Korean Job Discussion Forums

[caulice]

I've been reading through this forum for a while now, and am finally at the point where it seems that the questions that I would like to ask are just too nuanced to be answered by further anonymous research.

I was focused on Korea, and decided on a hagwon in one of the recommended small cities mostly on the southern coast, but now I have China to ponder as well.

A bit about me: I've got a BA in english lit, an online tesol course, an online teyl course, and no real teaching experience. I like kids, but the teyl course made it clear to me that I don't want to teach kids. I enjoy more mature ideas and content too much (the tesol course was easier for me).

I like the idea of having a lax schedule in China, in part because it will be possible to teach outside of that. I like the idea of teaching at a vocational college, where they will just say "go teach", and I can try different things out. For me this is actually about professional development: I think that given space I'll do better than I would do in a, possibly, more claustrophobic environment.

If people are stressed around me, I tend to soak that up. I want to learn the business, but don't like the idea of a boss and parents breathing down my neck.

What kind of person gets on well in China, as opposed to Korea?

Why do some people choose China over Korea (temperament wise)?

I am hard working (a perfectionist who will put a lot of passion and care into lesson plans), self-motivated, but laid back. The thought of easing my way into this, in my own way, is appealing. If there's a lot to learn from an experience at a Korean hagwon teaching kids, then this is another important factor to me. It all depends on how a person learns, and what environment is amenable to that learning process. I don't want to teach kids, but am also not ready to explain complex grammar. A Chinese college seems like a good training ground for me (in terms of learning how to give the desired instruction).

More than anything, I am wondering about what the actual teaching experience will be like in either situation. I'd love to be able to use multi-media and be creative with the lesson plans as far as is allowed.

What is the difference in vibe? I know how to search google, but there isn't a lot that deals with my specific feelings about these options.

Saving money is secondary (though still important in the long run) to how much I can get on well, learn, and grow confidence. I realize that this is all pretty vague. It would be great to hear any of your impressions.

[ttompatz]

Do you want the good news or the bad news first?

The good news is that you can get a job in china just about as easily as stepping off of a curb.

The bad news is that unis, vocational colleges. etc usually pay CRAP.
You can say that money is secondary but it really isn't.
Take a job in a college and make 3000 rmb per month.
Take a job in a language center, put up with the parents and kids and make 10k.

Put the self actualization ideas away and focus on the job at hand; getting the best job possible with your minimal qualifications.

You can dig out the rest of the nonsense AFTER you figure out which way is up, how long is a piece of string and where the bear shlt in the woods.

.

[mayorhaggar]

I used to hate the idea of teaching kids, I didn't want to play babysitter all day long, but I wanted to go to Korea, and as in much of the rest of the world (including China to a degree) teaching kids is where the jobs are here. Fortunately I found that I actually LOVE teaching kids, it's super rewarding, they're enthusiastic, and their minds are wired for learning. Teaching adults can be tricky, they will follow directions better but can get bored by just about everything, especially if they worked all day. Basically don't be sure that you would hate teaching kids until you've try it, maybe try doing some volunteer tutoring in your town to see how you like it, if you think the adult ESL market wouldn't work out for you.

[rockbilly]

Hi there, OP.

I taught several years in Korea before then doing about 4 in China, so you'll want to hear my two cents, right?

First, I'll let you know that those years in China soured me on the place. I'm now back in Korea, though not teaching (in business), and SO much happier here.

On the positive side, YES, the relaxed schedule and no-expectations at a Chinese college or uni may come as a very welcome change after Korea.

Points to consider though:

1) You'll be locked in. Literally. The Chinese put a wall around everything--at the most extreme, they famously did it to their entire country. At my first Chinese uni job, there was a wrought-iron wall around the on-campus housing complex for foreign teachers, with a single gate that was locked as early as 9 pm. Beyond that, the entire campus was walled (as are ALL Chinese campuses) and locked up at around 10 pm. Theoretically, you could alert or WAKE UP a sleeping guard and get in or out. In practice, on the worst occasion, I was locked INSIDE the campus but OUTSIDE the housing complex at 3 am and had nowhere to go. Ouch. Prison-break fantasies will drive you mad.

2) Location, location, location. You'll be offered a job in Nanjing, let's say, at the "Nanjing University of XYZ," but in reality the campus is a solid 90 minutes' traveling time outside the city, in wild country beyond suburbia. Yes, you can travel into the city by bus/subway/taxi, likely as not in some combination, but that's time-consuming, and God help you if you arrive home after 10 pm one night to find that you're locked out of your home.

3) Don't count on the Chinese to honor a contract. They promise you 6000 RMB a month, let's say. It's written into the contract. But come payday, where is your money? Where is your boss? Oh, he's "busy." VERY busy. Why are you asking for money? What's your problem? You want money? Why do you want money? You can't afford dinner? Don't worry, it's only 5 or 6 RMB for noodles in the canteen. The boss is busy. Maybe you'll get paid next week. Hurry now, it's getting late and you'll be locked out of your dorm if you don't run along!

On balance, I say don't bother with China. It's not a civilized country.

Korea is at least trying to be civilized. And that makes a H*LL of a difference!

Again, my two cents. Good luck to you!

[caulice]

Thanks very much to all for the feedback.

I think that I've researched myself out of wanting to go to Korea. I'll apply for jobs in both countries and take the best offer.

I really do not like the idea of living in a dorm. I've seen some posts where people speak of working at a uni or training college in China and having apartments. perhaps they meant walled in dorm. I like the idea of relying on public transportation to the extent described even less.

It's probably good advice to go to Korea so that I can learn up from down, and make decisions from there. I'll look into language institutes in China some more, see what the hours are and how things are likely to work out location wise (in terms of how far you are likely to live from where you work).

Still, there are these what-ifs. What if it is possible to find a job with a lax schedule in China that pays airfare and rent (am I dreaming?), and also find at least six hours of tutoring a week. with a minimal college salary and six hours of tutoring, I could be making very close to the 1.9 I'm likely to get in Korea. One totally uneducated calculation that I came up with, based on posts here, was that this would be:

China: 18 hours a week (12 hours college + 6 tutoring) = 1680$ or so.

Korea: 30-40 hour work week, for 1.9, or 1744$

Maybe this is very best case China scenario vs not so great case Korea scenario.

Put me straight, or ignore me because I'm totally ignorant. All that can be done is to start applying and see what happens.

[Guajiro]

[mayorhaggar]

Yep, with EPIK public school jobs in Korea you are contractually limited to 22 hours of teaching a week. You still have to stay at school until 5pm but at least you're not running around teaching all day and losing your voice.

[naturegirl321]

I started in China, this is my second time in Korea and I'm looking at going back to China. There are a couple reasons.

1. China's BIG, so less competition.
2. IELTS opps in CHina are much better than here.
3. Cost of living is lower there.
4. Job security.
5. Language, in my opinion, Chinese is much more useful for my daughter to learn, she could pick up Korean easily enough, but trying to "pick up" tens of thousands of Chinese characters simply ain't going to happen. Language for me> my Chinese is much better than my Korean.
6. Food, love Chinese food.
7. I found I liked the people more in China.
8. Equality. Here you've got E1, E2, F2, F4, F5, F6, etc, there you've got Z visas, whether you're married to a Chinese person or not, you're equal. Yes, I know about the D visa, but that's a whole other kettle of fish.

Like I said, this is all my opinion. Everyone's different. There are REALLY good jobs in China if you've got the quals and exp, I'm talking 3-4K usd (when most jobs pay 700 to 1000 usd, that would be like earning 8.8 mil in Korea) a month plus benefits. Few and far between, but if you can get them you're golden.

There's a decent number of posts on the China board about Korea vs CHina as well.