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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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 Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| goreality wrote: |
| Stan Rogers wrote: |
I like the South Korean police the way they are. They are not oppressive like in North Korea. They are not trigger happy like in those United States.
Koreans do things in a Korean way and that's just fine with me. |
I think there is a lot of merit in this comment. Once you figure things out, Korean cops ain't bad. |
There is a historical reason the Korean police have been pretty light handed in the last decade. Talk to some older Koreans about the police pre-2000's, especially during the dictatorial era before the 90's. Most middle class whites from western countries have little idea how bad the police can be, even for little things. And it's probably better than escalating a situation. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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In other countries though people will stop even if there is no police enforcement or cameras. Because they make a habit of respecting the principle and letter of the law.
Because they know that by so doing and encouraging others to do the same, they are in fact ultimately protecting their own safety. |
Are you serious? Ever been to America? People there jaywalk just as much. The bikers and pedestrians are out of control because they've been given carte blanche to the point where they can run piss drunk out onto a dark road in dark clothing get struck by someone and get millions in a law suit.
Similar to "the knockout game" there was a game going on UofM campus back home where people would deliberately pretend to run out in front of cars just to spook the drivers.
The only thing keeping people in line was a firm police force that wrote tickets for government funding and the threat of getting Rodney Kinged. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Popocatepetl wrote: |
| andrewchon wrote: |
| When you see zig-zag lines warning you are approaching a zebra crossing, the driver is to slow down and lookout for pedestrians. That's it. |
So they don't even have to stop for pedestrians or keep off the crossing? |
They'll stop, most of the time, but just don't be a dumbderriere and assume they will stop. Because you aren't going to win a shoving match against a car. Always look both ways before crossing, pretty much common sense when crossing a street. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| Popocatepetl wrote: |
| andrewchon wrote: |
| When you see zig-zag lines warning you are approaching a zebra crossing, the driver is to slow down and lookout for pedestrians. That's it. |
So they don't even have to stop for pedestrians or keep off the crossing? |
They'll stop, most of the time, but just don't be a dumbderriere and assume they will stop. Because you aren't going to win a shoving match against a car. Always look both ways before crossing, pretty much common sense when crossing a street. |
So if I'm crossing on a red (their red), it'd be "dumbderriere" to assume cars should/would stop?
Funny - I thought that's how this system operates. If we didn't trust other drivers to follow the rules, EVERY intersection would be considered an uncontrolled intersection.
There has to be a certain amount of confidence that ppl are going to follow the rules. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| So if I'm crossing on a red (their red), it'd be "dumbderriere" to assume cars should/would stop? |
Yes. It's a car, not some guy on a bicycle. Maybe the guy is in a rush and trying to beat the yellow, or just not paying attention. Maybe a patch of ice. Anyways, you just don't go waltzing into a crossing assuming a 1 ton vehicle is going to stop. Take a glance, if the car is slowing down, it's probably safe to cross, but be aware of it. And also the other side (well all around you), because maybe another car might lose control and go barreling in your direction. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| So if I'm crossing on a red (their red), it'd be "dumbderriere" to assume cars should/would stop? |
Yes. It's a car, not some guy on a bicycle. Maybe the guy is in a rush and trying to beat the yellow, or just not paying attention. Maybe a patch of ice. Anyways, you just don't go waltzing into a crossing assuming a 1 ton vehicle is going to stop. Take a glance, if the car is slowing down, it's probably safe to cross, but be aware of it. And also the other side (well all around you), because maybe another car might lose control and go barreling in your direction. |
But at what point does the system break down? If I was to carry this philosophy into driving, I'd be causing accidents with this sort of caution.
There has to be an assumption that people will follow the law. Sure, caution can be advised, but there's a point where if you're in that much doubt, you won't be able to function.
If I followed your advice and was to not step out in front of threatening traffic, I wouldn't get anywhere each day. Each intersection I go through in Seoul is an exercise in exactly that. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| So if I'm crossing on a red (their red), it'd be "dumbderriere" to assume cars should/would stop? |
Yes. It's a car, not some guy on a bicycle. Maybe the guy is in a rush and trying to beat the yellow, or just not paying attention. Maybe a patch of ice. Anyways, you just don't go waltzing into a crossing assuming a 1 ton vehicle is going to stop. Take a glance, if the car is slowing down, it's probably safe to cross, but be aware of it. And also the other side (well all around you), because maybe another car might lose control and go barreling in your direction. |
But at what point does the system break down? If I was to carry this philosophy into driving, I'd be causing accidents with this sort of caution.
There has to be an assumption that people will follow the law. Sure, caution can be advised, but there's a point where if you're in that much doubt, you won't be able to function.
If I followed your advice and was to not step out in front of threatening traffic, I wouldn't get anywhere each day. Each intersection I go through in Seoul is an exercise in exactly that. |
The difference is if you're in a car, and get into a collision with another car you have a chance to survive. So your more willing to take a risk and assume most will follow some rules. But, if you're on foot and have a collision with a car, you're probably going to end up much worse than the car. Kind of like why way more people are afraid of flying than driving. A mid-air collision will probably end up with 100% fatalities. Two cars colliding, there is a chance of survival. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| So if I'm crossing on a red (their red), it'd be "dumbderriere" to assume cars should/would stop? |
Yes. It's a car, not some guy on a bicycle. Maybe the guy is in a rush and trying to beat the yellow, or just not paying attention. Maybe a patch of ice. Anyways, you just don't go waltzing into a crossing assuming a 1 ton vehicle is going to stop. Take a glance, if the car is slowing down, it's probably safe to cross, but be aware of it. And also the other side (well all around you), because maybe another car might lose control and go barreling in your direction. |
But at what point does the system break down? If I was to carry this philosophy into driving, I'd be causing accidents with this sort of caution.
There has to be an assumption that people will follow the law. Sure, caution can be advised, but there's a point where if you're in that much doubt, you won't be able to function.
If I followed your advice and was to not step out in front of threatening traffic, I wouldn't get anywhere each day. Each intersection I go through in Seoul is an exercise in exactly that. |
The difference is if you're in a car, and get into a collision with another car you have a chance to survive. So your more willing to take a risk and assume most will follow some rules. But, if you're on foot and have a collision with a car, you're probably going to end up much worse than the car. Kind of like why way more people are afraid of flying than driving. A mid-air collision will probably end up with 100% fatalities. Two cars colliding, there is a chance of survival. |
You're missing my point - at a certain point - ya have to trust. Ya have to trust in others and the system.
As I said, if I was to "be cautious" (read: not put my life on the line) every time I crossed the street - I wouldn't be crossing many streets here. Cars, and especially busses, are notorious in Seoul for rushing right up to, and past, the stop line. Any cautious person seeing that would NOT proceed. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| So if I'm crossing on a red (their red), it'd be "dumbderriere" to assume cars should/would stop? |
Yes. It's a car, not some guy on a bicycle. Maybe the guy is in a rush and trying to beat the yellow, or just not paying attention. Maybe a patch of ice. Anyways, you just don't go waltzing into a crossing assuming a 1 ton vehicle is going to stop. Take a glance, if the car is slowing down, it's probably safe to cross, but be aware of it. And also the other side (well all around you), because maybe another car might lose control and go barreling in your direction. |
But at what point does the system break down? If I was to carry this philosophy into driving, I'd be causing accidents with this sort of caution.
There has to be an assumption that people will follow the law. Sure, caution can be advised, but there's a point where if you're in that much doubt, you won't be able to function.
If I followed your advice and was to not step out in front of threatening traffic, I wouldn't get anywhere each day. Each intersection I go through in Seoul is an exercise in exactly that. |
The difference is if you're in a car, and get into a collision with another car you have a chance to survive. So your more willing to take a risk and assume most will follow some rules. But, if you're on foot and have a collision with a car, you're probably going to end up much worse than the car. Kind of like why way more people are afraid of flying than driving. A mid-air collision will probably end up with 100% fatalities. Two cars colliding, there is a chance of survival. |
You're missing my point - at a certain point - ya have to trust. Ya have to trust in others and the system.
As I said, if I was to "be cautious" (read: not put my life on the line) every time I crossed the street - I wouldn't be crossing many streets here. Cars, and especially busses, are notorious in Seoul for rushing right up to, and past, the stop line. Any cautious person seeing that would NOT proceed. |
When I cross the street I'm always wary of that speeding bus, or dump truck. In my mind I keep an eye out, first car stops, okay slowly walk across, looks like lanes 2 and 3 are safe, oh wait a minute, lane 4 has a bus coming full speed... let me hang back in lane 3's space to see if the guy is going to slow down... proceed when safe. All this thought process
within a span of like 3 seconds.
I don't trust, but I assume a car won't suddenly speed up, I might assume that the car coming up is going to stop, so I'll either hang back, or rush my speed across that lane's space. Depends on what I notice that car is doing.
Another example, is when a car is in an ally waiting to go onto the main road. Do you walk behind or in-front of the car? I usually favor walking behind it, it's probably safer, and I'm assuming the guy is in D, not Reverse.
And I'm assuming most people do not want to run a person down. So, hopefully nobody is going to go barreling across 3 lanes just to hit me. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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That's part of my point though - you have to make assumptions to function.
Question for ya, man - do ya think that these "assumptions" and cautions might/should vary depending on the city? |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
That's part of my point though - you have to make assumptions to function.
Question for ya, man - do ya think that these "assumptions" and cautions might/should vary depending on the city? |
I maybe should have said don't 'trust' the car to stop. But assume, and pay attention to any other actions that may run counter to your assumptions.
Of course it changes, although my experience is mostly from a driving standpoint. I'm from Calgary, and know Calgary drivers can't merge that well. Be ready to slam on the brakes when driving past a merge zone. But when I was in Toronto, it was mostly smooth merging. Pretty much drive past a merge zone without incident. But they drive fast, much faster than what I've encountered in Alberta. Also, drivers in Quebec are probably the rudest drivers I have ever encountered ever (yes ruder than Korean drivers). In Quebec I'll quickly go into the slow lane once I over take a car. Surprisingly, in the NE US the drivers a very courteous. However, California drivers love switching lanes without signalling. |
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BackRow
Joined: 28 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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| They're going to make billions every month doing this |
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Savant
Joined: 25 May 2007
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| Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:32 am Post subject: |
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| I've noticed lately another bad driving practice that's annoying me: Korean drivers breaking into a corner rather than before it. You can normally see these drivers approaching at high speed and most times I just let them past whilst cursing them under my breath but now and again it's fun to step out onto a crossing because they expect you to just wait for them. It warms my heart seeing these idiots forced to break at the corner and have their journey interrupted by mere seconds. |
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denverdeath
Joined: 21 May 2005
Location: Boo-sahn
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| Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:58 am Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| So if I'm crossing on a red (their red), it'd be "dumbderriere" to assume cars should/would stop? |
Yes. It's a car, not some guy on a bicycle. Maybe the guy is in a rush and trying to beat the yellow, or just not paying attention. Maybe a patch of ice. Anyways, you just don't go waltzing into a crossing assuming a 1 ton vehicle is going to stop. Take a glance, if the car is slowing down, it's probably safe to cross, but be aware of it. And also the other side (well all around you), because maybe another car might lose control and go barreling in your direction. |
But at what point does the system break down? If I was to carry this philosophy into driving, I'd be causing accidents with this sort of caution.
There has to be an assumption that people will follow the law. Sure, caution can be advised, but there's a point where if you're in that much doubt, you won't be able to function.
If I followed your advice and was to not step out in front of threatening traffic, I wouldn't get anywhere each day. Each intersection I go through in Seoul is an exercise in exactly that. |
The difference is if you're in a car, and get into a collision with another car you have a chance to survive. So your more willing to take a risk and assume most will follow some rules. But, if you're on foot and have a collision with a car, you're probably going to end up much worse than the car. Kind of like why way more people are afraid of flying than driving. A mid-air collision will probably end up with 100% fatalities. Two cars colliding, there is a chance of survival. |
You're missing my point - at a certain point - ya have to trust. Ya have to trust in others and the system.
As I said, if I was to "be cautious" (read: not put my life on the line) every time I crossed the street - I wouldn't be crossing many streets here. Cars, and especially busses, are notorious in Seoul for rushing right up to, and past, the stop line. Any cautious person seeing that would NOT proceed. |
When I cross the street I'm always wary of that speeding bus, or dump truck. In my mind I keep an eye out, first car stops, okay slowly walk across, looks like lanes 2 and 3 are safe, oh wait a minute, lane 4 has a bus coming full speed... let me hang back in lane 3's space to see if the guy is going to slow down... proceed when safe. All this thought process
within a span of like 3 seconds.
I don't trust, but I assume a car won't suddenly speed up, I might assume that the car coming up is going to stop, so I'll either hang back, or rush my speed across that lane's space. Depends on what I notice that car is doing.
Another example, is when a car is in an ally waiting to go onto the main road. Do you walk behind or in-front of the car? I usually favor walking behind it, it's probably safer, and I'm assuming the guy is in D, not Reverse.
And I'm assuming most people do not want to run a person down. So, hopefully nobody is going to go barreling across 3 lanes just to hit me. |
I'm jumping into this discussion a bit late.
I bolded what you said for a reason. I think I, and probably you, and probably most folks back home, would do what you said - walk BEHIND the car - for, maybe, self-preservation? At least in Busan, however, it's been pretty much 100% the other way round, at least for me. So, keep that in mind, especially when you're driving. I see it EVERY day. I drive EVERY day. And, yes, they walk in FRONT of the car - I'm pretty sure they're NOT trying to be hit, and also NOT trying to be too aggressive. Just strange. I might be half-way out into the sidewalk, trying to merge into a busy street, and they'll walk out into oncoming traffic to ensure they're walking in front of my car, and not behind it.
Can anyone explain it? |
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Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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| ^^They want to make you wait. |
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