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le-paul
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre
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 Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 1:24 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| cj1976 wrote: |
| Once again, that is just your opinion and is no better than what you consider anecdotal evidence. I simply refuse to accept that Korea has a higher regard for animal welfare than the UK, because it is clearly not true. |
It may not have a higher regard, but that's not the issue. The issue is whether or not the UK is "Worlds Apart". The high levels of meat consumption, which is cruel to animals, mean that there is not a great gulf between the two. |
well, i think the issue is more how animals are treated IN GENERAL. how animals are kept in captivity, how animals are treated as pets, how animals are treated leading up to being slaughtered ( i mean, how many dairy cows did you see in a field here?) and how animals are slaughtered when it is chosen an appropriate time to slaughter them ( for example throwing them in a pit and letting them die by suffocation).
you cant judge how animals are treated simply by consumption of meat. what about dairy? do koreans drink less milk.
once again your pedantic ness and arrogance are overwhelming.
really, you just argue for the sake of it. If someone makes any kind of a point or statement, you immediacy jump to the opposite side, probably against what you actually believe.
tit for tat... |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 1:51 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
| Would you rather be shot in the head or have your skin stripped off, inch by inch, slowly? |
Would you rather be beaten with a stick for a few minutes, or shot in the head and eaten? Because in western countries, while the former is animal abuse, the latter is perfectly legal to do to an animal. Let's get real, western animal abuse laws have nothing to do with animal welfare, and everything to do with crafting a particular, unreal self-image. Feel bad about raising and slaughtering countless animals under factory farm conditions? Hey, at least we don't hit dogs, right?
There are some people out there who genuinely care about the well being of animals, but those people have no real influence on national policy. |
Oh, so the animals are beaten then not killed? Get real. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 2:48 am Post subject: |
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| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
| Would you rather be shot in the head or have your skin stripped off, inch by inch, slowly? |
Would you rather be beaten with a stick for a few minutes, or shot in the head and eaten? Because in western countries, while the former is animal abuse, the latter is perfectly legal to do to an animal. Let's get real, western animal abuse laws have nothing to do with animal welfare, and everything to do with crafting a particular, unreal self-image. Feel bad about raising and slaughtering countless animals under factory farm conditions? Hey, at least we don't hit dogs, right?
There are some people out there who genuinely care about the well being of animals, but those people have no real influence on national policy. |
Oh, so the animals are beaten then not killed? Get real. |
You missed my point so completely it's almost ridiculous. Ah well, par for the course for you, right? |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 3:14 am Post subject: |
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To answer your question: it would depend on the size of the stick and the strength of the person wielding it. These dogs aren't beaten lightly, either. If I had to choose between that kind of beating (while being strung up) and being shot in the head, I'd go for being shot in the head. As for being eaten after, what would I care? I'd be dead.
I got your point. It was flawed. Enjoy your weekend. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 3:33 am Post subject: |
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| No, your response tells me you still didn't get it. At all, really, given the question was rhetorical. Ah well. |
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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 3:50 am Post subject: |
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| I remember a few years back when a couple of students from the Ontario College of Art and Designed filmed themselves skinning alive a cat for an art project. They claimed it was a work of art. They also used the same logic the apologists on the thread are using about how it is no worse than meat consumption in our society. |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 4:49 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| No, your response tells me you still didn't get it. At all, really, given the question was rhetorical. Ah well. |
It's clear that you don't get it, dear, but you're far beyond help. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 6:38 am Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
| You seriously don't see the difference between a quick death, minizing the suffering the animal is subjected to, and torching a dog and beating it senseless while it's alive in an attempt to maximize the suffering? |
I don't see much difference in the cruelty of quickly killing 100,000 living beings versus beating 60,000 living beings to death.
| Quote: |
| you cant judge how animals are treated simply by consumption of meat. |
No, but if you are going to make a claim about a "world of difference", noting how one place is consuming significantly more meat through the cruel act of animal killing and is also filled with factory farms, is significant.
| Quote: |
| really, you just argue for the sake of it. If someone makes any kind of a point or statement, you immediacy jump to the opposite side, probably against what you actually believe. |
No, it's to make you consider the fact that perhaps some people have not fully thought out the issue.
Some people apparently believe that the killing of animals for culinary pleasure is not cruel to the animal as long as it is done quickly and relatively painlessly. I think that's ridiculous. I think killing a living creature for such reasons is cruel to that creature. As a meat-eater I am forced to acknowledge my own cruelness and accept it. Any meat eater who does not (outside of scavengers- and I do know of some people who follow that code) is being a sanctimonious hypocrite, and since very few people slaughter their own meat, they are extreme armchair activists on this issue, lacking the stomach to even deal with the guts and gore of their own actions.
Vegetarians on the other hand have a leg to stand on. But again, you have the quandry of far-greater meat consumption resulting in more animal death vs. lower living standards for animals and more painful death. I'd hope that vegetarians would view both nations as barbaric when it comes to their treatment of animals (from their point of view).
I enjoy the cruel practice of killing other living animals, who have been raised in hellish conditions, for the purposes of my gastronomic satisfaction. 99% of all meat eaters on this thread are the same. We have ZERO business judging Korean meat eating practices. It's like Nazi prison guards telling American bomber pilots that they were more humane because they just quickly gassed people to death rather than boiling them alive through firebombing of cities. We're both pieces of garbage when it comes to animals. |
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le-paul
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre
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| Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 7:59 am Post subject: |
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I am a vegetarian.
However, I feel that playing the vegetarian card would be a weak argumentative move. |
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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 8:25 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails, you are one stubborn SOB - I'll give you that. However, you made the classic internet mistake of bringing up the Nazis. |
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Maserial
Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Location: The Web
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| Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 8:42 am Post subject: |
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| cj1976 wrote: |
| However, you made the classic internet mistake of bringing up the Nazis. |
Wrong! It's only an Internet mistake when someone other than Steelrails brings up the Nazis. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| cj1976 wrote: |
| Steelrails, you are one stubborn SOB - I'll give you that. However, you made the classic internet mistake of bringing up the Nazis. |
Well if there is something we can all agree that is cruel and abusive, it is a foolhardy practitioners of Godwin's Law such as myself! |
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Janny
Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Location: all over the place
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| Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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Long-time reader / poster. Big-time animal interest.
Steelrails....my God I don't even have a clue what to type.
What this thread boils down to is intelligent people, whom are bored, trying to "teach" a moron something. (That intended cruelty is much worse than humane death. It's a philosophical angle. Maybe that's why he doesn't get it.)
They take the time because it's an inflammatory issue. It's genuinely upsetting to see animal abuse every day (in Korea). We learn it's wrong, and in our countries, we don't see it. We don't see our animals being butchered. We enjoy steak. We know in our hearts that despite the many numbers of atrocious slaughterhouse situations lead to that steak....not many people in charge of the killing are getting pleasure from it. And not many are actually intending to inflict pain.
Anyway, I think everyone knows my take on this; I've had this argument on Dave's about 5 times already.
Probably with Steelrails!
I don't know if I feel dumber or smarter after reading your posts, Steelrails. And you've been doing this same crap for so long on Dave's. Get a ...clue. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| trying to "teach" a moron something...That intended cruelty is much worse than humane death. |
And what I'm trying to teach you, as is clear from your statement which sets up a false premise, is that killing animals for gastronomic pleasure after they've been raised in factory farm conditions, is not humane death. It is animal cruelty.
| Quote: |
| It's a philosophical angle. |
It's a stop lying to yourself angle.
| Quote: |
| We learn it's wrong, and in our countries, we don't see it. We don't see our animals being butchered. We enjoy steak. We know in our hearts that despite the many numbers of atrocious slaughterhouse situations lead to that steak....not many people in charge of the killing are getting pleasure from it. And not many are actually intending to inflict pain. |
Well then there must be something gone wrong. If people learn its wrong, but we still have rampant atrocious slaughterhouse conditions, the lesson isn't sinking in.
It also suggests that people are burying the head in the sand when it comes to this issue.
Also, I'd submit that there is an EXTREME disconnect from reality when it comes to animals, farming, and butchering between urban/suburban folks whose main interaction with animals comes through pets and who get their meat from the supermarket and the other 50% of the world that interacts with animals in an agricultural setting and butchers their own food. This shows in the tendency of some folks to anthropomorphize animals and some of the views they have that are more akin to religious thinking than reality.
My point is this: Stop lying to yourself. There is nothing humane about our general meat industry back home and the average joe enjoying a Whopper is being cruel to animals, even if they don't realize it.
Out of sight, out of mind I guess. |
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le-paul
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre
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