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Chia Pet
Joined: 23 Jun 2013
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 Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:54 am Post subject: Severance pay if a hagwon closes? |
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I'm working at a hagwon now, and I'm about to finish my first contract there. The owner and I have verbally agreed to keep working together for at least a few more months. No new contract has been made yet.
The hagwon isn't doing well, and the director seems more focused on another project than on maintaining the hagwon. She may be planning to close the hagwon soon.
If I continue working there past my first contract, and she closes the hagwon, what should I do if she tries to skip paying severance (or final salary)? |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:00 am Post subject: |
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| If I continue working there past my first contract, and she closes the hagwon, what should I do if she tries to skip paying severance (or final salary)? |
Not much. It's important to finish the year. After 1 year you get 1 year's severance plus 1/12 of a month's salary each month you work. Use this as a negotiating tool. Tell them they can pay 1 year and you won't take legal action.
In the meantime, say nothing, talk to no little birds. Let the time roll by. |
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Chia Pet
Joined: 23 Jun 2013
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| Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm not sure if you understood my question. My question was, ASSUMING I FINISH MY CONTRACT, if I continue working for her, and then one day she says "we're closing," what can I do if she decides to skip paying severance (or my final salary)? Would the labor board be able to get me my money? Or by closing, would she be relieved of her obligations to pay? |
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IPayInCash
Joined: 27 Jul 2013
Location: Away from all my board stalkers :)
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| Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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This is why I don't work at a hagwon.
I've met teachers that had schools close on them and they never got their severance. They also went through the labor board. Good luck. |
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beentheredonethat777
Joined: 27 Jul 2013
Location: AsiaHaven
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| Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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," what can I do if she decides to skip paying severance (or my final salary)?
It is hard, nearly impossible for teachers to get monies owed to them from schools that are still
OPEN and functioning on a daily basis; but getting your cash from a NON EXISTING/ CLOSED school? That's being overly optimistic! |
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beentheredonethat777
Joined: 27 Jul 2013
Location: AsiaHaven
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| Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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," what can I do if she decides to skip paying severance (or my final salary)?
It is hard, nearly impossible for teachers to get monies owed to them from schools that are still
OPEN and functioning on a daily basis; but getting your cash from a NON EXISTING/ CLOSED school? That's being overly optimistic! |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Chia Pet wrote: |
| I'm not sure if you understood my question. My question was, ASSUMING I FINISH MY CONTRACT, if I continue working for her, and then one day she says "we're closing," what can I do if she decides to skip paying severance (or my final salary)? Would the labor board be able to get me my money? Or by closing, would she be relieved of her obligations to pay? |
I do understand your question. I am saying, finish the year. Then you can try to collect on it. When and if the school decides to close, demand something and try to get at least 1 year. They might feel by giving you a year and no more they are saving. At least make it look that way. |
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thisisausername
Joined: 28 May 2011
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| Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:12 am Post subject: |
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I worked at an otherwise really good hagwon last year that started messing around about the pension. The first three months the deduction was taken for my check and they also made their contribution. After 2 months I called both the tax office and the pension office just to make sure that these contributions were actually being made. everything was good to go.
However in month 10 I called them again and found that they had just been deducting pension from my check each month but not making contributions (neither mine nor theirs). They were just pocketing the deduction from my check. So I brought it up with them and they said oh don't worry of course we will pay it. Month 11 check comes around I called pension office. Nope still no payment since the 3rd month. Talk to the school again oh don't worry. The last week I was at that job I probably called the pension office 4 times. Nope. Finally the morning of my last day I visited the office to file a complaint. The lady was like Oh my god, all of your all of your pension balance just came through. The director literally payed them while I was sitting there talking to the lady at the pension office. This was a few hours before I was supposed to start work for my last day. My flight was leaving the next morning. They paid me my full salary and severance at the same time.
I think hagwons a lot of the time like to procrastinate and always delay delay delay but many of them know they need to pay in the end. If the other project you're speaking of involves waygooks your director likely knows shes gotta pay you to avoid bad press on sites like this. |
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Skippy
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Daejeon
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| Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:30 am Post subject: |
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| thisisausername wrote: |
I worked at an otherwise really good hagwon last year that started messing around about the pension.........
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This is about severance. Through you bring a good point on hagwons and last minute dealings.
If you are worried about closure and severance, then I would skirt the law a bit and collect severance when you finish the first year/contract. Continue with the school but expect the extra couple of months severance is a wash. You might collect, you might not.
As to collecting severance if the school does close, well then you would have to make a labor board application. The more you leave it the higher the chance of getting nothing as there will be nothing to deal with and money is gone. In the end wages and severance are pretty high on the who gets paid if a business closes. But you will have to make a claim.
Also if you are worried and suspect problems, why stick around. Why be understanding and helpful with someone who will not reciprocate. First worry about yourself then worry about the school. It is all a gamble in the end.
The one thing that surprises me is everyone expect the law to be automatic. Life is not a computer game. Or people expect some government official will solve it for them and right away all of course with just one phone call or email. In real life the the process is slow, confusing, and not always what a person expects. This is government you are dealing with.
So unless you are willing to do the work, you can try and get the money owed. |
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Waygeek
Joined: 27 Feb 2013
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| Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:11 am Post subject: |
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| YTMND wrote: |
Not much. It's important to finish the year. After 1 year you get 1 year's severance plus 1/12 of a month's salary each month you work. |
What? I've never heard of that additional payment before... are you basically trying to say they give you a month's payment as severance? |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:36 am Post subject: |
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| Waygeek wrote: |
| YTMND wrote: |
Not much. It's important to finish the year. After 1 year you get 1 year's severance plus 1/12 of a month's salary each month you work. |
What? I've never heard of that additional payment before... are you basically trying to say they give you a month's payment as severance? |
After 1 year, the 13th month is the severance amount. If you do not collect on it, then it rolls over into the 2nd year, 1/12 of your salary is added/owed each month you work after 12 months.
So, if your salary is 2,100,000 for 1.5 years and you don't get 2,100,000 after 12 months, you should get 3,150,000 after 1.5 years of working. If you collect 2,100,000 after 1 year, then you can only get 2,100,000 again after the year. A pay raise in this example might mean you get 2,200,000 or 1/12 of the higher salary. Up to you to try to get 2,200,000 for 2 years without collecting the first year. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Waygeek wrote: |
| YTMND wrote: |
Not much. It's important to finish the year. After 1 year you get 1 year's severance plus 1/12 of a month's salary each month you work. |
What? I've never heard of that additional payment before... are you basically trying to say they give you a month's payment as severance? |
Where have you been? This has been discussed multiple times on Dave's as well as probably on just about every other site dealing with ESL in Korea.
By Korean labor law they are required to give you one month's severance pay for each year worked.
So if you work for one full year they MUST give you one month's pay (severance) at the end of it.
Two full years would be two months pay and so forth and so on.
Two things to note about this are:
1. Unless you work a FULL first year you are not entitled to the severance.
2. If you work there more than one year you are not entitled to severance at the end of the year but at the end of the contract. So if you work there say three years...you will get the three years severance at the end of the three years...not once per year. With a public school there's not much need to worry but with a hakwon I'd ask for severance at the end of each year. |
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Chia Pet
Joined: 23 Jun 2013
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| IPayInCash wrote: |
This is why I don't work at a hagwon.
I've met teachers that had schools close on them and they never got their severance. They also went through the labor board. Good luck. |
Unfortunately, this might answer my question the most closely. I was hoping Ttompatz or somebody would chime in and say that there are systems in place to make sure all workers get their final pay and severance. Too bad that's probably not the case. |
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Skippy
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Daejeon
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Chia Pet wrote: |
Unfortunately, this might answer my question the most closely. I was hoping Ttompatz or somebody would chime in and say that there are systems in place to make sure all workers get their final pay and severance. Too bad that's probably not the case. |
Ttompatz would likely Chime in that yes there are systems in place. He will likely call them such things as the labor board, pension, and immigration.
I have noticed an attitude with many people in Korea. They expect the law to be automatic. Sorry life is not a computer game. Getting a resolution to a legal problem often takes time and effort (plus some testicular fortitude). People keep expecting some simple and quick solutions. For example boss does not pay person on time. Employee calls phone number and next day they are paid. Or employer wants teacher to work overtime and the employee can say NO the law says it is illegal and the boss will back off. |
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Chia Pet
Joined: 23 Jun 2013
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:16 am Post subject: |
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| Skippy wrote: |
| Chia Pet wrote: |
Unfortunately, this might answer my question the most closely. I was hoping Ttompatz or somebody would chime in and say that there are systems in place to make sure all workers get their final pay and severance. Too bad that's probably not the case. |
Ttompatz would likely Chime in that yes there are systems in place. He will likely call them such things as the labor board, pension, and immigration.
I have noticed an attitude with many people in Korea. They expect the law to be automatic. Sorry life is not a computer game. Getting a resolution to a legal problem often takes time and effort (plus some testicular fortitude). People keep expecting some simple and quick solutions. For example boss does not pay person on time. Employee calls phone number and next day they are paid. Or employer wants teacher to work overtime and the employee can say NO the law says it is illegal and the boss will back off. |
F off, dude. I never said I was expecting anything to be automatic or effortless. I wanted to know if I could eventually get the money, or if I'd probably be screwed. IPayInCash's post provided such information and yours did not. |
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