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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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 Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:26 am Post subject: |
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| alongway wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
| Deja wrote: |
Koreans expect discounts... what we most often pay for anything in Korea is at least 10% higher than what Koreans pay.
I have a friend who carries a wallet with 30+ different point cards (from KT, which gives him 10% discount just about anywhere, where no other crap works, to Samsung and Lotte which offer 50% discount for many things).
That's on top of asking for a discount at a store.
I went to buy an anti-allergy blanket. The shown price was 1.000.000. As soon as we looked at the price, they offered it for 800.000. When we said we'll consider it, it was already 700.000. By the time we finished the talks, the total cost was 1.300.000 for 2 blankets and pillow cases (cases were 300.000). That's 50% off... and we got two 50.000 KRW discount coupo
The prices at e-Mart or such might be ridicolous, but elsewhere haggling is 90% of the price in the East (not just Korea, but anywhere from Turkey, via the Middle East and Singapore, Hong Kong, to Japan/Korea) |
Believe me, the people buying from the U.S. have those same credit cards. It was still cheaper.
BTW, I'm a foreigner and I have credit cards that give me a discount. They aren't a big secret.
As for 50% off with a credit card, I call BS. |
There are plenty of credit cards that give 50% discounts, but they work on points. You have to have the points to exchange for cash. Depending on how much you use the cards, you might be able to make one or two big purchases in your life like that.
As far as saving money goes on black friday, I can't imagine Koreans saved money buying washing machines in the states... the shipping on those would be insane. They're bulky and extremely heavy.
as far as black friday prices are in the states, merchants are still making a profit. Their black friday prices are still above their cost, you want to see a rip-off, there it is. |
Using points is not a true discount since you first have to spend a certain amount of money to then get a "discount." The more you spend the more you save--right. And that "discount" is already built into the prices. Just like those 300,000 won pillow cases. That's funny stuff.
Yes, at first glance it seems absurd that they could buy, for example, a refrigerator, pay to have it shipped, and then pay the customs and that they would save enough money to make that all worthwhile. But they did.
Making a profit is not equivalent to ripping someone off. Of course retailers make a profit. That's how they stay in business. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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Well thank goodness I can go to the U.S. where there certainly isn't any feeling from the people about business owners ripping off the general population. 
You could sell people TVs for a dollar and a bunch would still complain because it was only available in black. |
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Deja
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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Bloody true  |
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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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Using points is not a true discount since you first have to spend a certain amount of money to then get a "discount." The more you spend the more you save--right. And that "discount" is already built into the prices. Just like those 300,000 won pillow cases. That's funny stuff.
Yes, at first glance it seems absurd that they could buy, for example, a refrigerator, pay to have it shipped, and then pay the customs and that they would save enough money to make that all worthwhile. But they did.
Making a profit is not equivalent to ripping someone off. Of course retailers make a profit. That's how they stay in business. |
The points aren't built into prices.
You get points for buying things in general with your card, then certain businesses give up to 50% off using those points as cash, some of them can even building up hundreds or thousands of dollars in points.
I'd like to see a breakdown of the shipping cost and customs on a washing machine or refrigerator like that.
My point wasn't that they make a profit, my point was that when they offer those black friday savings of 60-90%, they are still making a profit. The rip-off is the regular prices they're charging you the rest of the year. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| alongway wrote: |
You have to keep in mind that exchange doesn't automatically correct itself.
How long ago was that $640 USD worth near a million in Korea?
When Canada's exchange rate was really all over the place a lot of Canadians were getting upset because the price between Canada and the US was really out of whack.
It took a long time for some of those industries to correct prices. |
I said this exact same thing in nearly every price comparison thread (usually regarding food). You can't just trot out the exchange rate of the day and say X is cheaper than Y… because rates fluctuate. In my time here, I've seen the CDN $ go from the 700s, to around 1300… and now it's back to about 1000 - yet does that accurately reflect costs?
No way. |
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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Food is slightly different than other products though. Shorter shelf life means constant fluctuation of prices and more response to the exchange rate. Perishable foods should be the first products to respond to big exchange rate changes. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Savant wrote: |
The Chaebol are slowly waking up to these influx of US goods into Korea by offering to acknowledge warranties on electronic items, even if they originate in the US. However, they could lower prices to make domestic products as competitive to their US equivalents but Korea has too many middle men wanting to get their maximum profit on goods.
Korean consumers are waking up to rip-off Korea. |
Imagine less Samsung types making their 5 million won salaries a month just for pretending to look busy and suck up to their ajossi boss. Imagine less folks walking around smuggly spending company funds on hookers. Imagine if prices were cheaper and gold diggers had to get a job themselves because there were less rich fellows to chase around.
These chaebols do have a monoply on many things and should probably break up into seperate companies. True capitalism means competition and not two or three large companies monoploizing and cozying up to the government. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| alongway wrote: |
| Quote: |
Using points is not a true discount since you first have to spend a certain amount of money to then get a "discount." The more you spend the more you save--right. And that "discount" is already built into the prices. Just like those 300,000 won pillow cases. That's funny stuff.
Yes, at first glance it seems absurd that they could buy, for example, a refrigerator, pay to have it shipped, and then pay the customs and that they would save enough money to make that all worthwhile. But they did.
Making a profit is not equivalent to ripping someone off. Of course retailers make a profit. That's how they stay in business. |
The points aren't built into prices.
You get points for buying things in general with your card, then certain businesses give up to 50% off using those points as cash, some of them can even building up hundreds or thousands of dollars in points.
I'd like to see a breakdown of the shipping cost and customs on a washing machine or refrigerator like that.
My point wasn't that they make a profit, my point was that when they offer those black friday savings of 60-90%, they are still making a profit. The rip-off is the regular prices they're charging you the rest of the year. |
I know how points work. You obviously don't know how businesses work. They're not giving you anything.
You earn points by spending, spending much more than you'll "save" by using the points. Also, due to the psychology of points, often spending more than you normally would. You use the points in their store, buying more of their goods at inflated prices so that they lose nothing by giving you a "discount."
As for a breakdown on prices go to Best Buy or Walmart and check it out.
As for rip-offs, you're still wrong. Competition keeps prices down. The funny thing about Black Friday sales is often the same goods are on sale at lower prices during the regular year.
Besides, who buys things at regular price when there are so many sales? Paying retail is for suckers.
BTW, a quick Internet search shows you can get a regular-priced allergen free goose down blanket for $180. Good thing you got such a bargain on yours. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Comes down to the old adage: "Let's go out and spend, so we can save money." |
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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
| alongway wrote: |
| Quote: |
Using points is not a true discount since you first have to spend a certain amount of money to then get a "discount." The more you spend the more you save--right. And that "discount" is already built into the prices. Just like those 300,000 won pillow cases. That's funny stuff.
Yes, at first glance it seems absurd that they could buy, for example, a refrigerator, pay to have it shipped, and then pay the customs and that they would save enough money to make that all worthwhile. But they did.
Making a profit is not equivalent to ripping someone off. Of course retailers make a profit. That's how they stay in business. |
The points aren't built into prices.
You get points for buying things in general with your card, then certain businesses give up to 50% off using those points as cash, some of them can even building up hundreds or thousands of dollars in points.
I'd like to see a breakdown of the shipping cost and customs on a washing machine or refrigerator like that.
My point wasn't that they make a profit, my point was that when they offer those black friday savings of 60-90%, they are still making a profit. The rip-off is the regular prices they're charging you the rest of the year. |
I know how points work. You obviously don't know how businesses work. They're not giving you anything.
You earn points by spending, spending much more than you'll "save" by using the points. Also, due to the psychology of points, often spending more than you normally would. You use the points in their store, buying more of their goods at inflated prices so that they lose nothing by giving you a "discount."
As for a breakdown on prices go to Best Buy or Walmart and check it out.
As for rip-offs, you're still wrong. Competition keeps prices down. The funny thing about Black Friday sales is often the same goods are on sale at lower prices during the regular year.
Besides, who buys things at regular price when there are so many sales? Paying retail is for suckers.
BTW, a quick Internet search shows you can get a regular-priced allergen free goose down blanket for $180. Good thing you got such a bargain on yours. |
what are you talking about? What blanket? Do you even know where you are?
Regarding discounts,
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304281004579217863262940166
| Quote: |
| The red cardigan sweater with the ruffled neck on sale for more than 40% off at $39.99 was never meant to sell at its $68 starting price. It was designed with the discount built in. |
| Quote: |
| Here's how it works, according to one industry consultant describing an actual sweater sold at a major retailer. A supplier sells the sweater to a retailer for roughly $14.50. The suggested retail price is $50, which gives the retailer a roughly 70% markup. A few sweaters sell at that price, but more sell at the first markdown of $44.99, and the bulk sell at the final discount price of $21.99. That produces an average unit retail price of $28 and gives the store about a 45% gross margin on the product. |
Yes, american prices are a rip-off.
and in regards to TVs
| Quote: |
| The TV is selling at a 45% discount to its list price of $1,799.99. But, according to Decide.com, a price-tracking firm owned by eBay Inc., the TV hasn't sold for anywhere near the list price in months. The most it has sold for in the past eight months is $1,297.85, according to Decide.com. As recently as October, it was priced at $997.99, about the same as its current sale price. |
Then this gem:
| Quote: |
| Another tactic involves raising selling prices ahead of the holidays before the discounts kick in. In an analysis for The Wall Street Journal, price-tracking firm Market Track LLC looked at the online price fluctuations of 1,743 products in November 2012. Prices climbed an average of 8% in the weeks leading up to Thanksgiving for 366, or about a fifth, of the products; the items were then discounted on Black Friday. Toys and tools had the biggest pre-Black Friday price increases—about 23%. |
American retail is all about dirty tricks.
And the point you're missing on some of these point schemes is that the credit card points often build up with any purchase, including things like cars, phone bill payments, etc. Then you can turn around and use those points with a completely unrelated company. Happy points is a closed system. With general credit card points you could use all the points at a company without ever actually building up the points at that company. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
Imagine less Samsung types making their 5 million won salaries a month just for pretending to look busy and suck up to their ajossi boss. Imagine less folks walking around smuggly spending company funds on hookers. Imagine if prices were cheaper and gold diggers had to get a job themselves because there were less rich fellows to chase around.
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Now that's just jealousy based on inaccurate fantasy. Do you really think that's what business is all about here? If it truly were, everything would have utterly collpased into something resembling a 3rd world banana republic and you certainly wouldn't have a job here at the salary you currently enjoy. |
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mayorhaggar
Joined: 01 Jan 2013
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
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| And it just kills me that Samsung makes great dryers and dishwashers, but nobody in South Korea knows what either of those two things are. |
Dude, they know what those things are. They choose not to spend the money and space on them. |
You and the other apologist brotherhood members are going to flip out over this and say a lot of completely irrelevant things, but frankly South Korea is not quite a first world country yet. They've made a ton of progress in 50 years but still have a way to go. They can't get bathrooms, hot water, or public garbage cans/collection right, which are pretty basic hallmarks of modern civilization to me. These things are not rocket science.
It's just really telling that South Korea produces one set of products for South Korea and another for the Western world. It's not like all South Koreans are still too poor to afford dryers or dishwashers. Most Koreans? Yeah probably, their overspending on their overpriced domestic smartphones and cars probably puts things like that out of reach. But there's plenty of people who could at least afford a dryer, or a proper laundry machine, or a dishwasher--and they could afford the power bill for them.
Even if you can't afford a dryer you should be able to pay US prices for a Korean-made US-style laundry machine that does a load in 30 minutes (and actually gets the clothes clean and doesn't rip them apart) instead of being forced to buy a Korean-market washer that takes 60 minutes.
TL;DR: Korean goods sold in Korea are flimsy overpriced garbage way too much of the time. Koreans are basically paying through the nose to subsidize low prices for their own goods sold in the Western world. Also, they're paying for chaebol corruption. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| alongway wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
| alongway wrote: |
| Quote: |
Using points is not a true discount since you first have to spend a certain amount of money to then get a "discount." The more you spend the more you save--right. And that "discount" is already built into the prices. Just like those 300,000 won pillow cases. That's funny stuff.
Yes, at first glance it seems absurd that they could buy, for example, a refrigerator, pay to have it shipped, and then pay the customs and that they would save enough money to make that all worthwhile. But they did.
Making a profit is not equivalent to ripping someone off. Of course retailers make a profit. That's how they stay in business. |
The points aren't built into prices.
You get points for buying things in general with your card, then certain businesses give up to 50% off using those points as cash, some of them can even building up hundreds or thousands of dollars in points.
I'd like to see a breakdown of the shipping cost and customs on a washing machine or refrigerator like that.
My point wasn't that they make a profit, my point was that when they offer those black friday savings of 60-90%, they are still making a profit. The rip-off is the regular prices they're charging you the rest of the year. |
I know how points work. You obviously don't know how businesses work. They're not giving you anything.
You earn points by spending, spending much more than you'll "save" by using the points. Also, due to the psychology of points, often spending more than you normally would. You use the points in their store, buying more of their goods at inflated prices so that they lose nothing by giving you a "discount."
As for a breakdown on prices go to Best Buy or Walmart and check it out.
As for rip-offs, you're still wrong. Competition keeps prices down. The funny thing about Black Friday sales is often the same goods are on sale at lower prices during the regular year.
Besides, who buys things at regular price when there are so many sales? Paying retail is for suckers.
BTW, a quick Internet search shows you can get a regular-priced allergen free goose down blanket for $180. Good thing you got such a bargain on yours. |
what are you talking about? What blanket? Do you even know where you are?
Regarding discounts,
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304281004579217863262940166
| Quote: |
| The red cardigan sweater with the ruffled neck on sale for more than 40% off at $39.99 was never meant to sell at its $68 starting price. It was designed with the discount built in. |
| Quote: |
| Here's how it works, according to one industry consultant describing an actual sweater sold at a major retailer. A supplier sells the sweater to a retailer for roughly $14.50. The suggested retail price is $50, which gives the retailer a roughly 70% markup. A few sweaters sell at that price, but more sell at the first markdown of $44.99, and the bulk sell at the final discount price of $21.99. That produces an average unit retail price of $28 and gives the store about a 45% gross margin on the product. |
Yes, american prices are a rip-off.
and in regards to TVs
| Quote: |
| The TV is selling at a 45% discount to its list price of $1,799.99. But, according to Decide.com, a price-tracking firm owned by eBay Inc., the TV hasn't sold for anywhere near the list price in months. The most it has sold for in the past eight months is $1,297.85, according to Decide.com. As recently as October, it was priced at $997.99, about the same as its current sale price. |
Then this gem:
| Quote: |
| Another tactic involves raising selling prices ahead of the holidays before the discounts kick in. In an analysis for The Wall Street Journal, price-tracking firm Market Track LLC looked at the online price fluctuations of 1,743 products in November 2012. Prices climbed an average of 8% in the weeks leading up to Thanksgiving for 366, or about a fifth, of the products; the items were then discounted on Black Friday. Toys and tools had the biggest pre-Black Friday price increases—about 23%. |
American retail is all about dirty tricks.
And the point you're missing on some of these point schemes is that the credit card points often build up with any purchase, including things like cars, phone bill payments, etc. Then you can turn around and use those points with a completely unrelated company. Happy points is a closed system. With general credit card points you could use all the points at a company without ever actually building up the points at that company. |
I was actually referring to that WSJ article in my post above.
My first question is how much would that sweater you refer to have sold for in Korea? 300,000 won, 400,00 won, more? How much is that TV selling for? Your argument is half-baked without a true comparison, such as I gave you for the blanket in your original post.
Just think, though. Even if American retail were the rip-off you claim it is, how would you describe Korean pricing which is so much higher? Extortion, bald-faced robbery?
As for the blanket, it was the first one that comes up from a company specializing in anti-allergic goods.
Again, to get points you have to spend. In the cases you mention, which I doubt are common, they had to spend and spend and spend. Were they able to pay off their credit card every month or did they carry a balance and pay the fees/interest on that? One way or another, you're paying for those points.
You's posted nothing to show that Korean prices are competitive with those in the U.S. You've only introduced the red herring of whether Black Friday deals are as good as some believe they are. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
Imagine less Samsung types making their 5 million won salaries a month just for pretending to look busy and suck up to their ajossi boss. Imagine less folks walking around smuggly spending company funds on hookers. Imagine if prices were cheaper and gold diggers had to get a job themselves because there were less rich fellows to chase around.
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Now that's just jealousy based on inaccurate fantasy. Do you really think that's what business is all about here? If it truly were, everything would have utterly collpased into something resembling a 3rd world banana republic and you certainly wouldn't have a job here at the salary you currently enjoy. |
It may not be completely accurate, but the points about sitting at a desk all day doing next to nothing and using company credit cards has some basis in reality. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| You and the other apologist brotherhood members are going to flip out over this and say a lot of completely irrelevant things, but frankly South Korea is not quite a first world country yet. They've made a ton of progress in 50 years but still have a way to go. They can't get bathrooms, hot water, or public garbage cans/collection right, which are pretty basic hallmarks of modern civilization to me. These things are not rocket science. |
| Quote: |
| or public garbage cans/collection right |
So on the one hand you want people to have electric dryers in their apartments, and on the other hand you are worrying about pollution and carbon footprints. Which is it? Hang dry and go green or use a machine and burn up energy?
This is why "apologists" are there- they point out irrational criticism. Criticism based not on what the right thing to do is, but the fact that Koreans are doing it, therefore it is wrong.
| Quote: |
| They can't get bathrooms, hot water, or public garbage cans/collection right, which are pretty basic hallmarks of modern civilization to me. These things are not rocket science. |
I think you're overexaggerating here and confusing technical capability vs. government spending.
| Quote: |
| Yeah probably, their overspending on their overpriced domestic smartphones and cars probably puts things like that out of reach. But there's plenty of people who could at least afford a dryer, or a proper laundry machine. |
Dude, just because you have a 3rd rate washer dumped on you by your school doesn't mean "Koreans" all have dilapidated washers and dryers. Nor does it mean every home back home is running on the latest appliances out there.
And also, back home I had a dishwashing machine and I hardly ever used it. Hand washing washes better, faster, and more sanitary, and carries less risk of breaking things.
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instead of being forced to buy a Korean-market washer that takes 60 minutes.
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Sure you just can't read the settings and have things stuck on gentle and heh heh "massive load".
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| Korean goods sold in Korea are flimsy overpriced garbage way too much of the time. |
It's the same crap by and large. This reminds me of people who insist Korean Coke tastes different but can't tell the difference in a blind taste test. |
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