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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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 Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:23 am Post subject: |
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| HighHopes wrote: |
Since I can't legally do it I guess I don't have 50 students.
But if I could I guess I would have
4 groups of moms ( 4 , 4 , 4 , 3 )
1 group of babies ( 6 )
1 mon and son ( 2 )
4 groups of 4 ( 16 )
2 singles ( 2 )
3 groups of 2 ( 6 )
1 group of 3 ( 3 )
I guess it would take about a year to get that many. Now since two of the students may own piano schools and one student owns a kids cafe all of which are centered in one apartment complex with 5000 apartments.
I think it could happen, Don't you??  |
With the proper visa & start up funds as well as a solid base of operating funds...sure. |
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Rocktek
Joined: 17 Dec 2009
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:17 am Post subject: |
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One thing people won't tell you here, is how the Koreans do it.
They just start the business, with no legal process aside from renting the space, and see how it goes first, THEN, if it makes money, they will do all the necessarily work to "legitimize" themselves.
I've seen countless businesses (including some small English schools run by foreigners) start up this way.
I find that Koreans choose to "opt out" of "playing by the rules" from time to time, as it suits them.
How many "fly by night" Summer/Winter camps have you heard of that run completely afoul of the law? It's a "calculated business risk" in Korean thinking. If they get caught, they'll just pay the fine (and still make a profit), only to do it again at the next available opportunity.
There's a long list of things that are illegal here, but "it matters not if you don't get caught".
Just ask the locals. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| Rocktek wrote: |
One thing people won't tell you here, is how the Koreans do it.
They just start the business, with no legal process aside from renting the space, and see how it goes first, THEN, if it makes money, they will do all the necessarily work to "legitimize" themselves.
I've seen countless businesses (including some small English schools run by foreigners) start up this way.
I find that Koreans choose to "opt out" of "playing by the rules" from time to time, as it suits them.
How many "fly by night" Summer/Winter camps have you heard of that run completely afoul of the law? It's a "calculated business risk" in Korean thinking. If they get caught, they'll just pay the fine (and still make a profit), only to do it again at the next available opportunity.
There's a long list of things that are illegal here, but "it matters not if you don't get caught".
Just ask the locals. |
Difference being Koreans are not foreign workers in Korea on a sponsored visa... |
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HighHopes
Joined: 05 Apr 2013
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| Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:31 am Post subject: |
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Again thank you all for your time and information!!
New questions
What is the limit of E-2 visas a hagwon can apply for?
How much actual work is involved in getting and maintaining an E-2 visa for the hagwon?
What is the deal with this �private contractor� distinction?
Can a Korean language hagwon apply for an E-2 visa?
Can a children�s hagwon just start teaching adults if they want to?
What is the minimum hours, pay, benefits, ect a hagwon must offer to be able to apply for an E-2 visa?
What kinds of duties other than teaching can an E-2 visa holder be issued a visa for?
Teacher training? Material development?
Sorry to ask so many questions but I have no one else to ask. My last boss, over 4 years, died of cancer and the new owner is not interested in helping me.
Thanks again,
HighHopes |
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big_fella1
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:20 am Post subject: |
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| HighHopes wrote: |
Again thank you all for your time and information!!
New questions
What is the limit of E-2 visas a hagwon can apply for?
How much actual work is involved in getting and maintaining an E-2 visa for the hagwon?
What is the deal with this �private contractor� distinction?
Can a Korean language hagwon apply for an E-2 visa?
Can a children�s hagwon just start teaching adults if they want to?
What is the minimum hours, pay, benefits, ect a hagwon must offer to be able to apply for an E-2 visa?
What kinds of duties other than teaching can an E-2 visa holder be issued a visa for?
Teacher training? Material development?
Sorry to ask so many questions but I have no one else to ask. My last boss, over 4 years, died of cancer and the new owner is not interested in helping me.
Thanks again,
HighHopes |
I'm not an expert so I may be corrected but here goes.
1. Depends on the size of the hagwon, the bigger the registered floorspace the more E2 visas they can sponsor.
2. I know the difficult thing for my friend was registering as a hagwon.
3. Independent contractors (IC) aren't employees. The only legal way to do this is to pay per student but the enforcement is slack. Your situation sounds like you would be a legit IC this means you would pay 100% of pension and health insurance AND the E2 is a visa for employees, so you shouldn't be able to get one. It does happen.
4. I don't think so but I'm not 100% sure.
5. Yes but no adults would attend a childrens institute remember there's a prestige to where you study English. Also the big adult chains except WSI loss lead on adult classes to get more TOEIC students, you can't compete.
6.not sure pretty sure that the only thing immi cares about is that you will pay the airfare for the person you sponsor home if they can't.
7. E2 only teaching in the building/s your sponsor company has.
8. I don't know. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:59 am Post subject: |
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| HighHopes wrote: |
| New questions |
| HighHopes wrote: |
| What is the limit of E-2 visas a hagwon can apply for? |
There is no limit. If a school suddenly started applying for hundreds, Immigration might notice and ask questions, but there is no limit.
| HighHopes wrote: |
| How much actual work is involved in getting and maintaining an E-2 visa for the hagwon? |
There are many rules to be a legally registered school under the hogwan status with the Education Office: total floor space, classroom size, blackboards and whiteboards, fire extinguishers, record keeping, attendance at annual training seminars, bathrooms, even types of desks can be prohibited by the Education Office.
Once approved as a school licensed to teach English, the E2 visa paperwork filed at Immigration and the Education office is far simpler.
| HighHopes wrote: |
| What is the deal with this �private contractor� distinction? |
It is perfectly legal to be an Idependent Contractor as an E2 teacher. The IC status is from the tax office. Immigration grants the visa which only requires a sponsor and a means of support, they have no say in the IC vs Employee matter. Under tax office rules in Korea at the present time, E2 teachers are treated like any other individual and can be ICs as teachers.
It is legal to be paid hourly or a fixed monthly amount as an IC. It is legal to work at a single location as an IC.
If these things were not legal, someone somewhere would be able to post a law or rule but there is none. Somewhere there would be a case where some school was charged with a violation of this figment of Dave's posters' imaginations. Just like there is no law saying when you can use the toilet, there is no law that impinges on the right of E2 teachers to work as ICs. It is, however, a bad idea for most E2s. Many things that are bad for you are legal.
| HighHopes wrote: |
| Can a Korean language hagwon apply for an E-2 visa? |
A hogwan has to be registered to teach the language in question: If the school registers to teach Chinese, they can hire Chinese language E2 teachers etc.
| HighHopes wrote: |
| Can a children�s hagwon just start teaching adults if they want to? |
I assume you mean a hogwan licensed and registered to teach English to children. Answer: Yes.
| HighHopes wrote: |
| What is the minimum hours, pay, benefits, ect a hagwon must offer to be able to apply for an E-2 visa? |
There are no written restrictions for the E2 visa in hours, pay, benefits per se at the Immigration Office for granting the E2.
If the sponsor does not offer enough money or other means of support for the applicant to live on it is likely the E2 visa will be denied.
Outside of Immigration and the actual granting of the E2 visa: If the E2 visa holder is sponsored as an employee, then minimum wage for the contracted hours, plus required employee benefits: Pension and Health Insurance are required as for any employee. If the E2 visa holder is sponsored as an IC, then IC rules would apply. The IC must legally register to pay their own Pension and Health Insurance.
| HighHopes wrote: |
What kinds of duties other than teaching can an E-2 visa holder be issued a visa for?
Teacher training? Material development?
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Anything that could relate to teaching (helping others learn) the target language is allowed, so yes to teacher training and material development: written, audio, video materials, etc, as well as sundry duties related or necessary to operation of a school. |
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big_fella1
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| HighHopes wrote: |
| What is the deal with this �private contractor� distinction? |
It is perfectly legal to be an Idependent Contractor as an E2 teacher. The IC status is from the tax office. Immigration grants the visa which only requires a sponsor and a means of support, they have no say in the IC vs Employee matter. Under tax office rules in Korea at the present time, E2 teachers are treated like any other individual and can be ICs as teachers.
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So you keep sprouting but you are yet to substantiate this with proof.
A lack of enforcement does not mean that something is legal.
If it was legal you would provide a link and you haven't. I wish you would tell me how you work because if a business owner I'd know why you sprout this myth, if you're an employee you're a hypocrite and if you're an IC I really want to help you get the money you're owed. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:48 am Post subject: |
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| big_fella1 wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
| HighHopes wrote: |
| What is the deal with this �private contractor� distinction? |
It is perfectly legal to be an Idependent Contractor as an E2 teacher. The IC status is from the tax office. Immigration grants the visa which only requires a sponsor and a means of support, they have no say in the IC vs Employee matter. Under tax office rules in Korea at the present time, E2 teachers are treated like any other individual and can be ICs as teachers.
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So you keep sprouting but you are yet to substantiate this with proof. |
There is no link to provide when there is no rule.
There is no rule about when you can use the toilet and there is no link to this absence of a rule. Take a logic class.
| big_fella1 wrote: |
| I wish you would tell me how you work because if a business owner I'd know why you sprout this myth, if you're an employee you're a hypocrite and if you're an IC I really want to help you get the money you're owed. |
Actually, I might ask you that.
You have provided misinformation to a lot of newbies who are coming to Korea for the first time. They rely on your bad information and assume that no matter what their contract says, they will end up getting the national pension and national health insurance because you told them (wongly) that it's the law.
But, it's not the law.
So, relying on your bad info, they come to Korea, get screwed and have no recourse.
Do you pay them?
My intent is to help newbies avoid IC contracts altogether and to help them understand that they should not expect to get National Health Insurance, National Pension and a proper Income Tax withholding rate after they arrive if it's not in their contracts. ... Because, if they have legit IC contracts, they won't win; and even if they have employee contracts with bad terms, it's a big, costly battle, and like all legal battles, even when you win you are seldom made whole.
So, my advice is to reject contracts as ICs or those that are unclear but seem to be ICs:
** Watch out for:
No health ins or private health ins,
No national pension,
3.3% Income tax.
Be aware that the minimum IC income tax rate is 3.3% but most E2 teachers should have withholding under 2%. (Korea has a progressive income tax.) However, some schools, public schools and accountants are confused and think the 3.3% rate applies to all E2 teachers, so this doesn't always mean it's an IC contract, although it is not the correct withholding rate.
Also be aware that if your contract calls for an Income Tax withholding rate above 3.3% (some contacts say 4%, 5% etc), unless you have a very high income for a beginning E2 teacher, this is a big red flag warning.
check your withholding here: http://www.nts.go.kr/eng/help/help_52.asp
So, BigFella. Why do you give such bad information? What do you get out of it?
If I assumed that you were clever enough, and if I were to make suppositions without evidence, I could speculate that you are a hogwan owner who uses IC contracts and wants newbies to rely on the bad information that they can go ahead and sign an IC contract and get it all sorted out when they get to Korea. Then when you get the suckers to your school it's too late. They're stuck. They're screwed. And you are laughing all the way to the bank.
Don't worry, I won't make any such assumptions about you. |
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big_fella1
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| Don't worry, I won't make any such assumptions about you. |
OP, sorry to derail your thread, this is an ongoing dispute between ontheway and myself.
ontheway I work at a university and I have had 2 hagwons successfully screw me over when I arrived here and I swore never again, unfortunately I listened to people like you and accepted my screwing over because I didn't know any better. I'm currently working towards leaving Korea, as management in an ESL setting would generally go against my beliefs and principles. To be fair its not just ESL a large Korean chaebol I taught at was pulling scams and firing workers just before 2 years to prevent them getting regular employment status.
I am passionate about this as my wife worked in a hagwon for 10 years, her employer was pulling the IC scam and wasn't even paying retirement allowance. This employer stole 20 million won from my family, plus health insurance, plus pension but my wife refused to do anything about or cooperate with the lawyer I knew. It hurt me deeply, and I want to stop these shoddy employment practices.
Fortunately all of this will be academic as President Park Geun-Hye has announced she is cracking down on the black economy. When this happened in Australia Contractors could only be classed contractors if they had more than 2 sources of income. The scams almost up.
If anyone out there is an IC, I will help you claim what you're entitled too.
As for ontheway, I've declared my interests, the least you could do is declare yours. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| big_fella1 wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
| Don't worry, I won't make any such assumptions about you. |
OP, sorry to derail your thread, this is an ongoing dispute between ontheway and myself.
ontheway I work at a university and I have had 2 hagwons successfully screw me over when I arrived here and I swore never again. I'm currently working towards leaving Korea, as management in an ESL setting would generally go against my beliefs and principles. To be fair its not just ESL a large Korean chaebol I taught at was pulling scams and firing workers just before 2 years to prevent them getting regular employment status.
I am passionate about this as my wife worked in a hagwon for 10 years, her employer was pulling the IC scam and wasn't even paying retirement allowance. This employer stole 20 million won from my family, plus health insurance, plus pension but my wife refused to do anything about or cooperate with the lawyer I knew. It hurt me deeply, and I want to stop these shoddy employment practices.
Fortunately all of this will be academic as President Park Geun-Hye has announced she is cracking down on the black economy. When this happened in Australia Contractors could only be classed contractors if they had more than 2 sources of income. The scams almost up.
If anyone out there is an IC, I will help you claim what you're entitled too.
As for ontheway, I've declared my interests, the least you could do is declare yours, but you won't as your behaviour is that of a cur. |
I gave you the information. I'm an E2 teacher and I want to make sure that newbies coming to Korea aren't screwed because they believed your incorrect information. It's clear from your story that you are too biased to see the truth.
It's legal to be an IC as an E2 teacher. It is legal for nearly half of all working Koreans to fall under this large category of work.
The fact that you've suffered what you feel is a great loss obviously has clouded your ability to see reality in this situation. Ironically, your wife may be or may have been entitled to severance even as an IC if she worked over the minimum required hours. But if she worked for 10 years without complaint or changing jobs, she really can't blame her boss - not after a year or two. She knew and stayed willingly.
You claim to want to help people, so stop misleading them so they can watch out in advance of becoming a legal IC. No one who has signed a clearly stated IC contract as an E2 teacher has ever come back to claim that they got any pension or health insurance money after the fact from a job they worked. The ones who collect are the ones with "employee" contracts. So, tell the truth to the newbies: If you want National Pension and National Health Insurance sign a contract that states you are an "employee" and spells out that you will be covered for these as well as the correct 2% or less tax rate. If you sign an IC contract you will be out of luck. This will help them.
The new Korean President may crack down on the underground economy, but Independent Contractors are, for the most part, not part of the underground economy. Most report their income and sign up for Pension and Health Insurance. These ICs or "business income earners" along with small business owners and their family members who work for them make up nearly half of the workforce. Don't expect her to kill the Korean economy because you are upset and holding a grudge.
The most important elements of the underground economy in Korea are all the street vendors, trash pickers and recyclers, who operate on cash, owners of very small businesses and their families, and small time tradesmen and casual laborers - all Korean ICs who fail to report a share of their cash transactions. These are the people on the bottom who would be crushed under a true crackdown. There would be massive unemployment and a recession. Of course the handful of giant Korean jaebols would benefit. By eliminating the cheap competition they could raise prices even more and still increase sales volume.
It's funny what you wish for out of bitterness, BigFella1. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:20 am Post subject: |
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| What's the investor visa up to now? Is it bring in half a million bucks? Was 50 grand at one time. Most of us can't get the points and get blocked by the bureacracy for that other F visa. As for working for your friend, he should read that F visa group. It could probably answer questions better than here. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:23 am Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| big_fella1 wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
| Don't worry, I won't make any such assumptions about you. |
OP, sorry to derail your thread, this is an ongoing dispute between ontheway and myself.
ontheway I work at a university and I have had 2 hagwons successfully screw me over when I arrived here and I swore never again. I'm currently working towards leaving Korea, as management in an ESL setting would generally go against my beliefs and principles. To be fair its not just ESL a large Korean chaebol I taught at was pulling scams and firing workers just before 2 years to prevent them getting regular employment status.
I am passionate about this as my wife worked in a hagwon for 10 years, her employer was pulling the IC scam and wasn't even paying retirement allowance. This employer stole 20 million won from my family, plus health insurance, plus pension but my wife refused to do anything about or cooperate with the lawyer I knew. It hurt me deeply, and I want to stop these shoddy employment practices.
Fortunately all of this will be academic as President Park Geun-Hye has announced she is cracking down on the black economy. When this happened in Australia Contractors could only be classed contractors if they had more than 2 sources of income. The scams almost up.
If anyone out there is an IC, I will help you claim what you're entitled too.
As for ontheway, I've declared my interests, the least you could do is declare yours, but you won't as your behaviour is that of a cur. |
I gave you the information. I'm an E2 teacher and I want to make sure that newbies coming to Korea aren't screwed because they believed your incorrect information. It's clear from your story that you are too biased to see the truth.
It's legal to be an IC as an E2 teacher. It is legal for nearly half of all working Koreans to fall under this large category of work.
The fact that you've suffered what you feel is a great loss obviously has clouded your ability to see reality in this situation. Ironically, your wife may be or may have been entitled to severance even as an IC if she worked over the minimum required hours. But if she worked for 10 years without complaint or changing jobs, she really can't blame her boss - not after a year or two. She knew and stayed willingly.
You claim to want to help people, so stop misleading them so they can watch out in advance of becoming a legal IC. No one who has signed a clearly stated IC contract as an E2 teacher has ever come back to claim that they got any pension or health insurance money after the fact from a job they worked. The ones who collect are the ones with "employee" contracts. So, tell the truth to the newbies: If you want National Pension and National Health Insurance sign a contract that states you are an "employee" and spells out that you will be covered for these as well as the correct 2% or less tax rate. If you sign an IC contract you will be out of luck. This will help them.
The new Korean President may crack down on the underground economy, but Independent Contractors are, for the most part, not part of the underground economy. Most report their income and sign up for Pension and Health Insurance. These ICs or "business income earners" along with small business owners and their family members who work for them make up nearly half of the workforce. Don't expect her to kill the Korean economy because you are upset and holding a grudge.
The most important elements of the underground economy in Korea are all the street vendors, trash pickers and recyclers, who operate on cash, owners of very small businesses and their families, and small time tradesmen and casual laborers - all Korean ICs who fail to report a share of their cash transactions. These are the people on the bottom who would be crushed under a true crackdown. There would be massive unemployment and a recession. Of course the handful of giant Korean jaebols would benefit. By eliminating the cheap competition they could raise prices even more and still increase sales volume.
But most of these folks don't make money. SO it won't reaise much tax revenue anyhow.
It's funny what you wish for out of bitterness, BigFella1. |
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big_fella1
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:33 am Post subject: |
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ontheway did go to the trouble to provide a link which was a nice change, a tax calculator proves there are legal IC's we know that.
ontheway seems to miss the point that the government is cracking down on the black economy at the same time as they are expanding the social safety net to help the poorest.
Here is an article academic research of lawbreaking by businesses using independent contractors.
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/paaf/paaf/2008/00000081/00000003/art00004 |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| big_fella1 wrote: |
ontheway did go to the trouble to provide a link which was a nice change, a tax calculator proves there are legal IC's we know that.
ontheway seems to miss the point that the government is cracking down on the black economy at the same time as they are expanding the social safety net to help the poorest.
Here is an article academic research of lawbreaking by businesses using independent contractors.
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/paaf/paaf/2008/00000081/00000003/art00004 |
Bigfella knows, or at least he should know, that when there is no rule about something, there can be no link to the absence of a rule.
However, his citation above - he has linked on another thread to the same article on a different site - is discussed at: http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=227404 and is reproduced below along with one other reference provided by bigfella that also refutes bigfella.
| ontheway wrote: |
According the article itself, the factors that bigfella thinks prove his point actually disprove his point.
There are no rules and you cannot automatically say who is an IC in Korea, just as in the US. The factors are really just guidelines. In Korea nearly all of the factors must be met to get the courts to force a ruling that you are an employee and not a contractor. One important guideline: If your contract is for one year or less in Korea today, you are considered "irregular" and it is legal to be an IC. If you have agreed to be an independent contractor the courts will not overturn that choice.
| Quote: |
These factors are used by the Korean Supreme Court to determine if one is an �employee� under the Korean LSA.
The factors are not weighted equally by courts.
Please note that these factors are not weighted equally by courts and all factors are not required to be met for an independent contractor to be deemed an employee under the LSA. An answer in the affirmative to anyone one of the factors increases the risk to the employer |
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In short, none of the factors alone or in combination are determinant.
So, bigfella has proven himself wrong.
Nice reference bigfella. This also proves what I've been saying:
| jstor article referenced by bigfella wrote: |
The share of irregular workers in the total labor force in Korea has grown from 43.4% in 1996 to 52.7% in 2005. |
This article explains that contract workers with contract periods of 1 year or less can be legally classified as irregular workers.
The article also explains that it is a matter of government policy to encourage the use of irregular workers (ICs) in order to maintain full employment and this includes the use of loose standards and easy exceptions and exemptions from employment regulations regarding who is an employee - making the ICs legal.
The article goes on to explain that employment relationships are "ill defined" in Korea, meaning basically that there are no rules. There is no transparent and workable definition of irregular employment (ICs) in Korea at the present time.
(An interesting language note that the Korean writers or more likely, their translators, are confused about the difference between "avoidance" which is legal, and "evasion" which is illegal, when discussing compliance issues and therefore make an incorrect use of the word legal, for example when explaining that businesses with 5 workers are exempt from the laws (meaning legally able to avoid participation, and no longer true) the authors call such avoidance "illegal" which shows a failure to comprehend the correct use of English in this paper. Obviously if you are exempt from the law, then non-enrollment is legal.)
As I've repeated, over half of all workers in Korea are in the group of irregular workers that includes what we think of as ICs. The Korean government and the courts are not about to destroy the economy by upsetting this arrangement that keeps the people working, keeps the economy moving and keeps bread on the tables of the majority of Korean families.
The cited article supports my points:
1) It is legal to be an IC in Korea at the present time for a majority of workers including E2 teachers.
2) There is no definition that would allow anyone including bigfella the ability to claim who is an IC.
3) Enforcement of each element of this process lies with a different department (Immigration is not on the list.)
National Health Ins regulation - the National Health Insurance office
Pension regulation - the Pension office
Unemployment and Workman's comp regulation - the Labor office
Tax compliance and enforcement (including determination of IC status) - the Tax office
4) The majority of workers in Korea today are irregular workers or ICs
5) This sector of the economy is too important for the Korean government to substantially change the use of ICs. In fact government policy is to encourage the use of ICs except in the case of very large employers (many hundreds or thousands of workers).
| big_fella1 wrote: |
| A further note is if you accept an IC agreement with an E2 visa, you are breaking immigration law as well, an E2 is an employment visa. Luckily for you immigration does not care to enforce this. |
This is bigfella's wet dream.
There is no Immigration rule that you have to be an employee to be issued an E2 visa.
No one has ever found or linked such a law, rule, regulation or policy.
Immigration reads contracts every day with the words "Independent Contractor" boldly written in the first paragraph of the contract and grant an E2 visa. They do this because they cannot refuse based on whether the individual will be an employee or an IC. There is nothing in the law that lets Immigration deny an E2 visa for ICs ... so, they do not. |
One more interesting admission from the author of bigfella's article. He admits that Social Security type programs in Korea and other nations have been set up to enrich the politically powerful, big business, unions and other government insiders, that they harm the economy, cause unemployment and hurt the poor and lower classes. Yet foolishly, the intent of the article is to encourage expansion of such programs.
But the US social security program which has expanded to cover nearly the whole working population is recognized as a wealth transfer from the poor to the middle and upper classes and from black to white and the US social security program alone over the last 60 years has prevented the creation of over 100 million jobs around the globe. |
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big_fella1
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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Ontheway thanks for providing a source for your 100 million jobs not created claim.
Maybe its true, how can I know without any evidence?
Its not often you hear graduates pulling information from their butts without evidence unless they're running for elected office. Are you? |
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