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Cigarette prices may go up
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World Traveler



Joined: 29 May 2009

PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 8:24 pm    Post subject: Cigarette prices may go up Reply with quote

Quote:
Tobacco prices have been frozen at the current 2,500 won (US$2.28 ) per pack for more than eight years. The health ministry earlier said that average cigarette prices need to be raised to 7,000 won per pack to reduce the country's smoking rate to what it called a desirable level.

http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/business/2013/05/05/91/0501000000AEN20130505000700320F.HTML

Awesome. This means less people will smoke (meaning less second hand smoke I'll have to breathe) and the Korean government will get more money. I'm totally in favor and think it can't happen fast enough.
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Aine1979



Joined: 20 Jan 2013
Location: Incheon

PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raising taxes on cigarettes seldom has a substantial impact on the number of smokers. For example, in the UK, cigarette prices have increased five fold in the last 15 years, and yet that, combined with a nation-wide indoor smoking ban, has seen only an approximate 5% drop in the number of smokers.

People simply switched from premium brands to ultra low priced brands, or hand rolling tobacco. What had a bigger impact on non-smokers exposure to second hand smoke was the smoking ban, so perhaps they should try the two combined.
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nicwr2002



Joined: 17 Aug 2011

PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it does have an impact, at least for teenagers who only get money from their parents. If ciagrettes were 7000 won a pack they may change their mind if they want to be able to do something else with the money their parents gave them. I don't think there are many places to get roll tobacco in Korea also, as that was one of the main things that my English friend wanted me to bring back from the States.

There will still be those people who will smoke no matter what though, but at least it will cut down of smokers overall.
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newb



Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They need to raise Soju price as well. Perhaps to 10k a bottle.
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optik404



Joined: 24 Jun 2008

PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This just means more Soju will be consumed.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It will only be a matter of time before cigarettes get priced into the black market back home. At which point you'll have people thrown in jail for growing or smoking illegal tobacco. As if our government isn't already bleeding enough money away on the drug war.

People who are simple minded enough to think that just throwing massive taxes on cigarettes will only lead to less smokers and it "covering the costs of smoking" are ignoring the law of unintended consequences. What initially seems like a benign idea, will turn into a source of addiction for government revenue and lead to eventual corruption. Not to mention when you raise the price on an addictive substance, one that is as hard as heroin to quit, you're just leading to those addicts making poor decisions and likelier to engage in bad behavior- from bad financial decisions, to lashing out in violence and anger, to theft and fraud. To say nothing of the lost revenue that comes from people no longer hopping into stores to buy smokes and also picking up a bottle of green tea, some gum, and some little knick-knack.

Quote:
If ciagrettes were 7000 won a pack they may change their mind if they want to be able to do something else with the money their parents gave them.


No, then they'll just steal them from daddy or someone else. Either that or they'll still spend the money on smokes and not spend it on something else like burgers or books.

Unless I'm wrong and teenagers say "I just won't smoke marijuana" rather than scraping up every last dime to get a couple grams of the finest kind bud and then deciding to get the rest of their money from mommy's purse or shoplifting.

After all, there's no group more known for rational decision making than teenagers.

The belief that you can tax people to prosperity and health is a baffling one.
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Stan Rogers



Joined: 20 Aug 2010

PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It will simply create a new business for organized crime. The government should focus on health education. That will be more effective if they really want to promote healthy living habits.
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sigmundsmith



Joined: 22 Nov 2007

PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:


People who are simple minded enough to think that just throwing massive taxes on cigarettes will only lead to less smokers and it "covering the costs of smoking" are ignoring the law of unintended consequences.


2010 Study in Australia about the consequences of increasing tax on tobacco:

https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2011/195/8/impact-2010-tobacco-tax-increase-australia-short-term-smoking-cessation

Conclusions:
Quote:
The tobacco tax increase was associated with a short-term increase in the rate of smoking cessation among NSW adult smokers and recent quitters, suggesting that regular increases in tobacco tax may further encourage quitting activity.


The following are responses from Tobacco companies (2008) to increase in taxes

http://www.tobaccofreekids.org/research/factsheets/pdf/0146.pdf
Quote:

The cigarette companies have even publicly admitted the effectiveness of tax increases to deter smoking in
their required filings with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission.

Philip Morris: Tax increases are expected to continue to have an adverse impact on sales of tobacco
products by our tobacco subsidiaries, due to lower consumption levels... [10-Q Report, November 3, 2008]

Lorillard Tobacco: We believe that increases in excise and similar taxes have had an adverse impact on
sales of cigarettes. In addition, we believe that future increases, the extent of which cannot be predicted,
could result in further volume declines for the cigarette industry, including Lorillard Tobacco... [10-Q
Report, November 4, 2008]

R.J. Reynolds: Together with manufacturers� price increases in recent years and substantial increases in
state and federal taxes on tobacco products, these developments have had and will likely continue to
have an adverse effect on the sale of tobacco products. [10-Q Report, October 24, 2008]


And a 2011 study on the effects of increased taxation across groups (teenagers, adults, ethnic and socioeconomic groups):

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3228562/

Quote:
For instance, increasing the price of cigarettes is a very effective policy tool for reducing smoking participation and consumption among youth, young adults and persons of low socioeconomic status.


So, I think your initial argument isn't valid with the wealth of data supporting the notion that an increase in tobacco tax does have an effect on consumption.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sigmundsmith wrote:
Steelrails wrote:


People who are simple minded enough to think that just throwing massive taxes on cigarettes will only lead to less smokers and it "covering the costs of smoking" are ignoring the law of unintended consequences.


2010 Study in Australia about the consequences of increasing tax on tobacco:

https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2011/195/8/impact-2010-tobacco-tax-increase-australia-short-term-smoking-cessation

Conclusions:
Quote:
The tobacco tax increase was associated with a short-term increase in the rate of smoking cessation among NSW adult smokers and recent quitters, suggesting that regular increases in tobacco tax may further encourage quitting activity.


The following are responses from Tobacco companies (2008) to increase in taxes

http://www.tobaccofreekids.org/research/factsheets/pdf/0146.pdf
Quote:

The cigarette companies have even publicly admitted the effectiveness of tax increases to deter smoking in
their required filings with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission.

Philip Morris: Tax increases are expected to continue to have an adverse impact on sales of tobacco
products by our tobacco subsidiaries, due to lower consumption levels... [10-Q Report, November 3, 2008]

Lorillard Tobacco: We believe that increases in excise and similar taxes have had an adverse impact on
sales of cigarettes. In addition, we believe that future increases, the extent of which cannot be predicted,
could result in further volume declines for the cigarette industry, including Lorillard Tobacco... [10-Q
Report, November 4, 2008]

R.J. Reynolds: Together with manufacturers� price increases in recent years and substantial increases in
state and federal taxes on tobacco products, these developments have had and will likely continue to
have an adverse effect on the sale of tobacco products. [10-Q Report, October 24, 2008]


And a 2011 study on the effects of increased taxation across groups (teenagers, adults, ethnic and socioeconomic groups):

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3228562/

Quote:
For instance, increasing the price of cigarettes is a very effective policy tool for reducing smoking participation and consumption among youth, young adults and persons of low socioeconomic status.


So, I think your initial argument isn't valid with the wealth of data supporting the notion that an increase in tobacco tax does have an effect on consumption.


That's exactly my point- you are only focused on lowering consumption. Not everything else that doesn't have to deal with consumption.

Making narcotics illegal likely decreases consumption. That isn't the issue with narcotic legislation. The issue is the unintended consequences that follow. The unintended consequences are not concerned with those that choose not to smoke, but rather those that continue to smoke and what likely behaviors they are to commit. What good is deterring 5-10% of the population from smoking if you turn 20% into committing a wide range of criminal acts?

Same with alcohol prohibition or excessive taxation.

In other words- you're thinking about this in theoretical academic terms. You aren't thinking about this as a criminal or addict. This is an issue you need to think of in the mindset of a criminal or addict. An addict doesn't think rationally and decide that since the price of cigs has risen 250% that they'll reduce their consumption. An addict just thinks of way to continue their present lifestyle while still consuming their substance. Such ideas often include criminal activity.
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augustine



Joined: 08 Sep 2012
Location: México

PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a closet smoker, but I hate being a smoker; it's a horrible real "drug" compared to falsely labeled "drugs" like marijuana which for some retarded reason remain illegal. Nicotine is a drug with essentially zero reward or value, that's driven up our asses simply because it's a "taxed drug", and it carries a serious death sentence. I'm not saying it should be illegal or untaxed, but a 2.7-7.0 raise on cigarettes prices? That's not going to happen here. It went from 2.5-2.7 for Marlboros last year, but I doubt they're going to all of a sudden create a +100% increase on cigarettes prices any time soon.
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Deja



Joined: 18 Mar 2011

PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IIRC, there is a very strict anti-smoking law (smoking ban in virtually all closed spaces except parts of restaurants specifically made for it) in S. Korea, but it is not adhered to at all.

Education won't help here. Taxes won't help. Making it illegal might do something.
Most people who smoke don't give a f*** about the rest of us (heck, they don't even care of their own health, why would they care for ours?).
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Weigookin74



Joined: 26 Oct 2009

PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Militant anti smokers are a bunch of collective whiners. As long as you're not blowing smoke in someone's face, then there's no problem. If folks want to smoke, let them. If they don't, then don't. There's already smoking bans inside most places, so what's the problem? If folks smoke outside, it's no one's business but theirs.
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atwood



Joined: 26 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Higher taxes work:


Quote:
One of the reasons for the support of increased cigarette taxes among public health officials is that many studies show that this leads to a decrease in smoking rates[citation needed]. The relationship between smoking rates and cigarette taxes follows the property of elasticity; the greater the amount of the tax increase, the fewer cigarettes that are bought and consumed.[16] This is especially prevalent amongst teenagers. For every ten percent increase in the price of a pack of cigarettes, youth smoking rates overall drop about seven percent.[17] This rate is also true amongst minorities and low income population smokers.[18] The rates of calls to quitting hot-lines are directly related to cigarette tax hikes. When Wisconsin raised its state cigarette tax to $1.00 per pack, the hot-line received a record of 20,000 calls in a two month time period versus its typical 9,000 calls annually.[19]

An analysis of smoking and cigarette tax rates in 1955 through 1964, prior to the Surgeon General�s first report and general antismoking sentiment, shows the same relationship between tax increases and declining smoking rates that are prevalent today, suggesting that popular attitudes towards smoking are not a confounding factor


In addition, this is not all the government is doing to reduce smoking. Besides the public place smoking bans, there are ad campaigns and of course the blurring out of all smoking in movies on TV and education in the schools.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

atwood wrote:
Higher taxes work:


Quote:
One of the reasons for the support of increased cigarette taxes among public health officials is that many studies show that this leads to a decrease in smoking rates[citation needed]. The relationship between smoking rates and cigarette taxes follows the property of elasticity; the greater the amount of the tax increase, the fewer cigarettes that are bought and consumed.[16] This is especially prevalent amongst teenagers. For every ten percent increase in the price of a pack of cigarettes, youth smoking rates overall drop about seven percent.[17] This rate is also true amongst minorities and low income population smokers.[18] The rates of calls to quitting hot-lines are directly related to cigarette tax hikes. When Wisconsin raised its state cigarette tax to $1.00 per pack, the hot-line received a record of 20,000 calls in a two month time period versus its typical 9,000 calls annually.[19]

An analysis of smoking and cigarette tax rates in 1955 through 1964, prior to the Surgeon General�s first report and general antismoking sentiment, shows the same relationship between tax increases and declining smoking rates that are prevalent today, suggesting that popular attitudes towards smoking are not a confounding factor


In addition, this is not all the government is doing to reduce smoking. Besides the public place smoking bans, there are ad campaigns and of course the blurring out of all smoking in movies on TV and education in the schools.


AGAIN, its not about just reducing smoking rates. It's about everything else besides reducing smoking, such as increasing crime and corruption and revenue dependency.
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rockbilly



Joined: 19 Mar 2013

PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 6:06 pm    Post subject: Cigarettes Are Good Reply with quote

Nicotine has been shown again and again, in controlled studies, to improve cognitive performance. Smokers suffer significantly less from neurological diseases, too.

Cigarettes have a life-enhancing and health-boosting value. That's why government demonizes them.
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