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Foreigners not given the "age respect" thing?
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hiamnotcool

Joined: 06 Feb 2012

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:14 pm Post subject:

Geez does anyone actually want to adhere to all the cultural standards in Korea? I do my best, but the etiquette here is extremely complicated. I don't really care if I get the age thing because I know I fail to respect elders here the way that is proper and I have been given a pass many many times. Most foreigners here get a pass when it comes to etiquette, so it's only natural we don't get all the benefits either. I think as a NET I get respect as a teacher, but I don't get all the respect that is due to an elder. Why would I though? The older Koreans have gone through that rite of passage when they were treated like a junior, they had to clean up after the drinking sessions, let the older guy hit on the girl they liked for a few minutes before they got to try, got smacked and had to keep looking at their toes, I mean wow. They basically learned a seperate vocabulary to be able to speak to people over 35 yrs old. I never experienced any of that, so I don't see why I should reap the benefits in my old age.

hellofaniceguy

Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: On your computer screen!

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:23 pm Post subject: Re: Foreigners not given the "age respect" thing?

Smithington wrote:

Why is it that Korea's obsession with respecting one's elders never seems to apply to foreigners? I've seen Koreans get into fist fights over a perceived slight by someone two weeks younger than them. Age is to be respected - unless the older person is a foreigner. Of course the waygookin is expected to comply with Korean culture, respecting older teachers in the school, society etc...but it seems to be a one way street without any reciprocity.

Respecting your elders is a fundamental component of "Korean culture". It just seems to go out the window where whitey is concerned. Seems they can pick and choose which aspects of their culture apply to us, and which don't. Confused

As i said, it seems like a one way street.

I say to any korean who cares to listen...screw korean culture! It's trash. Most koreans don't even care for it themselves judging by their actions, behaviour, etc..
I never ever follow korean culture and I have been here for a few decades.
My thing is...I treat all with respect..I don't care what country/culture you are from.
Treat one another as you want to be treated.
You want to be a bonehead to me....two can play that game.
I never have followed korean customs or culture even with the out laws...er...in laws.
Just do my thing and treat everyone with kindness.

thegadfly

Joined: 01 Feb 2003

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:25 pm Post subject:

CentralCali wrote:

thegadfly wrote:

I am currently in the US, and do not have Hangul on my keyboard,

Here you go.

+11 Internets! Thank you Central Cali!

Scorpion

Joined: 15 Apr 2012

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:12 pm Post subject:

CentralCali wrote:

Have you ever seen a Korean teacher get "dongchimmed"?

I've worked in Korean public schools for seven years. I've been dong-chimmed at every one. They learn very quickly not to do that again, but I have never seen or heard of a Korean teacher being dong-chimmed. Ever! Not even a temporary hire to fill in for a sick or pregnant teacher. Once I was dong-chimmed and I grabbed the kids hand and marched him over to the Korean teacher and told the kid to dong-chim him. Of course he didn't do it. The thought of doing so would never cross his mind. He was probably even pissing himself at my very suggestion. "Dong-chim a Korean teacher? This waygook must be crazy." I told the kid that if hye wouldn't dong-chim a Korean teacher he must never do it to a foreign teacher. The fact that this needs to be said in itself speaks volumes about Korean culture and the wall that separates attitudes towards fellow Koreans and "the Other".

TheUrbanMyth

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:26 pm Post subject:

Scorpion wrote:

Anyone who thinks that foreigners in Korea receive the same respect as Koreans of a similar age is seriously deluded. From students snatching things out of your hand, to co-teachers half your age trying to micro-manage you in the classroom, to our demonization in the media, to impolite service from clerks at the local mart, the lower level of respect given to 'older' Westerners should be apparent to anyone not in a coma. I treat everyone with respect that I meet, be it the crossing guard, the lunch ladies, the janitor, or the principle. I exclusively use the 'yo' form of speech with every Korean I speak to, and it is often returned. But far too often it is not. I've had Korean teachers not even acknowledge my greeting. Others have too....I can't believe this is even a topic for debate. Would a bunch of high school students yell abuse at a 40 year old Korean, then collapse into a spasm of mocking laughter? Would middle school students yell "Hello" at you and, when you don't respond, start with the "puck you" talk?

I have had students hand me things with two hands, address me as "Sonsangnim" and bow to me in the hallway in every public school I've taught at. Do all of them do this? No. But it happens quite frequently.

I've never had a student snatch anything out of my hand.
I've had two co-teachers attempt to micromanage me in the classroom (but they both were older). What did I do? SNIP.
demonization in media? It comes and goes...most Koreans don't seem to care or notice given the increasing influx of foreigners here
Impolite service at a local mart? Yes...to which I play the Irritable Adjoshi Card...I haven't had it happen twice.

Would a group of students yell at a 40 year old Korean and laugh? Yes...I've seen it more than once.

As for the "puck you"? The IAC (see local mart reponse) also works well in that regard.

As for dealing with students I agree with everyone else in this thread who mentioned classroom management techniques or respecting your students.

CentralCali

Joined: 17 May 2007

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:33 pm Post subject:

thegadfly wrote:

CentralCali wrote:

thegadfly wrote:

I am currently in the US, and do not have Hangul on my keyboard,

Here you go.

+11 Internets! Thank you Central Cali!

No problem. I suppose I should've mentioned a few things about that site also.

1. You don't have to (but you can, if so moved) click on the keys. Just use your physical keyboard to type the desired text and then copy and past.

2. You can use either the Dubeolshik or Sebeolshik layouts.

3. Click on the banner at the top to go to the home page. There's a list of 65 languages the site supports. There's also a section at the bottom of the page with what they call additional features, (sɹǝʇʇǝl lɐʇıdɐɔ ƃuıʞɔɐl 'ʎlpɐs) pɹoɐqɐʎǝʞ uʍop ǝpısdn lɐnʇıɹıʌ ǝɥʇ sı ɥɔıɥʍ ɟo ǝuo.

Captain Corea

Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:39 pm Post subject:

Mix1 wrote:

Just comparing his story to the usual team of apologists always on here, who seem to never notice anything around them or have anything bad happen to them, isn't really telling much.

I had a bud who lived here for a similar amount of time I did. We both have good things and bad things to say about Korea. BUT... he had tons of BAD experiences that I never have. He was always VERY worried about what people thought of him, and he often found himself in many a confrontation.

For example, we trained together in a gym for a few months. He kept noting how people would stare. "Look, those guys are staring at us/you!" "Those PT don't like you, they're jealous" " You shouldn't move that bench, they keep staring at us". He was so worried about what other people thought, it actually took away from his ability to enjoy what he was doing.

Me? I said fook it. I'm there to train. If someone has a beef with me, let them step up. If not, it's no concern of mine.

Does that make him a hater and me an apologist? Him a shit magnet, and me with a horseshoe up my butt?

Two different people, same situations - but very different perspectives.

In the end, he was very unhappy here.

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:56 pm Post subject:

Scorpion wrote:

CentralCali wrote:

Have you ever seen a Korean teacher get "dongchimmed"?

No, it speaks volumes of your personal experiences.

First, do you go around interviewing all the Korean teachers about their dong-chimming experiences? How do you know they've never been dong-chimmed? Is this a regular topic of conversation? Are you sure they'd mention it?

I haven't had the ol DC since my first year here. I have heard of other Korean teachers getting it.

Did it ever occur to you that your conclusions might be wrong? That there are a wide variety of experiences? That maybe you aren't that good at classroom mangement? Or that possibly, possibly, they pick up on your negative attitude towards this place and seek to mess with it?

Besides, I've noticed a real demise in DC period.

But go ahead, refuse to consider the possibility that something you do might be a factor in the lack of respect and discipline in your classroom and instead just blame it on racism.

Answer this- How come so many other NETs can control their classrooms and ensure respect? Why are you failing at this?

Seoulman69

Joined: 14 Dec 2009

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:36 pm Post subject:

Quote:

I said showing some respect for the local culture and you went off....oh well.

In what way is the OP not showing respect for the local culture?

As usual the apologists have been blaming the OP. What a surprise.

Quote:

But go ahead, refuse to consider the possibility that something you do might be a factor in the lack of respect and discipline in your classroom and instead just blame it on racism.

By the very same reasoning you would have to consider the possibility that Koreans show less respect to foreigners. And it may not be the result of poor teaching skills, but rather a racism instilled into the students (possibly by their parents ).

Here's a thought:
Compare a 65 year old Korean man and American man.
If they each meet 100 people maybe 70 would treat both men with the same respect. A further 20 are assholes and treat them both poorly. But if 10 of this group are racist then they would treat the American with less respect than the Korean.
Therefore all other things being equal the American man would be treated worse overall than the Korean.

Paddycakes

Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Seoul

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:21 pm Post subject:

Scorpion wrote:

CentralCali wrote:

Have you ever seen a Korean teacher get "dongchimmed"?

I have never seen or heard of a Korean teacher being dong-chimmed. Ever!

Hmmmm, cough, cough... won't go there.... won't go there... Paddycakes, take your fingers off the keyboard.... Paddycakes... take your fingers off the keyboard..."

Captain Corea

Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:23 pm Post subject:

Seoulman69 wrote:

Quote:

I said showing some respect for the local culture and you went off....oh well.

In what way is the OP not showing respect for the local culture?

As usual the apologists have been blaming the OP. What a surprise.

Quote:

But go ahead, refuse to consider the possibility that something you do might be a factor in the lack of respect and discipline in your classroom and instead just blame it on racism.

But add to that a certain % that would fawn over the foreigner simply because they were from the West. It flows both ways when breaking it down that way.

Overall though, I agree with your summary. As I mentioned earlier, I had a good bud here that was in her 60s, and she was treated like royalty. Not ALL of the time, but far more than me (being much younger than her).

TheUrbanMyth

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:27 pm Post subject:

Seoulman69 wrote:

[
Here's a thought:
Compare a 65 year old Korean man and American man.
If they each meet 100 people maybe 70 would treat both men with the same respect. A further 20 are assholes and treat them both poorly. But if 10 of this group are racist then they would treat the American with less respect than the Korean.
Therefore all other things being equal the American man would be treated worse overall than the Korean.

If 10 of them are racist why would they treat the Korean man with more respect then the American?

Not all racists live in Korea or are Korean.

Captain Corea

Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:29 pm Post subject:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

Seoulman69 wrote:

If 10 of them are racist why would they treat the Korean man with more respect then the American?

Not all racists live in Korea or are Korean.

I do believe he was taking this as a sample of koreans in Korea.

Waygeek

Joined: 27 Feb 2013

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:53 pm Post subject: Re: Foreigners not given the "age respect" thing?

Smithington wrote:

As i said, it seems like a one way street.

Or it could be that it's just you that doesn't command respect... judging by your posts here I very much doubt you are a shining example of waygookiness. So if you don't get into the culture, look sullen 24/7 and complain about the country 364 days a year the people of that country are hardly gonna dish you out respect are they?

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:04 pm Post subject:

Captain Corea wrote:

Seoulman69 wrote:

Quote:

I said showing some respect for the local culture and you went off....oh well.

In what way is the OP not showing respect for the local culture?

As usual the apologists have been blaming the OP. What a surprise.

Quote:

But go ahead, refuse to consider the possibility that something you do might be a factor in the lack of respect and discipline in your classroom and instead just blame it on racism.

But add to that a certain % that would fawn over the foreigner simply because they were from the West. It flows both ways when breaking it down that way.

Not to mention a certain % of foreigners who would treat the Korean person worse than another foreigner. But of course on the flip side you'd have the Korea cheerleaders who would treat Koreans better than other foreigners.

Kinda seems like a wash. That being said, there's certainly people who got dealt a bum hand.

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