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Titus
Joined: 19 May 2012
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 Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Titus wrote: |
For a long time (forever) the Republicans have been the party of big business. The Tea Party is the divorce of corporate slush and mainline conservative politics. |
You really believe that? |
Yes. Corporate interests tried to turn them into proper Republicans with funny hats but failed. I don't know where the TP is going but it is outside of the normal big business/Republican nexus. |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:48 am Post subject: |
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| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
| geldedgoat wrote: |
| FriendlyDaegu wrote: |
| geldedgoat wrote: |
| … as of October 1st, my wife can no longer legally continue to see the gynecologist she's had since May? |
Just curious since I hadn't heard this: which state forced residents to change providers by Oct. 1st? |
Wonderful Tennessee, where State Republicans decided that the federal law wasn't bad enough, so they decided to exacerbate the pain by playing games with the Medicaid expansion. |
But isn't that more of an individual state that may be trying to tinker Obamacare in order to make it fail? |
The State Republicans are pursuing an agenda that will make it harder for people not already receiving some form of government-assisted insurance to get help, which is really just a continuation of the monstrous policies already in place. It's an issue of concern, yes, but a separate one from the new federal regulations that are forcing people with CHIP assistance away from their doctors.
This is also separate from my situation:
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Assuming that the supply of uninsured patients dries up after 2014 when ObamaCare goes into effect hospitals will have two options.
One will be to convert themselves into for-profit enterprises. This is already happening in places like Detroit, Boston, Scranton, and Miami–where for-profit chains are gobbling up old Catholic and nonprofit systems.
The other option would be for hospitals and governments to agree on a community benefit standard that unlike the old one does not depend on taking care of uninsured patients for free. Many people who work at nonprofit systems do so because they like the mission of caring for their community. So this would be a better option.
Redefining that mission might mean taking money that was going to go to build a new patient tower and instead providing free preventive health services, funding biomedical research, or pursuing some other charitable endeavor.
Will nonprofit hospitals be able to adapt before they get swallowed up? It will all become clear fairly soon. |
I've said elsewhere that I generally dislike the games we allow institutions to play in their bid for non-profit status, so this might not actually end up being a bad thing. I'm interested to see what the actual effects of this will be. |
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Titus
Joined: 19 May 2012
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| Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Titus wrote: |
Though I disagree with them generally on economic matters, on some very big issues they are the most sane group in the USA. |
They're the most insane. Tea Partiers can't govern whatsoever. |
Right. Healthcare.gov is a laughable disaster, Libya liberated into civil war, Putin embarrassing the superpower, wages decreasing, no changes in the financial system of any substance what so ever, no prosecutions, NSA spying, the "most transparent government ever" becomes the most closed.. Come on Kuros.
Who is mostly insane and can't govern? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Titus wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| Titus wrote: |
Though I disagree with them generally on economic matters, on some very big issues they are the most sane group in the USA. |
They're the most insane. Tea Partiers can't govern whatsoever. |
Right. Healthcare.gov is a laughable disaster, Libya liberated into civil war, Putin embarrassing the superpower, wages decreasing, no changes in the financial system of any substance what so ever, no prosecutions, NSA spying, the "most transparent government ever" becomes the most closed.. Come on Kuros.
Who is mostly insane and can't govern? |
Oh yes, Obama is bad so the Tea Party must be better.
Your resort to Obama-bashing to bolster the Tea Party shows how empty-handed you are. Really, you ought not defend parties unworthy of defense.
The Tea Party began out of some idiot's sad rant about bailing out homeowners . . . months after we bailed out the banks. Oh, sure, Tea Partiers are mad about the bank bailouts, but not so mad that they stopped it, because Tea Partiers are old Baby Boomers and they were glad someone bailed out their 401ks.
You want to back an unworthy cause, back the Tea Party. Yes, I'm far more critical of this position of yours than your decision to back Putin. |
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Titus
Joined: 19 May 2012
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| Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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The dichotomy isn't A is bad ergo B is good.
The government shutdown wasn't. The Republicans are the outer party; the loyal opposition. They're there for comic relief and function mostly as the illusion of dissent from Progress. They can't dial back prog reforms as the courts would rule any actual dissenting policy as "unconstitutional". (the constitution solidifies whatever prog victories have occurred).
The Tea Party actually wants politics, which the Party sees as the worst thing ever. Therefore: Propaganda. I'm taking issue with the propaganda and not supporting the Tea Party. I don't own any funny hats and I don't think the 50's (which led to the 60's) is a useful time to idolize.
So. I am going to continue to argue that the Tea Party is being distorted by the Party and I don't want to have to explain every time that I don't actually support the Tea Party. I oppose the Party. |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Really, you ought not defend parties unworthy of defense. |
Amusing. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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The OP wrote:
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| Let's hope the Republican party is a dying party. It will be good for the country to be rid of the party and for the party to be replaced with another conservative institution. |
The general public seems to agree with the original 'hope':
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| Only 20 percent think Republicans are “interested in doing what’s best for the country,” while 77 percent think they’re “interested in what’s best for themselves politically.” Among independents: 14-83. Among moderates: 18-81. Among seniors: 24-74. |
One commenter said if you counted only the poll responders outside the Deep South the numbers would be a lot worse for the GOTP. That's undoubtedly true.
Jonathan Chait got at the core of the initial post:
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| In the most important ways, though, the tea party’s strategy was not a strategy at all. On the surface, demanding an end to Obamacare in return for reopening the federal government was an insane negotiating strategy. Attempting to analyze these demands in strategic terms misses the point. It’s not a plan to achieve a defined legislative end. It’s a demonstration of dissent from a political faction that has no chance of winning through regular political channels. The problem they are attempting to solve in each case is not “how do we achieve this policy objective?” but “how can we express our outrage?” |
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/10/shutdown-was-not-a-strategy-at-all.html
Cruz says we'll have another re-play in January. As far as I can see, the only way out is if the Dems offer to cooperate with the 'moderates' in the GOP in selecting a new Speaker and freeze out the Tea Party. Together there could be a Farm Bill and Immigration Reform and avoid another shutdown. Unfortunately, the moderates have shown nothing but craven cowardice up to now. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| hmmm...why did that change fonts at the end? |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| The Tea Party in its infancy may have been a bunch of people upset at the bailouts and economic policies of GW's last year and Obama's first, but it morphed into an amalgamation of Palinidiocy, Limbaugh contrarianism, Dixie, and End Times anti-government paranoia, all encouraged by certain business elements. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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Utah GOP establishment not too happy about its junior Senator
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| As a result, Lee’s approval ratings in Utah have cratered, and prominent Republicans and local business executives are openly discussing the possibility of mounting a primary challenge against him. Top Republicans are also maneuvering to redesign the party’s nomination system in a way that would likely make it more difficult for Lee to win reelection in 2016. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
The OP wrote:
| Quote: |
| Let's hope the Republican party is a dying party. It will be good for the country to be rid of the party and for the party to be replaced with another conservative institution. |
The general public seems to agree with the original 'hope':
| Quote: |
| Only 20 percent think Republicans are “interested in doing what’s best for the country,” while 77 percent think they’re “interested in what’s best for themselves politically.” Among independents: 14-83. Among moderates: 18-81. Among seniors: 24-74. |
One commenter said if you counted only the poll responders outside the Deep South the numbers would be a lot worse for the GOTP. That's undoubtedly true.
Jonathan Chait got at the core of the initial post:
| Quote: |
| In the most important ways, though, the tea party’s strategy was not a strategy at all. On the surface, demanding an end to Obamacare in return for reopening the federal government was an insane negotiating strategy. Attempting to analyze these demands in strategic terms misses the point. It’s not a plan to achieve a defined legislative end. It’s a demonstration of dissent from a political faction that has no chance of winning through regular political channels. The problem they are attempting to solve in each case is not “how do we achieve this policy objective?” but “how can we express our outrage?” |
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/10/shutdown-was-not-a-strategy-at-all.html
Cruz says we'll have another re-play in January. As far as I can see, the only way out is if the Dems offer to cooperate with the 'moderates' in the GOP in selecting a new Speaker and freeze out the Tea Party. Together there could be a Farm Bill and Immigration Reform and avoid another shutdown. Unfortunately, the moderates have shown nothing but craven cowardice up to now. |
Given the political fallout from this shutdown, I am skeptical another will happen in January. Too early to tell I suppose, but right now I'm not expecting there to be another one this FY.
And while the shutdown might not overtly impact your average US taxpayer, I can say it does make running the government costlier and less efficient. Half my work day today was dealing with stuff specifically caused by the shut down. Fun times. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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Rand Paul's proposed constitutional amendment.
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'Section 1. Congress shall make no law applicable to a citizen of the United States that is not equally applicable to Congress.
'Section 2. Congress shall make no law applicable to a citizen of the United States that is not equally applicable to the executive branch of Government, including the President, Vice President, ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, and all other officers of the United States, including those provided for under this Constitution and by law, and inferior officers to the President established by law.
'Section 3. Congress shall make no law applicable to a citizen of the United States that is not equally applicable to judges of the Supreme Court of the United States, including the Chief Justice, and judges of such inferior courts as Congress may from time to time ordain and establish.
'Section 4. Nothing in this article shall preempt any specific provision of this Constitution.' |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:45 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
Rand Paul's proposed constitutional amendment.
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'Section 1. Congress shall make no law applicable to a citizen of the United States that is not equally applicable to Congress.
'Section 2. Congress shall make no law applicable to a citizen of the United States that is not equally applicable to the executive branch of Government, including the President, Vice President, ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, and all other officers of the United States, including those provided for under this Constitution and by law, and inferior officers to the President established by law.
'Section 3. Congress shall make no law applicable to a citizen of the United States that is not equally applicable to judges of the Supreme Court of the United States, including the Chief Justice, and judges of such inferior courts as Congress may from time to time ordain and establish.
'Section 4. Nothing in this article shall preempt any specific provision of this Constitution.' |
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DOA and a stunt to help him in 2016. But perhaps a step in the right direction. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:19 am Post subject: |
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Stunt indeed.
When a politician wants to be seen/heard doing something but doesn't want to actually do anything, he comes out in favor of appointing a commission or submitting an amendment. |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:48 am Post subject: |
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| Stunt status: likely. |
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