Korean Job Discussion Forums

[yogurtpooh2]

Hi. Can you please share your methodology and format behind TOEFL speaking?
I have always tried to do the independent part in groups and picked random students to deliver one directly to me and the class.

Recently, a new teacher challenged me about my format of giving two reasons with supporting details.

For example, if the question was, "What is your most valuable procession and why?"

My expected response would follow this format:
"My most valuable procession would be my laptop for two reasons. First, it is quite expensive. Anything with a lot of money is highly valued to me. Being one of the top brands makes it highly sought after by the public. If I lost it I would be devastated.
Secondly, I am able to use it for entertainment purposes. If I am bored, I can go on my laptop and surf the web for news. In addition, I can watch movies, play online games, and even video chat with my friends from abroad.
And these are the reasons why my laptop is my most valued procession."

The other teacher challenged me that giving two reasons is wrong and that saying first and second is also wrong. I was under the impression that with independent speaking, there really wasn't much of a format and that it's more about clarity and grammar. The other teacher suggests memorization of sentences like scripts instead.

Please share your thoughts. Thanks.

[globusmonkey]

The success I've had with TOEFL Speaking has been to use an answer template that guides them through the response. You have the students remember an ordered format for each questions type (which can be broken down into Independent and Integrated types), making sure they use specific reasons with clear examples. I don't see why saying first and second would be a problem, as that is how most English speakers state their reasons. Memorization of answer format (such as always restating the question with their answer at the beginning) works well with Korean students, but having them memorize specific sentences seems like overkill since there are many possible questions students will see on the test. Give them an explanation of how each question has a definite answer structure, which they can memorize, then teach them to use their current language abilities to provide the information. This approach worked well with all the students I taught, producing higher scores across the board, as it breaks down the "mystery of TOEFL answers" into block answers. Use the grading rubric and think about the information requested in the questions to design your formats, and try to keep them as simple as possible. Good luck!

[yogurtpooh2]

Yes, I already use a template for integrated speaking and most of my students are doing well.

The other teacher said that only beginners teach the first/second method of two reasoning and details to support the reasoning.

he said something about 7 sentences and giving only one reason with a lot of support. He claims that my way is wrong and his way is right.

Do you think my response example I wrote about the most valuable procession is okay?

Thanks.

[Seon-bee]

Using scripts and restating the question is a very common tactic. It works well with low level students. Unfortunately, on the actual TOEFL test, they'll only muster up to a middle of the road score at best because raters know they're not actually speaking independently, just parroting a script. Book publishers use crap examples and don't know what the difference between a 1 and a 5 rating.

I think templates make for good practice, especially for low and intermediate speakers needing to develop fluency and clarity of ideas. But on the real test, there's NO TIME to restate the question and be all formal, adding concluding remarks at the end, etc.

So, for a real test, my advice to low to average students--go with the script/template, especially if they're nervous. But advanced students needing top scores should follow the advice of your colleague and stick to 1 reason and go to town justifying their reasons.

[globusmonkey]

[yogurtpooh2]

I'm just talking about the independent questions here. He seems to believe that giving 2 reasons is wrong and that one reason with a lot of support is better.
He said something about using 7 sentences. There's a 7 things you gotta say? I don't really understand it nor do I really want to talk to him about it.

Does anyone think what I'm doing is wrong?

[Zyzyfer]

[yogurtpooh2]

Yeah, it's a little funny because this guy took over my classes for a week when I was on vacation and he recently was just hired too. He comes in and says I'm a beginner even though I was with my academy since the beginning. He was animate about how independent speaking should only have one reason and to build off of that one reason. Two reasons will not get a high score he says.

He claims there's a magical format and scripts that the students must learn. He claims that he has all the test questions before hand and just gives it to the students and makes them learn his own format which comprises of 7 sentences.

My boss later told me that in Korean academies it's so competitive that people try to make a big scene on the first day to establish their place. It's hilarious because I'm well regarded as the most popular teacher at the academy. Lol.

[Seon-bee]

I've got speaking and writing samples from ETS illustrating various ratings as well as rubrics for rating. That was for training purposes and used REAL submissions from past tests.

And NO--7 sentences is not a golden unwritten rule to get a perfect score. That's called blowin' smoke, my friend. Also, limiting one's topic is not necessary either.

[globusmonkey]

In classic western rhetoric, using multiple reasons to define your answer is the norm. Also, if you are teaching the preference question, discussing why you think the other option is a bad one is a higher form of linguistic argument, as it uses comparison and negation. I think the other teacher is trying to intimidate you a bit, for the reasons stated above, unless he can back up his claim with specific rubric/score-based information. It is always useful to keep an open mind to different methods, as long as they work. At the end of the day, do your own research to find what works best with your students (which you are doing - kudos), and feel free to ignore those who force their opinions onto others.

[mandrews1985]

I couldnt agree more with globusmonkey to be honest, spot on response.

First of all, I have taught TOEFL for the last 2 years and utilizing frameworks (for all 6 types) is key for a well rounded response. As globusmonkey explained they help the lower level students to become familiar with how they should structure their response, and it gives the higher level students more time to focus on the little things that could be the difference between a 3 and a 4 score.

Secondly, memorising scripts for all the questions available is a ridiculous notion, though I can imagine why a few may attempt that. Although with all the possible questions that could come up it seems nearly impossible that you would get through them all, memorized in time for when they take the test. Leaving the students with zero knowledge of how to build a response that they are unprepared for.

In conclusion, I feel you should ignore your coworker and carry on regardless. At the end of the day, you're at the very least enabling the students to think of their own ideas, and though they may not be perfect responses, grammatically (compared to memorized scripts) youre enabling the students to think for themselves and express their own thoughts, on a varied of subjects, which helps you get to know them better too.

Specifically to the OP, I'd consider incorporating (for your older students/higher level students) a peer evaluation system, so if the students are in groups of 3 or 4, get the other group to explain where they can improve next time and where they excelled. (It can be difficult to get the students to do this, i find that students don't like to be critical of other students in Korea, but as long as they keep it positive, it does work)

For what it's worth I have seen 1 reason responses get very high scores in TOEFL too, but comparatively 2 equally weighted reasons in a well thought out structure more often than not trumps it.

[YTMND]

What do you guys mean by scripts? I have done some TOEFL teaching, and there seems to be sections on vocabulary words alone, reading excerpts based on school subjects rather than chat topics/discussions (which is what I would think "speaking" would consist of), and then the notorious mock college situations where you listen to lectures and conversations that might take place on campus.

Where do the scripts come in, and what are they about? I use sentence patterns loosely in dialogues for those who want to work on basic to intermediate daily conversation. However, with TOEFL, it seems more multiple choice based problems.

[schwa]

[Mw182006]

[mandrews1985]