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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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 Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:10 am Post subject: |
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| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| You are far too certain about something that is essentially unknowable, and even though I don't necessarily agree with GF's views there is no need to mock someone who is sincerely engaging in conversation. Calling something or someone, or strongly implying, stupid doesn't make you look clever. |
Say what?
Please check again the statements being made in the context of my remarks.
Human beings know very little. I know very little.
However, I do know that these guys don't know either.
But they claim that they do know.
How can they know the unknowable?
The only proof they have is from a book written by incompetent people and a god too incompetent to create competent book writers.
I do not feel these posters are being sincere in engaging in debate or conversation...really little more than proselytizing.
We could get back to the kind of advice the Pope can start/stop giving out. |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2msQwpzatQc
Why are you even engaged in this silly conversation when you know as well as I do that their answer is going to be faith, it's the whole corner stone of the thing. You are essentially arguing a moot point and you know it. That you think that the bible is incompetently written is weird though, I've never heard that kind of strange line of reasoning before. |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:49 am Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| Why are you even engaged in this silly conversation when you know as well as I do that their answer is going to be faith, it's the whole corner stone of the thing. You are essentially arguing a moot point and you know it. That you think that the bible is incompetently written is weird though, I've never heard that kind of strange line of reasoning before. |
Again, they either don't understand or don't care about the position they've adopted. For The Cosmic Hum here, she has decided the text is lacking, and that that is the only thing a believer could be relying on. And now she's even backpedaling from her previous positive assertion that belief must be a delusion. People like that aren't worth conversing with on the subject, as they're really only interested in mockery, not reasoned discourse. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| Why are you even engaged in this silly conversation when you know as well as I do that their answer is going to be faith, it's the whole corner stone of the thing. You are essentially arguing a moot point and you know it. That you think that the bible is incompetently written is weird though, I've never heard that kind of strange line of reasoning before. |
No worries. These threads disappearing is what makes these conversations even sillier.
I am not arguing a moot point. I am just not remaining silent while certain posters push an agenda.
| geldedgoat wrote: |
| And now he's even backpedaling from his previous positive assertion that belief must be a delusion. People like that aren't worth conversing with on the subject, as they're really only interested in mockery, not reasoned discourse. |
The only backpedaling being done is by you. Welcome back to the thread you said you were leaving.
Reasoned discourse would be refreshing, but unfortunately not to be found from the delusional religious types that frequent this board.
She? How sweet. More delusions. |
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Scorpion
Joined: 15 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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GF, I have a question for you. You have stated that your diety placed a hierarchy on earth to give doctrinal and moral guidance to the faithful. How then do you account for the papacy's long history of corruption, the crusades, inquisition, anti-Jewish pograms, the accumulation of wealth, nepotism and a long catalog of other vices? The popes until recently evenm had their own state in central Italy and waged wars with its neighbors. They have also tended to make up doctrines willy nilly that previous popes, cardinals and bishops had never heard of. Then there is the the child abuse scandal of recent years, one which the pope (God's conscience on earth) demanded to be covered up. We're all aware of Ratzinger's letter to bishops and priests threatening excommunication if anyone goes to the police. This is the institution set up by your diety to not only give doctrinal clarification, but moral guidance. Rather than leading people to heaven it has driven million from the church, and created deep doubts in others. Ireland, once the most Catholic country on earth, has seen a mass exedos from the church because of the sex scandals. Indeed, the Irish government, in disgust at the cover up, even closed its embassy at the Vatican. In your way of thinking, all these ex-Catholics are on their way to hell - because of the incompetence, cruelty and immorality of the hierarchy. This cruelty went from the lowliest deacon all the way up to the pope. And this is the institution an incompetent deity, who can't get a message straight, placed on earth to oversee the faithful?
You have to be kidding me?
Let me say one thing. I'm not singling out Catholicism here. All religion is messed up, a product of the infancy of our species. All of it. If a Mormon or Presbyterian was here proselytizing I'd underline the stupidities of their doctrines too. But you are a Catholic, and you are already convinced of the errors of those faiths. I consider it a personal responsibility to help you see the absurdities of your own.
Got to go now, I've a talking snake on the other line. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| Why are you even engaged in this silly conversation when you know as well as I do that their answer is going to be faith, it's the whole corner stone of the thing. You are essentially arguing a moot point and you know it. That you think that the bible is incompetently written is weird though, I've never heard that kind of strange line of reasoning before. |
No worries. These threads disappearing is what makes these conversations even sillier.
I am not arguing a moot point. I am just not remaining silent while certain posters push an agenda. |
What happens when an unstoppable force meets an unmovable object, what happens when a religious person debates an atheist... |
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Scorpion
Joined: 15 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| That you think that the bible is incompetently written is weird though, I've never heard that kind of strange line of reasoning before. |
May I suggest you start your education with Bart Ehrmann's Jesus Interrupted and Misquoting Jesus. Both are available at Kyobo Book Store in Seoul for under 20,000 won. They are fascinating books and, unlike the bible, very well written. After reading these you will never look at the bible the same way again. You can also do a google search for any of the following:
1. contradictions in the bible
2. scientific errors in the bible
3. absurdities in the bible
4. historic errors in the bible
Actually wait, I'll do it for you. Here you are. http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/
The problem with the bible is that it is a collections of stories written by various characters (with various agendas, degrees of intelligence and mental health, priorities and moral susceptibilities) over 1600 years. Any human document, so compiled, is going to be full of contradictions and errors. The bible is no exception. For example, many of the stories in the Torah are told twice. Why is that? It's because the writers of each story were advocates of either the northern kingdom of Israel or the southern kingdom of Judah. They tended to interpret things to support their particular dynasty, with wildly differing spins on the stories. When the two kingdoms united they needed a unified story to go with the new political dispensation. A team of editors were brought in to fuse the two tales, and they (inevitably, perhaps) made a dog's dinner out of it. You still have the telling of each story twice, and the details are laughably at odds with each other. Bronze age incompetence I guess. Surely chaps guided by a diety would have done a stand up job, but there you have it. And then there is the howler of Noah's Ark. Every animal (two of each, actually) were able to fit onto the ark. There are approximately five million species on earth (50,000 species of spider alone) and they are spread over five continents. But the bible would have us believe they all lived within walking distance of Noah's house. It's just stupid. Then there's the story of the exodus from Egypt. Something like 400, 000 Hebrews spent forty years in the desert. Archaeologists have not been able to find a thing. No houses, no camp fires, no graves, no nothing. It didn't happen. Golda Meir, the Israeli prime minister had sent a team of archaeologists into the Sinai to look for evidence of the exodus story. Israel was obsessed with finding evidence of this, because the Israeli state's legitimacy rested in good part on these ancient stories actually being true. The team eventually met with Meir and told her, "Prime minister, it did not happen." They could find the campfire of a single Bedouin from 2000 BC, but not a single trace of the entire nation camping there for a generation. Every single team of archaeologists since that time have come to the same conclusion. It did not happen.
The contradictions and errors in the gospels are also glaring. They can't even agree on how long Jesus' ministry was (was it one year or three years?), when he cleared the temple (at the beginning of his ministry or at the end?), who his relatives were, whether he was surprised to end up on the cross, how long he was up there, who was at the tomb when the women arrived to annoint the body, and on it goes. The historic absurdities include Mathew's claim that at the time of Christ's death the sun was blocked out from the sky at midday. This clearly did not happen, or else no historian, scribe, or astrologer from Greece to India noticed this unprecedented astronomical occurence. It didn't happen. Even the other gospels fail to mention it. Matthew made it up. Same with the story about the saints getting up from their graves and walking into Jerusalem to reunite with their families. Nobody seems to have noticed this either.
I have to prepare lessons now, so I'll stop. But please take your time to educate yourself about these issues. What we now know about the bible is fascinating. I can assure you that, once you start reading historical criticism of the bible, you will never look at it through the same eyes again.
Last edited by Scorpion on Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Scorpion wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| That you think that the bible is incompetently written is weird though, I've never heard that kind of strange line of reasoning before. |
May I suggest you start your education with Bart Ehrmann's Jesus Interrupted and Misquoting Jesus. Both are available at Kyobo Book Store in Seoul for under 20,000 won. They are fascinating books and, unlike the bible, very well written. After reading these you will never look at the bible the same way again. You can also do a google search for any of t | | | |
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