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| Should the police write tickets for traffic violations? |
| Of course! Traffic laws exist for a good reason. |
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70% |
[ 19 ] |
| Maybe sometimes, but many traffic laws are a nuisance. |
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25% |
[ 7 ] |
| Absolutely not. Drivers should be allowed to drive as they see fit. |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Other. |
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3% |
[ 1 ] |
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| Total Votes : 27 |
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Chaucer
Joined: 20 Oct 2009
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 Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| nicwr2002 wrote: |
| Unless they switched to smart traffic lights, I would rather be able to drive through a red light. It's so annoying when you are driving down the road and the light changes even if there aren't any cars waiting in the other direction. Going back to the states during Chuseok, I noticed how much faster getting through traffic lights was compared to Korea. |
And I don't know about other areas, but suburban Gyeonggi is ridiculous--it seems every apartment complex or little alley has its own traffic light, making a 1 km trip an endless stop n go. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| cabeza wrote: |
Like the guy says above, many, many intersections have restricted visibility.
Also considering that many drivers already do this (running red lights) and Korea has the highest traffic death rate in the OECD the last thing that is needed here is less traffic regulation. I have no confidence in Korean drivers (and many drivers in my own country too) and I have no idea how many of them ever got a drivers license.
The more common sense approach would be to have a proper traffic system that most first countries do. Sensor pads under the roads so that lights change depending on traffics flows. Putting buttons on pedestrian crossings so that it only needs to go through that cycle if their is actually a pedestrian waiting etc. |
Well, many have restricted visibility and many do not. Only allow it at those without restricted visibility.
I'm not too hung up on that one example, just throwing it out there as a way in which an exact law could have some more give.
I actually had an idea back home called a "Blue Plate" where drivers who drive a certain period of time without any infractions (5-10+ years, 5 years for young drivers to give incentive towards safe youth driving) would be eligible to get a different colored license plate that would enable them to have greater privileges like treating red lights as 4 ways, being able to drive 5 mph above the speed limit or other small benefits.
| Quote: |
| Also considering that many drivers already do this (running red lights) and Korea has the highest traffic death rate in the OECD the last thing that is needed here is less traffic regulation. |
What Korea really needs is a heftier system of driver education and to get kids driving earlier. Experience is a significant factor. A lot of Koreans go years into adulthood without driving, often through college. As age increases, the easiness of learning decreases. Start driver education in high school and encourage them to learn alongside their parents.
At least for highways deaths, the big one should be expanding highways to 4-6 lanes. Too many highways are 2 lane rivers of congestion, begging for pileups.
Lastly, a series of graphic safety awareness ads about child seats and some information buses with "rollercoaster" style demonstrations where people try to hold onto a makeshift baby and are subjected to the force of an impact.
| Quote: |
| The more common sense approach would be to have a proper traffic system that most first countries do. Sensor pads under the roads so that lights change depending on traffics flows. Putting buttons on pedestrian crossings so that it only needs to go through that cycle if their is actually a pedestrian waiting etc. |
These would be good to, though I'd imagine that it would be mostly along busy streets. Less busy side streets that still have lights might not get them (same as back home). I'd imagine the KGovernment would want to encourage this as they tend to care about fuel consumption. |
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cabeza
Joined: 29 Sep 2012
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tophatcat
Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Location: under the hat
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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If the person breaks the rule, throw the book at them. The bigger the fine the better. If not, everyone one thinks their case for breaking the rule is special. Of course there could be an excuse for rare cases; example, someone taking a seriously injured person to the hospital. There will always be the .001% case.
Yup! the cops need more authority to enforce the traffic laws. I would like to see more cops wearing the dark sunglasses, carrying clubs, and smoking big cigars. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| cabeza wrote: |
| Jesus. I know a lot of that is from increased car safety features but imagine what it must have been like driving here in the 1990s! |
I was kid when I was here to watch the '88 Olympics. It was horrid and almost heart attack worthy. Taxi drivers would go barreling down the opposite of traffic and quickly get back into the right side just before a bus, that wasn't slowing down, was going to hit them....
If you think the bus drivers are terrible now, you'd shit yourself in '88. And most of the inter-city freeways weren't built then. It was mostly 2 lanes or 4.
Another thing to note, it was really really hard to see a woman behind the wheel back then. Maybe like 1 in 30 cars was driven by a woman. Ownership was probably just under 1 car/family. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
There are a lot of intersections where visibility is such that even after stopping and looking you would be unable to see a car coming which would nail you as you crossed against the red.
BTW, do you think Korean drivers are going to stop and look? They don;t now, so if the law in this case was relaxed it would make things worse.
Your last statement is your typical balderdash. |
And there are lots of intersections where sight lines are fine. Those that are tricky can have signs prohibiting stop and go.
Yes, there are many bad Korean drivers out there, there are also many that drive perfectly reasonably and would be able to handle such a system. Also, the nature of the question seemed to be talking about traffic tickets in general, not just in Korea.
As far as my last statement being balderdash, I disagree. I think its perfectly reasonable to accept the idea that someone who has a license should be trusted to have the judgment necessary to be able to come to a complete stop at a red light, look all ways, and proceed if there is no oncoming traffic. That's not rocket science. The light doesn't know better than the driver whether or not its safe to go.
If the light is green and a truck is barreling through with no sign of stopping, do you still go ahead? No, you wait until the truck passes through and then make sure its safe before proceeding under the green light. Just because the light is green, doesn't mean its safe to go. Just because the light is red, doesn't mean its unsafe to go. It's not the light that makes the decision, its the driver. The light is there to assist and regulate the driver during normal driving conditions and traffic flows. An empty street at 3AM is not normal conditions. A guy speeding through a red light is not normal conditions. In both cases, the judgment of the driver should supplant that of the traffic light.
Now is what I wrote above unreasonable balderdash? |
All of it.
For example, they are installing rotaries (roundabouts) at intersections all over Jeju-do because of so many collisions at them, many of which were at high speeds and resulted in deaths. There were stop signs, yield signs, flashing lights, regular traffic lights and because of the regular failure of Jeju-do drivers--residents, not tourists, to obey any of them, they've had to turn to rotaries to stop the traffic deaths.
So you want to turn the drunk driver at 3a.m. loose to decide it's OK to run the red light, stop sign, etc?
That's a very, very bad idea. |
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Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
These two sentences are just a wee bit different, don't you think laddie?
| Quote: |
| "South Korea has the highest traffic death rate in the OCED" |
And
| Quote: |
| "South Korea had the dubious distinction of ranking first among OECD countries in traffic fatalities in 2010" |
Yet this article was clearly written after 2011 (as it included some stats from that year as well) yet did not say the highest deaths occurred in that year or any year prior to that. Therefore it seems to be that one particular year (which is a far cry from claiming that this is the current situation as well.) |
Don't you think Laddie? Stick it up your ass.
I don't know you, you don't know me, get some manners. |
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nicwr2002
Joined: 17 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
There are a lot of intersections where visibility is such that even after stopping and looking you would be unable to see a car coming which would nail you as you crossed against the red.
BTW, do you think Korean drivers are going to stop and look? They don;t now, so if the law in this case was relaxed it would make things worse.
Your last statement is your typical balderdash. |
And there are lots of intersections where sight lines are fine. Those that are tricky can have signs prohibiting stop and go.
Yes, there are many bad Korean drivers out there, there are also many that drive perfectly reasonably and would be able to handle such a system. Also, the nature of the question seemed to be talking about traffic tickets in general, not just in Korea.
As far as my last statement being balderdash, I disagree. I think its perfectly reasonable to accept the idea that someone who has a license should be trusted to have the judgment necessary to be able to come to a complete stop at a red light, look all ways, and proceed if there is no oncoming traffic. That's not rocket science. The light doesn't know better than the driver whether or not its safe to go.
If the light is green and a truck is barreling through with no sign of stopping, do you still go ahead? No, you wait until the truck passes through and then make sure its safe before proceeding under the green light. Just because the light is green, doesn't mean its safe to go. Just because the light is red, doesn't mean its unsafe to go. It's not the light that makes the decision, its the driver. The light is there to assist and regulate the driver during normal driving conditions and traffic flows. An empty street at 3AM is not normal conditions. A guy speeding through a red light is not normal conditions. In both cases, the judgment of the driver should supplant that of the traffic light.
Now is what I wrote above unreasonable balderdash? |
All of it.
For example, they are installing rotaries (roundabouts) at intersections all over Jeju-do because of so many collisions at them, many of which were at high speeds and resulted in deaths. There were stop signs, yield signs, flashing lights, regular traffic lights and because of the regular failure of Jeju-do drivers--residents, not tourists, to obey any of them, they've had to turn to rotaries to stop the traffic deaths.
So you want to turn the drunk driver at 3a.m. loose to decide it's OK to run the red light, stop sign, etc?
That's a very, very bad idea. |
I don't think a roundabout is going to stop a drunk driver from smashing into the person who is going around. People entering the roundabout still have to yield just like an intersection. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
So you want to turn the drunk driver at 3a.m. loose to decide it's OK to run the red light, stop sign, etc?
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Sober drivers between say, 10PM and 6AM, come to a complete stop at a red traffic light. If there is no oncoming traffic and there is clear visibility down all lanes, then yes, they should be able to proceed after carefully checking all directions, the same as a four-way stop.
As for drunk drivers, they pose a danger no matter what. No one is turning them loose. I don't hold the keys of every drunk driver in Korea and hand them out to run red lights.
| Quote: |
| because of the regular failure of Jeju-do drivers--residents, not tourists, |
What does this have to do with anything besides attempting to get in another "Koreans are stupid" shot to compensate for the fact that you have live here working for them and need to lash out?
Unless of course you are talking about Korean tourists, who constitute probably 95% of tourists in Jeju. Since you say that this is NOT because of tourists, you must be saying that Koreans are not the problem, as they are 95% of tourists!
And again, the OP was talking about ticketing in general, NOT JUST IN KOREA. I've already laid out several ideas for improving Korean road safety.
I do think some traffic tickets are unnecessary nitpicks or little more than revenue generators. Strict enforcement of certain ones instead of a more "officer's discretion" approach just comes across as heavy-handed and in some cases you've reached the point of diminishing returns between issuing citations and improving driver safety.
Speaking for myself, but I suspect there are some other drivers out there as well, while driving conditions in Korea do make us cringe and suffer in exasperation, we also do enjoy not having to CONSTANTLY be on the look out for cops and suddenly getting pulled over because slowly over time we built up speed to 10mph over or slightly went over the line. No speed traps, employed for the sole purpose of catching people accelerating through a downhill curve and nabbing them to slap on a 250 dollar ticket. No army of metermaids out there to write you a 25 dollar ticket the second your meter expires or to impede commerce by slapping fine after fine on delivery trucks (New York City) solely to finance the government. It's nice knowing I'm not going to get pulled over for some random BS excuse just to get Buford T. Justice looking to bust me on anything he can like expired registration and insurance (even though you are up to date- Everyone has had that time where they found it wedged in the manual in the glove box and had to go into court to get the thing waved). There's no reason people should be having to carry registration certificates in their cars anymore, it should all be computerized by now. It just still exists so American cops can write tickets.
Korea could use some more enforcement, and driving here is stressful. But there is also an element of freedom and relaxation here. I enjoy the fact that the sight of a Korean cop car with its lights on behind me doesn't cause me to crap myself in fear. |
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nicwr2002
Joined: 17 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
So you want to turn the drunk driver at 3a.m. loose to decide it's OK to run the red light, stop sign, etc?
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Sober drivers between say, 10PM and 6AM, come to a complete stop at a red traffic light. If there is no oncoming traffic and there is clear visibility down all lanes, then yes, they should be able to proceed after carefully checking all directions, the same as a four-way stop.
As for drunk drivers, they pose a danger no matter what. No one is turning them loose. I don't hold the keys of every drunk driver in Korea and hand them out to run red lights.
| Quote: |
| because of the regular failure of Jeju-do drivers--residents, not tourists, |
I do think some traffic tickets are unnecessary nitpicks or little more than revenue generators. Strict enforcement of certain ones instead of a more "officer's discretion" approach just comes across as heavy-handed and in some cases you've reached the point of diminishing returns between issuing citations and improving driver safety.
Speaking for myself, but I suspect there are some other drivers out there as well, while driving conditions in Korea do make us cringe and suffer in exasperation, we also do enjoy not having to CONSTANTLY be on the look out for cops and suddenly getting pulled over because slowly over time we built up speed to 10mph over or slightly went over the line. No speed traps, employed for the sole purpose of catching people accelerating through a downhill curve and nabbing them to slap on a 250 dollar ticket. No army of metermaids out there to write you a 25 dollar ticket the second your meter expires or to impede commerce by slapping fine after fine on delivery trucks (New York City) solely to finance the government. It's nice knowing I'm not going to get pulled over for some random BS excuse just to get Buford T. Justice looking to bust me on anything he can like expired registration and insurance (even though you are up to date- Everyone has had that time where they found it wedged in the manual in the glove box and had to go into court to get the thing waved). There's no reason people should be having to carry registration certificates in their cars anymore, it should all be computerized by now. It just still exists so American cops can write tickets.
Korea could use some more enforcement, and driving here is stressful. But there is also an element of freedom and relaxation here. I enjoy the fact that the sight of a Korean cop car with its lights on behind me doesn't cause me to crap myself in fear. |
+1 |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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| As for OECD stats, I believe it when I read that Korea is one of the worst countries in the developed world for driver safety. Look at how many people drive scooters and motorcycles alongside cars. Probably one of the highest rates in the developed world. That screams death risk. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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| nicwr2002 wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
There are a lot of intersections where visibility is such that even after stopping and looking you would be unable to see a car coming which would nail you as you crossed against the red.
BTW, do you think Korean drivers are going to stop and look? They don;t now, so if the law in this case was relaxed it would make things worse.
Your last statement is your typical balderdash. |
And there are lots of intersections where sight lines are fine. Those that are tricky can have signs prohibiting stop and go.
Yes, there are many bad Korean drivers out there, there are also many that drive perfectly reasonably and would be able to handle such a system. Also, the nature of the question seemed to be talking about traffic tickets in general, not just in Korea.
As far as my last statement being balderdash, I disagree. I think its perfectly reasonable to accept the idea that someone who has a license should be trusted to have the judgment necessary to be able to come to a complete stop at a red light, look all ways, and proceed if there is no oncoming traffic. That's not rocket science. The light doesn't know better than the driver whether or not its safe to go.
If the light is green and a truck is barreling through with no sign of stopping, do you still go ahead? No, you wait until the truck passes through and then make sure its safe before proceeding under the green light. Just because the light is green, doesn't mean its safe to go. Just because the light is red, doesn't mean its unsafe to go. It's not the light that makes the decision, its the driver. The light is there to assist and regulate the driver during normal driving conditions and traffic flows. An empty street at 3AM is not normal conditions. A guy speeding through a red light is not normal conditions. In both cases, the judgment of the driver should supplant that of the traffic light.
Now is what I wrote above unreasonable balderdash? |
All of it.
For example, they are installing rotaries (roundabouts) at intersections all over Jeju-do because of so many collisions at them, many of which were at high speeds and resulted in deaths. There were stop signs, yield signs, flashing lights, regular traffic lights and because of the regular failure of Jeju-do drivers--residents, not tourists, to obey any of them, they've had to turn to rotaries to stop the traffic deaths.
So you want to turn the drunk driver at 3a.m. loose to decide it's OK to run the red light, stop sign, etc?
That's a very, very bad idea. |
I don't think a roundabout is going to stop a drunk driver from smashing into the person who is going around. People entering the roundabout still have to yield just like an intersection. |
Who said all the drivers were drunk?
No matter, the roundabout will force drivers to slow down, especially since they're preceded by quite aggressive speed bumps, and thus if there is an accident the chance of fatalities is markedly decreased. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
So you want to turn the drunk driver at 3a.m. loose to decide it's OK to run the red light, stop sign, etc?
|
Sober drivers between say, 10PM and 6AM, come to a complete stop at a red traffic light. If there is no oncoming traffic and there is clear visibility down all lanes, then yes, they should be able to proceed after carefully checking all directions, the same as a four-way stop.
As for drunk drivers, they pose a danger no matter what. No one is turning them loose. I don't hold the keys of every drunk driver in Korea and hand them out to run red lights.
| Quote: |
| because of the regular failure of Jeju-do drivers--residents, not tourists, |
What does this have to do with anything besides attempting to get in another "Koreans are stupid" shot to compensate for the fact that you have live here working for them and need to lash out?
Unless of course you are talking about Korean tourists, who constitute probably 95% of tourists in Jeju. Since you say that this is NOT because of tourists, you must be saying that Koreans are not the problem, as they are 95% of tourists!
And again, the OP was talking about ticketing in general, NOT JUST IN KOREA. I've already laid out several ideas for improving Korean road safety.
I do think some traffic tickets are unnecessary nitpicks or little more than revenue generators. Strict enforcement of certain ones instead of a more "officer's discretion" approach just comes across as heavy-handed and in some cases you've reached the point of diminishing returns between issuing citations and improving driver safety.
Speaking for myself, but I suspect there are some other drivers out there as well, while driving conditions in Korea do make us cringe and suffer in exasperation, we also do enjoy not having to CONSTANTLY be on the look out for cops and suddenly getting pulled over because slowly over time we built up speed to 10mph over or slightly went over the line. No speed traps, employed for the sole purpose of catching people accelerating through a downhill curve and nabbing them to slap on a 250 dollar ticket. No army of metermaids out there to write you a 25 dollar ticket the second your meter expires or to impede commerce by slapping fine after fine on delivery trucks (New York City) solely to finance the government. It's nice knowing I'm not going to get pulled over for some random BS excuse just to get Buford T. Justice looking to bust me on anything he can like expired registration and insurance (even though you are up to date- Everyone has had that time where they found it wedged in the manual in the glove box and had to go into court to get the thing waved). There's no reason people should be having to carry registration certificates in their cars anymore, it should all be computerized by now. It just still exists so American cops can write tickets.
Korea could use some more enforcement, and driving here is stressful. But there is also an element of freedom and relaxation here. I enjoy the fact that the sight of a Korean cop car with its lights on behind me doesn't cause me to crap myself in fear. |
So why are you arguing against yourself?
All the rest is just more tripe. You want to break the rules and you can do that in Korea so it's all just fine. It's a great place for those with a juvenile outlook on life.
BTW, my Jeju-do example was just that, an example of reckless driving that characterizes the way many Koreans drive. That you take it as a slam against Koreans is a knee-jerk defensive reaction that shows you so identify with Koreans that there are very few topics discussed here you can be objective about.
Not that it would matter much considering your zany approach to posting. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
| nicwr2002 wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
There are a lot of intersections where visibility is such that even after stopping and looking you would be unable to see a car coming which would nail you as you crossed against the red.
BTW, do you think Korean drivers are going to stop and look? They don;t now, so if the law in this case was relaxed it would make things worse.
Your last statement is your typical balderdash. |
And there are lots of intersections where sight lines are fine. Those that are tricky can have signs prohibiting stop and go.
Yes, there are many bad Korean drivers out there, there are also many that drive perfectly reasonably and would be able to handle such a system. Also, the nature of the question seemed to be talking about traffic tickets in general, not just in Korea.
As far as my last statement being balderdash, I disagree. I think its perfectly reasonable to accept the idea that someone who has a license should be trusted to have the judgment necessary to be able to come to a complete stop at a red light, look all ways, and proceed if there is no oncoming traffic. That's not rocket science. The light doesn't know better than the driver whether or not its safe to go.
If the light is green and a truck is barreling through with no sign of stopping, do you still go ahead? No, you wait until the truck passes through and then make sure its safe before proceeding under the green light. Just because the light is green, doesn't mean its safe to go. Just because the light is red, doesn't mean its unsafe to go. It's not the light that makes the decision, its the driver. The light is there to assist and regulate the driver during normal driving conditions and traffic flows. An empty street at 3AM is not normal conditions. A guy speeding through a red light is not normal conditions. In both cases, the judgment of the driver should supplant that of the traffic light.
Now is what I wrote above unreasonable balderdash? |
All of it.
For example, they are installing rotaries (roundabouts) at intersections all over Jeju-do because of so many collisions at them, many of which were at high speeds and resulted in deaths. There were stop signs, yield signs, flashing lights, regular traffic lights and because of the regular failure of Jeju-do drivers--residents, not tourists, to obey any of them, they've had to turn to rotaries to stop the traffic deaths.
So you want to turn the drunk driver at 3a.m. loose to decide it's OK to run the red light, stop sign, etc?
That's a very, very bad idea. |
I don't think a roundabout is going to stop a drunk driver from smashing into the person who is going around. People entering the roundabout still have to yield just like an intersection. |
Who said all the drivers were drunk?
No matter, the roundabout will force drivers to slow down, especially since they're preceded by quite aggressive speed bumps, and thus if there is an accident the chance of fatalities is markedly decreased. |
Great. Install more roundabouts at appropriate locations.
Still doesn't mean that people at red lights, with clear visibility and no oncoming traffic shouldn't be able to treat it like a 4-way stop at a stop sign and have to sit for 4 minutes while it cycles through. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:48 am Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| cabeza wrote: |
| Jesus. I know a lot of that is from increased car safety features but imagine what it must have been like driving here in the 1990s! |
I was kid when I was here to watch the '88 Olympics. It was horrid and almost heart attack worthy. Taxi drivers would go barreling down the opposite of traffic and quickly get back into the right side just before a bus, that wasn't slowing down, was going to hit them....
If you think the bus drivers are terrible now, you'd shit yourself in '88. And most of the inter-city freeways weren't built then. It was mostly 2 lanes or 4.
Another thing to note, it was really really hard to see a woman behind the wheel back then. Maybe like 1 in 30 cars was driven by a woman. Ownership was probably just under 1 car/family. |
And this is why when i try to talk to Koreans about this, I get the blank stare. For them, this is a massive improvement.
| Steelrails wrote: |
And again, the OP was talking about ticketing in general, NOT JUST IN KOREA. I've already laid out several ideas for improving Korean road safety. |
I read the OP as in relating to Korea... because that's what section of the forum this is in.
If someone posts in this section about the weather, I presume they are talking about in Korea - not global weather patterns. |
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