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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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 Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:49 pm Post subject: A fitting analogy for ESL in Korea |
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Preface:
The most recent (and in fact only) posting of its kind on a website I checked today really pissed me off.
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Hello, I'm an American living in Hongdae. I'm looking for more 1-to-1 English clients for English conversation, business English, etc. I live in Hongdae but can travel to all areas of Seoul. Please reply to this post to contact me. Price is negotiable!
Education: B.A. Media Studies & Radio Journalism, USA
Age: 27, Male
Availability: After 1 pm Monday-Friday, All Weekend Hours
Rate: ₩20,000/hour (we can discuss a lower price for multiple lessons, etc.) |
Video: A fitting analogy for ESL in Korea
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TEZ7zbumak
Look at the kind of crap being pitched to F-visa holders these days:
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Part-Time / F-2 Only / Anyang / Kindy / M-F 10AM-3:30PM F-2 Part-time Only
* Location: Gyeonggi / Anyang
* Starting Date: ASAP
* Age Group: Kindergarten
* Working Hours: Monday to Friday (10:00AM~3:30PM)
* Compensation: 1.0 Million KRW
* The Closest Subway Station: TBD
Please send us your resume and a recent photo to [email protected] |
From Dave's, a mere two years ago:
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Looking for Only F2/5 Visa holder
- Monthly Pay- 3,500,000
- Starting Date: Negotiable (September/October) * Gangnam
- Working Hours: Monday-Friday 8:30am- 2:00pm (no-overtime)(non-negotiable)
- Teaching Target: Pre-K to K children
- Location: Gangnam |
These two jobs are as similar as can be: The amount of working hours per hour are exactly the same, yet there is a big difference in pay. Why? One is an offer from late 2011 and the other (which is far worse) is an offer from 2013. It's a damn shame. But here's the thing: there are a limited number of F-visa holders in Korea. If every F-visa holder said, "no" to low ball offers of recruiters testing the waters, wages would not fall. All it takes is for one person to say yes, and the job is gone off the board, with the labor done for a low rate. That person just set the bar for everyone else. So please guys, if your wife is nagging you to make more money, don't just accept anything. Hold out for more. If a company or recruiter offers you an offer lower than what was the going rate before, refuse and give the reason why. Encourage others to do the same too. If you see an ad from a Westerner offering low rates, PM that person explaining why he should charge more. If you see a voice recording ad offering a low amount, make a post directly above it explaining why this is a crap wage (for a voice recording which will make a company rich). Do your part to fight falling wages. If people accept low payment, surely it will become the norm. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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| In the past the first guy might have got more because foreigners were more of a rarity but he doesn't list any qualifications or expertise. I wouldn't pay more than 20,000 for someone like that. I can't think of anyone who'd apply for the second ad unless they're a non native speaker. |
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Died By Bear
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| It's only going to get worse. Get out now. |
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Lucas
Joined: 11 Sep 2012
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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I work for rice!
5KG per hour. 3Kg for brown. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:11 am Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| In the past the first guy might have got more because foreigners were more of a rarity but he doesn't list any qualifications or expertise. I wouldn't pay more than 20,000 for someone like that. |
You wouldn't? Not if you were a Korean learning English? I pay 20k an hour to learn Korean (a difficult obscure language spoken by less than 1% of the world's population) from a person who has never taught Korean before. Zero "qualifications or expertise". In fact, none of that is needed for one on one. For a big classroom with mixed abilities it is, but personal tutoring is different. Westerners offering/agreeing to work for cheap drive down the going rate and you know it. But you (and The Urban Myth, etc.) are too straight laced to participate in the illegal privates market, meaning it doesn't affect you (not yet anyway), so why should you care? |
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Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:33 am Post subject: |
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| In 2003 FOB I was paid 40K per hour for private lessons. You didn't need any qualifications to make 40K per hour. I think it is probably the same today if you stick to your guns. I make 40/50/60 depending on the size of class now - but they don't inquire much about my experience, I think a FOB could get the same. Those that work for less are probably a bit stupid. I understand employers offering low ball offers, but they must get pretty stupid teachers. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:54 am Post subject: |
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| Consumer prices have increased by 31 percent since when she arrived in 2003, according to OECD figures. |
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| “Living back then was so simple. Everything was cheap and affordable,” said Heaney. “I have noticed that the prices of things have risen, but the pay scale has stayed the same.” |
http://groovekorea.com/article/koreas-efl-education-failing
I guess you could say the 40k in 2003 is 55k in today's money. WYD, you are making decent money, about the same as what you made when you first arrived with no quals. Much of that is due to you having the F-visa, but nevertheless, well done. I heard so much about rates dropping, even for F-visa holders, but what you are saying indicates that may not be so true. Let's cross our fingers and hope things don't take a turn for the worse too badly in the future. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:36 am Post subject: |
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| You wouldn't? Not if you were a Korean learning English? I pay 20k an hour to learn Korean (a difficult obscure language spoken by less than 1% of the world's population) from a person who has never taught Korean before. Zero "qualifications or expertise". In fact, none of that is needed for one on one |
From your other thread
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| Bring your own materials and tell the teacher what to do. That's what I do |
That's why your teacher's only worth 20k. You're putting in half the effort yourself without getting paid for it. If I wanted one to one lessons, I wouldn't scrimp n it. I'd choose someone who could plan their own decent and interesting lessons, prepare
their own materials and I could just turn up, engage and learn. But each to his own. |
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misher
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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edwardcatflap wrote:
In the past the first guy might have got more because foreigners were more of a rarity but he doesn't list any qualifications or expertise. I wouldn't pay more than 20,000 for someone like that.
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"Qualifications" for teaching English "conversation." What are these qualifications? You're not exactly editing a thesis or technical journal or developing a curriculum/ managing a program.
1 to 1 conversation "lessons" are entirely dictated by the number of native speakers available. Less of them = more desperate Koreans who think yaking to a native speaker 1 hour a week will make them fluent.
I wouldn't pay more than $20 an hour for that either even if my teacher had 5 MAs in education English Tesol IELTS BS or whatever else "qualification" has materialized out of the education inflation in this industry. I had 1 to 1 Native speaker leasons for Korean. I paid 17,000 krw an hour. My korean teacher asked for 40,000 krw an hour. No way when there are millions of Koreans around me who would even do it for free. I just want conversation and some corrections. "Qualification" whatever they may be for doing this job are not needed IMO. |
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