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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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 Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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The use of comfort women is so pervasive in Korean society that it's an international issue. Again, from the link:
A Los Angeles police spokesman said that about 90 percent of the department’s 70-80 monthly arrests for prostitution involve Korean women and Los Angeles police estimates that there are 8,000 Korean prostitutes working in that city and its suburbs. Korean women`s customers in foreign countries are mostly Korean men.
It's pretty obvious there's a very, very high tolerance for the use of comfort women in Korean society...as long as it's not the Japanese doing the pimping. |
Wow I had no idea Los Angeles was part of Korean society.
And not only that but this is also problematic
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Read the part about Russian prostitutes in this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_South_Korea
In 2000, 3,064 Russians entered South Korea on E-6 visas, 2,927 of them women.
When only 4% of the E-6 visa recipients from Russia are men, it's an understatement to say it's sometimes used for human trafficking. For all practical purposes, the E-6 visa is a Sex Trafficking visa that is only sometimes used for legitimate, non-trafficking purposes. In short, it's state sponsored sex trafficking. |
Are you serious? You are going to use the stats for ONE YEAR 13 years ago and on that flimsy basis claim the E-6 visa is a "sex trafficking visa"?
Do you have any idea how absolutely silly that sounds? |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| EZE wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Just because the visa is sometimes used for that purpose, doesn't mean that it is explicitly and exclusively used for that purpose. That's like saying green cards for mail order brides are state sponsored sex-slavery. |
Read the part about Russian prostitutes in this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_South_Korea
In 2000, 3,064 Russians entered South Korea on E-6 visas, 2,927 of them women.
When only 4% of the E-6 visa recipients from Russia are men, it's an understatement to say it's sometimes used for human trafficking. For all practical purposes, the E-6 visa is a Sex Trafficking visa that is only sometimes used for legitimate, non-trafficking purposes. In short, it's state sponsored sex trafficking.
The same link says there are "hundreds of thousands" of Chinese women working in prostitution in South Korea. That means the number of Chinese comfort women in South Korea this very second is larger than the number of all nationalities of comfort women used by Japan during all of WWII.
Think about the Filipinas that are trafficked in on E-6 visas to be comfort women outside of US military bases in Korea. The purpose of their sexual slavery closely parallels that of the Korean women who had to service Japanese and Korean soldiers during WWII.
And then, of course, are the Korean women. In the link:
In 2003, the Korean Institute of Criminology announced that 260,000 women, or 1 of 25 of young Korean women, may be engaged in the sex industry. However, the Korean Feminist Association alleged that from 514,000 to 1.2 million Korean women participate in the prostitution industry.
The use of comfort women is so pervasive in Korean society that it's an international issue. Again, from the link:
A Los Angeles police spokesman said that about 90 percent of the department’s 70-80 monthly arrests for prostitution involve Korean women and Los Angeles police estimates that there are 8,000 Korean prostitutes working in that city and its suburbs. Korean women`s customers in foreign countries are mostly Korean men.
It's pretty obvious there's a very, very high tolerance for the use of comfort women in Korean society...as long as it's not the Japanese doing the pimping. |
Yes, but you can't deny someone an entertainment visa simply on the basis of gender or national origin. If they have all their ducks in order, you have to send them in, regardless of your suspicions.
I don't doubt that it is used for that, but you are going to have an entertainment visa so Eminem or Jamiroquai can come here and have a concert and so on. Unfortunately, the byproduct of that is that some shady people can exploit that system for illegal gain. That's unfortunate, but that's the nature of the system.
And you do get small time artists and entertainers coming here like orchestras or the Australian cast of 'Wicked' or jazz artists or DJs and so on, so small clubs have to be able to pull this off as well. You can't just set a huge fee on the thing.
How exactly would you close this loophole? Can you show me where in the law it is allowing this to happen?
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Fox- I'll get to Texas and the Civil War in a bit...that'll take some time. |
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saram_
Joined: 13 May 2008
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EZE
Joined: 05 May 2012
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Quote: |
The use of comfort women is so pervasive in Korean society that it's an international issue. Again, from the link:
A Los Angeles police spokesman said that about 90 percent of the department’s 70-80 monthly arrests for prostitution involve Korean women and Los Angeles police estimates that there are 8,000 Korean prostitutes working in that city and its suburbs. Korean women`s customers in foreign countries are mostly Korean men.
It's pretty obvious there's a very, very high tolerance for the use of comfort women in Korean society...as long as it's not the Japanese doing the pimping. |
Wow I had no idea Los Angeles was part of Korean society. |
Reread "Korean women`s customers in foreign countries are mostly Korean men." I consider Korean women and Korean men to be Korean society.
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
And not only that but this is also problematic
| Quote: |
Read the part about Russian prostitutes in this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_South_Korea
In 2000, 3,064 Russians entered South Korea on E-6 visas, 2,927 of them women.
When only 4% of the E-6 visa recipients from Russia are men, it's an understatement to say it's sometimes used for human trafficking. For all practical purposes, the E-6 visa is a Sex Trafficking visa that is only sometimes used for legitimate, non-trafficking purposes. In short, it's state sponsored sex trafficking. |
Are you serious? You are going to use the stats for ONE YEAR 13 years ago and on that flimsy basis claim the E-6 visa is a "sex trafficking visa"?
Do you have any idea how absolutely silly that sounds? |
When only 4% of Russian E-6 recipients were male and you say the E-6 visa isn't primarily a sex trafficking tool, do you have any idea how absolutely silly that sounds? You're not that naïve and neither is the Korean government.
| Steelrails wrote: |
Yes, but you can't deny someone an entertainment visa simply on the basis of gender or national origin. If they have all their ducks in order, you have to send them in, regardless of your suspicions.
I don't doubt that it is used for that, but you are going to have an entertainment visa so Eminem or Jamiroquai can come here and have a concert and so on. Unfortunately, the byproduct of that is that some shady people can exploit that system for illegal gain. That's unfortunate, but that's the nature of the system.
And you do get small time artists and entertainers coming here like orchestras or the Australian cast of 'Wicked' or jazz artists or DJs and so on, so small clubs have to be able to pull this off as well. You can't just set a huge fee on the thing.
How exactly would you close this loophole? Can you show me where in the law it is allowing this to happen? |
Actually, Russians haven't been able to come to Korea on E-6 visas since 2003. And that was because the Russian government wasn't as apathetic about the issue as the governments of South Korea, the United States, and the Philippines. These days, 88% of the people in Korea on E-6 visas are women from the Philippines. Let's not even try to compare those women to Aretha Franklin, Eminem, or the Vienna Philharmonic. The Korean government knows what it's doing.
You know who you sound like, right? You sound like the Japanese apologists who explain away the WWII comfort women.
Obviously the usage of comfort women by Japan during WWII was a huge crime, but what I'm saying is that there are more Korean comfort women now in 2013 than there ever were in the 1940s. And Koreans use more Chinese comfort women in 2013 than the Japanese did during WWII. Until the Korean people and the Korean government make formal apologies to current Korean comfort women, as well as to the Filipina and Chinese comfort women in Korea, they come off as childish hypocrites when they demand apologies from other governments for the same crime. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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Actually, Russians haven't been able to come to Korea on E-6 visas since 2003. And that was because the Russian government wasn't as apathetic about the issue as the governments of South Korea, the United States, and the Philippines. These days, 88% of the people in Korea on E-6 visas are women from the Philippines. Let's not even try to compare those women to Aretha Franklin, Eminem, or the Vienna Philharmonic. The Korean government knows what it's doing.
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So please enlightened one, tell us all how Korea should write its visa laws to prevent this, yet to still allow legitimate entertainers. I've asked you repeatedly about the specific flaws in the law and the procedure and how they can be overcome.
Basically your argument is that a law that permits people to sell alcoholic beverages is the equivalent of the government endorsing underage drinking and drinking and driving.
The entertainment visa enables entertainers, both legitimate and illegitimate to enter the country. What specific language or powers in the law enable the illegitimate ones to enter? How can those loopholes be closed without discriminating against specific countries? Should Korea just ban ALL entertainers?
Without a specific course of action and clearly enumerated measures, you are just spewing a bunch of froth and foam. Might as well scream "Guns are Bad" or "War is Wrong". |
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cabeza
Joined: 29 Sep 2012
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
Basically your argument is that a law that permits people to sell alcoholic beverages is the equivalent of the government endorsing underage drinking and drinking and driving. |
The king of the shitty analogy strikes again!
Immigration is a direct arm of the government. They have a fair bit of control over that.
Whereas their control over each an every liquor store is somewhat limited and in many instances, non-existent. |
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KOREAN_MAN
Joined: 01 Oct 2006
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| cabeza wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
Basically your argument is that a law that permits people to sell alcoholic beverages is the equivalent of the government endorsing underage drinking and drinking and driving. |
The king of the shitty analogy strikes again!
Immigration is a direct arm of the government. They have a fair bit of control over that.
Whereas their control over each an every liquor store is somewhat limited and in many instances, non-existent. |
They have as much control over liquor as they do immigration- In order to sell it, you need a license. You need to follow regulations, and you are likely subject to inspection and random searches.
Anyways again, what is the Korean government supposed to do? Get rid of entertainment visas? Make the fees for traveling artists so exorbitant that only major acts can come into Korea? (So long classical, jazz, and metal musicians and thespians) Ban entertainment visas from certain countries (sounds a bit racist to me)? Male-only visas?
In no way, shape, or form does the Korean government endorse this process. Just because a government issues a permit for something (immigration, driving, owning a firearm, manufacture and sale of food & drugs, alcohol distribution, etc.) does not mean it endorses and is responsible for any abuses by people using those permits and systems to commit crimes.
Duh. This is a concept a 4th grader should be able to understand. |
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Lefil
Joined: 06 Nov 2013
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| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
Information about Independence Gate is freely available for Koreans to see. They don't hide the fact, even english sites freely admit it was a monument for the 'spirit of independence away from previous Korean arrangement as a Chinese tributary state'.
In the last 50 years teaching hanja has been spotty, depending on the whims on the government. Sometimes they'd mandate it's learning, and other times they'd eliminated. It maybe changed 5 times before the 1980's. It has to do with nationalistic reasons, not some 'conspiracy' to 'hide' shaming facts from the people.
There are tons of people born pre-1980's that are very comfortable in hanja. And there are more than enough young Korean that will learn hanja out of pure interest. But there are also a lot that couldn't care. Now, it's taught in most schools, but it's barely used. I doubt it's because they want to hide historical fact, because any motivated student who wants to major in history will have to learn hanja to be able to read all those historical documents.
Argue all you want, but in this case Japan was wrong to colonize Korea, no matter how inept Korean leaders were. |
I think that you have never read Korean history textbooks even once. None of Korean text book teachs Japan first liberated Korea from China (Qing Dynasty) and gave Korea independence in 1895. They don't teach the first article of Shimonoseki Treaty (treaty signed by Japan and Qing). Do you know that Koreans claim they have a 5,000+ year history? It isn't just historians, it's the whole populace, and the deluge of propaganda has been so successful that even some foreigners are parroting this kind of tripe. Koreans love to make those false claims to make Koreans feel better about themselves. |
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Lefil
Joined: 06 Nov 2013
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| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:58 am Post subject: |
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Has Korean government ever shown the slightest bit of remorse for Korea's history of comfort women system? Many of women were tricked and forced to be prostitutes. This is an unpleasant topic for Korea and they want to hide it. Hypocrisy from Koreans on human rights amazes me.
"Women outside"
http://youtu.be/BtlaRjFhJII
"US soldiers have been stationed in special Korean military camps since the end of the conflict with North Korea in the early '50s. Though it is not officially sanctioned, many of the soldiers frequently avail themselves with Korean prostitutes to boost their morale. This documentary examines the plight of these exploited women, many of whom were forced into becoming sexual servants. "
http://www.nytimes.com/movies/movie/136073/The-Women-Outside/overview |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Lefil wrote: |
| None of Korean text book teachs Japan first liberated Korea from China (Qing Dynasty) and gave Korea independence in 1895. They don't teach the first article of Shimonoseki Treaty (treaty signed by Japan and Qing). |
Liberated? That's rich... Only to turn around and colonize them. The Shimonoseki Treaty essentially have Japan free access to Korea. |
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EZE
Joined: 05 May 2012
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| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
So please enlightened one, tell us all how Korea should write its visa laws to prevent this, yet to still allow legitimate entertainers. I've asked you repeatedly about the specific flaws in the law and the procedure and how they can be overcome.
The entertainment visa enables entertainers, both legitimate and illegitimate to enter the country. What specific language or powers in the law enable the illegitimate ones to enter? How can those loopholes be closed without discriminating against specific countries? Should Korea just ban ALL entertainers? |
In order to be issued an E-2 visa for the first time, a person has to do an interview at a South Korean embassy or South Korean consulate. A person applying for an E-2 visa has to provide a clean federal criminal background check and get it apostilled by the Department of State. An applicant also has to provide proof of a four year university degree, apostilled by the Department of State.
What are the requirements for someone to get an E-6 visa? Do they have to do an interview at a South Korean embassy or a South Korean consulate? Do they have to provide any sort of documentation or proof about their background?
The difference in the way South Korea treats E-2 visa applicants as opposed to E-6 applicants perfectly illustrates the Korean public's general mindset about sexual exploitation and rape.
If even 1 in 100,000 E-2 holders rapes a Korean, there's a very large public concern and the application process for an E-2 visa becomes more rigorous. But when over 90% of E-6 holders are sexually exploited and are raped, and everyone knows it, nobody cares, because all of the victims are foreign and many of the sexual predators are Korean.
And everyone knows there are more Korean comfort women today in 2013 than there were in the 1940s, but nobody cares because it's mostly Koreans sexually exploiting and raping the comfort women instead of the Japanese, so that makes it socially acceptable.
Here's a breakdown of the South Korean point of view:
Korean victim & Korean perpetrator: the Korean public is silent.
Foreign victim & Korean perpetrator: the Korean public is silent.
Korean victim & foreign perpetrator: "I DEMAND AN APOLOGY!!!!!!!" |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| EZE wrote: |
The difference in the way South Korea treats E-2 visa applicants as opposed to E-6 applicants perfectly illustrates the Korean public's general mindset about sexual exploitation and rape.
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Actually, I'd say it perfectly illustrates the Korean public's general mindset about child safety.
| EZE wrote: |
| But when over 90% of E-6 holders are sexually exploited and are raped, and everyone knows it, nobody cares, because all of the victims are foreign and many of the sexual predators are Korean. |
Over 90% of E-6 visa holders have been raped? |
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Lefil
Joined: 06 Nov 2013
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| Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
Liberated? That's rich... Only to turn around and colonize them. The Shimonoseki Treaty essentially have Japan free access to Korea. |
If Korea wants to blame anyone for the annexation, all they need do is look into a mirror and the guilty will show themselves. The Prime Minister of Korea “Lee Wan-yong” and the largest Korean political party supported the annexation. The annexation was fulfilled with two countries' intention to unite. And the annexation of Korea in 1910 was internationally recognised. In fact, western countries like USA, UK never condemned it at that time. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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In order to be issued an E-2 visa for the first time, a person has to do an interview at a South Korean embassy or South Korean consulate. A person applying for an E-2 visa has to provide a clean federal criminal background check and get it apostilled by the Department of State. An applicant also has to provide proof of a four year university degree, apostilled by the Department of State.
What are the requirements for someone to get an E-6 visa? Do they have to do an interview at a South Korean embassy or a South Korean consulate? Do they have to provide any sort of documentation or proof about their background?
The difference in the way South Korea treats E-2 visa applicants as opposed to E-6 applicants perfectly illustrates the Korean public's general mindset about sexual exploitation and rape. |
The difference illustrates the general public's mindset about teachers and kids vs. artists passing through.
First off, if you require CBCs and drug tests for musicians and actors you might as well just close down shop. I mean come on, are you going to demand that Eminem submits to an interview with the police and has to go through the hospital? Please.
Regardless, I think you are failing to understand the distinction between a loophole and a program endorsed by the government. The E-6 visa is a loophole. One that you can't easily close without putting an undue hardship on legitimate entertainers or turning your country into a pariah for musicians, actors, and film studios.
| Quote: |
| Korean victim & Korean perpetrator: the Korean public is silent. |
Do you actually believe that? Do you even watch or read the news here?
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| Foreign victim & Korean perpetrator: the Korean public is silent. |
Exactly what happened with Shane Youman a few months back ago, oh wait...
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| And everyone knows there are more Korean comfort women today in 2013 than there were in the 1940s, but nobody cares because it's mostly Koreans sexually exploiting and raping the comfort women instead of the Japanese, so that makes it socially acceptable. |
There's a difference between private enterprise and criminal operators vs. official government action and military units engaged in activity backed by civilian authorities.
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| If Korea wants to blame anyone for the annexation, all they need do is look into a mirror and the guilty will show themselves. The Prime Minister of Korea “Lee Wan-yong” and the largest Korean political party supported the annexation. The annexation was fulfilled with two countries' intention to unite. And the annexation of Korea in 1910 was internationally recognised. In fact, western countries like USA, UK never condemned it at that time. |
Well what should they have done?
Everyone talks about being some brave freedom fighter, but if you handed most of those guys a rifle and threw them in front of an advancing tank column backed by regular infantry, put them under artillery fire, and had their friend next to them have his head exploded, they'd sing a different tune with their feet. |
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