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mandrews1985
Joined: 12 Sep 2011
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 Posted: Sun May 05, 2013 5:50 pm Post subject: Leaving a school and letter of release |
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Previously I posted about having trouble at my current job. Today, I decided enough was enough. I am going to leave. My contract states that I must give 60 days notice, I'm ok with doing this.
So here's some information:
I did not recieve airfare because I was in country already.
The cost of my recuitment was 100,000 won (the school advertised the job personally, no recruiter).
With regards to why I am leaving, it's pretty simple, we are not a good match and I do think it's best for both parties if we go our seperate ways.
I'm unsure that the school will give me a letter of release. I believe they wont. However, I have evidence that the school have paid me late twice in two months.
If the school refuse to give me a letter of release (i will still complete the 60 days notice) will immigration let me switch visa to D10 while I search for work and then let me change sponsors once I have found work? My current ARC lasts till next March as does my E2 visa and I do want to stay in Korea.
If I can't get a LoR will the fact that they've been late paying me for 2 months help my case with immigration?
The 2 months late payments are not the reason I'm leaving, would I need to state the late pay in my letter of resignation for it to be taken serious by immigration. |
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Skippy
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Daejeon
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| Posted: Sun May 05, 2013 9:48 pm Post subject: Re: Leaving a school and letter of release |
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| Quote: |
]Previously I posted about having trouble at my current job. Today, I decided enough was enough. I am going to leave. My contract states that I must give 60 days notice, I'm ok with doing this.
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You are not legally obligated to give notice. Only give notice unless you get something out of it like a letter of release. No LOR, post dated or you run.
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So here's some information:
I did not recieve airfare because I was in country already.
The cost of my recuitment was 100,000 won (the school advertised the job personally, no recruiter). |
Great! Less excuses for a school to try and cheat you on last pay if you give notice.
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| With regards to why I am leaving, it's pretty simple, we are not a good match and I do think it's best for both parties if we go our seperate ways |
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And the school could think the opposite way. Be prepared for a fight!
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| I'm unsure that the school will give me a letter of release. I believe they wont. However, I have evidence that the school have paid me late twice in two months. |
How late is late. Day or two, no thing. 2 weeks or more, pretty serious.
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If the school refuse to give me a letter of release (i will still complete the 60 days notice) will immigration let me switch visa to D10 while I search for work and then let me change sponsors once I have found work? My current ARC lasts till next March as does my E2 visa and I do want to stay in Korea.
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No, immi will not likely let you transfer to a D-10. It does not matter if your ARC expires in March. You and/or the school are to notify immi when you quit or leave your job. Then from last day of work if lucky you have 30 days to get your ass out of Korea or get a D-10 (with LOR) or transfer (with LOR).
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If I can't get a LoR will the fact that they've been late paying me for 2 months help my case with immigration?
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Immigration does not care about late pay. The labor board might care but it has to have been more then 2 weeks. Even then that you have been paid, they might likely brush under the table.
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The 2 months late payments are not the reason I'm leaving, would I need to state the late pay in my letter of resignation for it to be taken serious by immigration. |
You can write anything in your resignation letter from late pay to you hate the children or want to kill the boss. You are not obligated to give one. Once again do not give notice, unless you get something from it. Giving notice is more likely going to be used as a way to cheat you out of pay. |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 12:59 am Post subject: |
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Leave the day after payday and consider China, Taiwan or Thailand.
You won't be working in Korea for the next year without a LOR under the current immigration policy.
Give 60 days notice and you can pretty much be assured that you won't get all your pay. (I suspect you may lose a minimum of a month's salary).
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mzeno
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 4:45 am Post subject: Re: Leaving a school and letter of release |
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[quote="Skippy]
Then from last day of work if lucky you have 30 days to get your ass out of Korea or get a D-10 (with LOR) or transfer (with LOR).
[quote]
What do you mean "if your lucky".? I'm in similar situation and just don't want to bother with it but I do want to stay a little more than 30 days after my last day of work. 2 days to be exact. Will that be a problem at the airport with IMMI officials or with retrieving pension? |
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Skippy
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Daejeon
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 6:48 am Post subject: Re: Leaving a school and letter of release |
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| mzeno wrote: |
Then from last day of work if lucky you have 30 days to get your ass out of Korea or get a D-10 (with LOR) or transfer (with LOR).
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What do you mean "if your lucky".? I'm in similar situation and just don't want to bother with it but I do want to stay a little more than 30 days after my last day of work. 2 days to be exact. Will that be a problem at the airport with IMMI officials or with retrieving pension? |
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Usually what happens is when a person quits they have to inform immigration within 14 days. Then immigration usually gives 30 days to wrap things up from last day of work. You try asking for a little extra. Likely will be given if you have a dated plane ticket. |
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mzeno
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 3:11 pm Post subject: yeah |
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| that sounds right. tanks. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 10:19 am Post subject: Re: Leaving a school and letter of release |
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| mandrews1985 wrote: |
Previously I posted about having trouble at my current job. Today, I decided enough was enough. I am going to leave. My contract states that I must give 60 days notice, I'm ok with doing this.
So here's some information:
I did not recieve airfare because I was in country already.
The cost of my recuitment was 100,000 won (the school advertised the job personally, no recruiter).
With regards to why I am leaving, it's pretty simple, we are not a good match and I do think it's best for both parties if we go our seperate ways.
I'm unsure that the school will give me a letter of release. I believe they wont. However, I have evidence that the school have paid me late twice in two months.
If the school refuse to give me a letter of release (i will still complete the 60 days notice) will immigration let me switch visa to D10 while I search for work and then let me change sponsors once I have found work? My current ARC lasts till next March as does my E2 visa and I do want to stay in Korea.
If I can't get a LoR will the fact that they've been late paying me for 2 months help my case with immigration?
The 2 months late payments are not the reason I'm leaving, would I need to state the late pay in my letter of resignation for it to be taken serious by immigration. |
If you want to stay in Korea, you will need a letter of release. That being your goal, you should give the proper 60 day notice. Write a gentle resignation letter giving 60 days and asking for a letter of release. The school will probably refuse to give the release letter before your last day, but you can include an agreement clause at the end of your letter. Give the boss two copies, one to sign and return to you and one to keep. The clause at the end should state that your boss has read the letter, agrees to your resignation, agrees to pay you all amounts due on your last day of work (itemize) and to provide you with a letter of release. You agree to help find and train a replacement and to teach faithfully and to the best of your ability through your last day.
When you are ready, give your boss the letter a day or so after you are paid. If your boss is reasonable, he will accept and sign. If he is not reasonable, you can still leave anytime you desire.
Most schools are honest and pay everything the teacher is due, even when they leave early, if the teacher gives proper notice.
If you have a runner on your record it can occasionally be harder to work in Korea in the future (as has been posted here on Dave's by a few runners who tried to come back later and faced difficulties after running). |
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CPJ
Joined: 30 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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If you think your school is doing well and it won't be difficult to find a replacement, then I say give notice. They won't want the trouble and will give you a release letter unless you are on really bad terms.
I don't understand where ttompatz thinks you won't get your last pay? You didn't get airfare money and you weren't hired through a recruiter.
If there is something to worry about your school, then maybe this isn't such a good idea? |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| CPJ wrote: |
| I don't understand where ttompatz thinks you won't get your last pay? You didn't get airfare money and you weren't hired through a recruiter. |
To paraphrase, Hell hath no fury like a hagwon scorned.
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CPJ
Joined: 30 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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The labour board is too powerful these days. No way a school gets away without paying a teacher unless they are going to close down.
I've know quite a few people quitting jobs and getting a release letter. I've never heard any of them getting screwed for money. Airfare gets deducted but it's in the contract.
hagwons are a business and if one is doing well and making money, they are going to want quiet and peace instead of a fight. If the teacher is wanting to quit, the director is probably wanting the teacher to quit as well. It usually works both ways.
If the hagwon is in trouble, then maybe they will want to take you down as well. |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 12:34 am Post subject: |
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A combination of:
- No LOR (so can't transfer and the school is NOT legally obligated to give one)
-and/or unwilling to stay (while unemployed) and go through the time and trouble of a tribunal (the hagwon has 14 days after termination of employment before labor will even accept the complaint) then the hagwon can and often does get away with it.
Also add the simple fact that under the current administration immigration, more often than not and unlike in recent years, is usually (since Jan of 2013) unwilling to allow another E2 application, transfer or change of status to a D10 without the LOR.
Damned if you do and damned if you don't.
You may know quite a few (perhaps in the 10's-20's) but I have personally dealt with well over 1000 cases at the help center in the last decade and unless the employee is willing to stay and fight it through the hagwon will win by default every time.
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Skippy
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Daejeon
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| Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 12:34 am Post subject: |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
| CPJ wrote: |
| I don't understand where ttompatz thinks you won't get your last pay? You didn't get airfare money and you weren't hired through a recruiter. |
To paraphrase, Hell hath no fury like a hagwon scorned.
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This is it! Because attitudes can change from day to day. It can be a rollercoaster ride of emotions and moves. Quit on a Monday and give notice. Boss accepts it. On Tuesday, boss calls you a lousy worker and is threatening to fire you instead. Wednesday he apologizes and says he wants to work out the problems. Thursday the boss has decide to work with you by firing you because he found a replacement. On Friday he is apologizing and saying he will give you the two months because replacement changed mind. Lets say after all 2 months and one pay check. The boss can for one more time change mind of giving LOR and takes deductions from pay check which might be legit or just made up. Many bosses and mangers can get away with this because at the end the person may not have any options but to go away. Plus many do not know how to proceed and fight for things they are due.
In Korea and with hagwons, error on the side that there is no loyalty. If you get some breaks, then good. Take the adage to heart of hope for the best plan for the worst. Same in quitting and giving notice. Hope for the best (finish 60 days and go) or being screwed royally.
Once again only give notice if it is worth it for you. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 8:46 am Post subject: |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
A combination of:
- No LOR (so can't transfer and the school is NOT legally obligated to give one)
-and/or unwilling to stay (while unemployed) and go through the time and trouble of a tribunal (the hagwon has 14 days after termination of employment before labor will even accept the complaint) then the hagwon can and often does get away with it.
Also add the simple fact that under the current administration immigration, more often than not and unlike in recent years, is usually (since Jan of 2013) unwilling to allow another E2 application, transfer or change of status to a D10 without the LOR.
Damned if you do and damned if you don't.
You may know quite a few (perhaps in the 10's-20's) but
I have personally dealt with well over 1000 cases at the help center in the last decade
and unless the employee is willing to stay and fight it through the hagwon will win by default every time.
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Those 1,000 cases over 10 years, meaning an average of 100 per year, represent less than 1% of the E2 teachers in Korea. Since in many cases it's the teacher who is at fault, despite going to the Help Center, and since these cases represent the worst there is, it's no surprise that you are biased and cannot see the reality.
The fact is that knowing 10s or 20s of individuals outside of the Help Center is a better and more representative sample than your experience inside.
You need to get out of the Help Center, off of Dave's, out of the bars, and out into the real world. A geographic sample group of a significant section of a large city covering every school within that area having at least 100 schools including at least one of each of the bulk of the major chains and a cross section of small and independent schools would be a reasonable place to start.
The truth is this:
The majority of hogwans honor their contracts and sign their employees up for both National Health Insurance and National Pension (not their legal ICs, however, who should enroll themselves).
Despite the only 1% sample reported by Ttompatz, about 5 to 10% of hogwans may actually cheat some or all of their employees in some material way, and that is a significant percentage worth being cautious about. |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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In a word. horseshit but you are entitled to your opinion.
Oh, and 1000 plus cases out of all inquiries/complaints would make it a statistically valid and randomized sample.
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 2:41 am Post subject: |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
In a word. horseshit but you are entitled to your opinion.
Oh, and 1000 plus cases out of all inquiries/complaints would make it a statistically valid and randomized sample.
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You have no concept of the idea of statistically valid sampling. There is nothing random about the people who contact the Help Center. People who have no trouble would have no reason to call there. In fact, most would not know of the Help Center's existence.
Your opinions are obviously meaningless, based on the knowledge of nothing at all. Go back to school. Study math and logic. You're current math comprehension level is no higher than 3rd grade - that's Elementary School. |
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