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le-paul
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre
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 Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:35 am Post subject: |
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| young_clinton wrote: |
| le-paul wrote: |
Im not sure how you would define 'much more evil'? I would have thought corruption, fueling poverty, financing global war, immorality on a super massive scale, profiting from human rights abuses etc. is about comparable to anything 'wrong'.
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Have you ever thought about seeking amnesty from the evil West with its evil leader America in North Korea? |
I already did.
Its called my bedroom |
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young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:41 am Post subject: |
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| But you're not physically in North Korea. |
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Ginormousaurus
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Location: 700 Ft. Pulpit
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| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:24 am Post subject: |
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| Marquis wrote: |
Yes, It'll be a largely guided tour but it leaves me to make my own informed and education opinion of things. Not what CNN has told you to think or what the yank's, who think everyone who isn't a capitalist is evil, would like you to believe. |
I'm not against people going to North Korea. I'd like to go myself, BUT you are not making an "informed and educated opinion of things" when you are taken on propaganda tours of Pyongyang. You are not seeing the real North Korea in which the majority of the country suffers. True, you're getting a different picture than the one CNN tries to scare/entertain you with, but I'd argue that what you get from the tour will be a bigger fiction if what you are shown is being passed off as authentically North Korean. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:52 am Post subject: |
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| Marquis wrote: |
| le-paul wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| le-paul wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| Marquis wrote: |
The blood money argument isn't going to work on me. You pay taxes, especially if you're a yankee, you're funding a war somewhere, that's blood money. No different. You buy from X cooperation or Z business and you fund some sort of agenda or policy that they're pushing and I'm going to say its not the fuzzy lets make the world a better place kinda policy. |
I have to pay taxes, you don't have to go to North Korea. A small percent of my taxes goes to war and questionable politics, all foreign currency that goes into North Korea goes into perpetuating one of the worst regimes ever to exist. By going there and being paraded around and being seen admiring the regime's monuments to itself you give credence to the claim that even foreigners admire the Dear Leader. Your equivalence is false. Nothing fuzzy or indirect about that. |
You dont have to keep any money stored in a bank account either. Do you keep all of your cash at home? |
Small credit union, and despite all the bad things banks do, the Kim family regime is objectively much more evil. It's not about what I do or don't do with my money anyways. |
Im not sure how you would define 'much more evil'? I would have thought corruption, fueling poverty, financing global war, immorality on a super massive scale, profiting from human rights abuses etc. is about comparable to anything 'wrong'.
I don't know where you're from? Im from the UK and have a copy of this on my computer about our banks. It makes an enlightening read;
http://www.waronwant.org/attachments/Banking%20on%20Bloodshed.pdf
I don't even know where to start with the american banking system. Basically, the biggest scam ever that effects everyone and cant possibly end well for us all.
Anyway, you seem like a chap who has principles. So, I perhaps wouldn't be so quick to discount what you are in fact supporting by leaving money in your account. Its arguably as bad as supporting the Kim regime. |
Leon, you don't have to pay taxes, not if you're clever. And I think our other friend, le paul, catches my drift a bit. I'm not going to argue that N.K. doesn't have its issues, and I know its not some utopia, or shining light of freedom. Yet, they also don't start wars, invade countries, and steal resources(yet) at least, not on the level anywhere near the U.S.
A visit to N.K. is one of those rare things, how many people are ever going to do? A couple of hundred, tops a year. It's an opportunity that is both rare and offers a learning experience, I'll see North Korea, with my own eyes, for myself. Yes, It'll be a largely guided tour but it leaves me to make my own informed and education opinion of things. Not what CNN has told you to think or what the yank's, who think everyone who isn't a capitalist is evil, would like you to believe.
I'm attracted to learning experiences, rare opportunities, and to places that most people dare not go. This is all three, how can I resist? |
I guess 1950 doesn't count? I'm not an English teacher any more, for the types of jobs I will be doing I will go through background checks more sophisticated than just a police check, anyways it'd be just as easy to argue that since I use public services not paying taxes is not moral, but that's not here nor there. I'm not going to try to convince you that North Korea is evil, you're not a child, you should be able to figure these things out yourself. America has many issues, North Korea is objectively much worse. It seems like you don't know much about North Korea. Do some serious research before you go, not just watching Vice videos. Here's some places to start, and before you call them propaganda look at the embedded links, think critically, etc.
http://freekorea.us/camps/
http://freekorea.us/2013/12/04/in-north-korea-hunger-isnt-a-function-of-production-but-of-state-policy/ |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:54 am Post subject: |
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| le-paul wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| le-paul wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| Marquis wrote: |
The blood money argument isn't going to work on me. You pay taxes, especially if you're a yankee, you're funding a war somewhere, that's blood money. No different. You buy from X cooperation or Z business and you fund some sort of agenda or policy that they're pushing and I'm going to say its not the fuzzy lets make the world a better place kinda policy. |
I have to pay taxes, you don't have to go to North Korea. A small percent of my taxes goes to war and questionable politics, all foreign currency that goes into North Korea goes into perpetuating one of the worst regimes ever to exist. By going there and being paraded around and being seen admiring the regime's monuments to itself you give credence to the claim that even foreigners admire the Dear Leader. Your equivalence is false. Nothing fuzzy or indirect about that. |
You dont have to keep any money stored in a bank account either. Do you keep all of your cash at home? |
Small credit union, and despite all the bad things banks do, the Kim family regime is objectively much more evil. It's not about what I do or don't do with my money anyways. |
Im not sure how you would define 'much more evil'? I would have thought corruption, fueling poverty, financing global war, immorality on a super massive scale, profiting from human rights abuses etc. is about comparable to anything 'wrong'.
I don't know where you're from? Im from the UK and have a copy of this on my computer about our banks. It makes an enlightening read;
http://www.waronwant.org/attachments/Banking%20on%20Bloodshed.pdf
I don't even know where to start with the american banking system. Basically, the biggest scam ever that effects everyone and cant possibly end well for us all.
Anyway, you seem like a chap who has principles. So, I perhaps wouldn't be so quick to discount what you are in fact supporting by leaving money in your account. Its arguably as bad as supporting the Kim regime. |
Did the fact that I said I had my money in a small credit union escape you? No, even if I had money in the bank it is not as bad as supporting the Kim regime. The banks do not directly run concentration camps, they do not use hunger to control the population, they don't have a policy where they punish three generations for political crime, etc. etc. |
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Marquis
Joined: 25 Jul 2013
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| Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| Marquis wrote: |
| le-paul wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| le-paul wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| Marquis wrote: |
The blood money argument isn't going to work on me. You pay taxes, especially if you're a yankee, you're funding a war somewhere, that's blood money. No different. You buy from X cooperation or Z business and you fund some sort of agenda or policy that they're pushing and I'm going to say its not the fuzzy lets make the world a better place kinda policy. |
I have to pay taxes, you don't have to go to North Korea. A small percent of my taxes goes to war and questionable politics, all foreign currency that goes into North Korea goes into perpetuating one of the worst regimes ever to exist. By going there and being paraded around and being seen admiring the regime's monuments to itself you give credence to the claim that even foreigners admire the Dear Leader. Your equivalence is false. Nothing fuzzy or indirect about that. |
You dont have to keep any money stored in a bank account either. Do you keep all of your cash at home? |
Small credit union, and despite all the bad things banks do, the Kim family regime is objectively much more evil. It's not about what I do or don't do with my money anyways. |
Im not sure how you would define 'much more evil'? I would have thought corruption, fueling poverty, financing global war, immorality on a super massive scale, profiting from human rights abuses etc. is about comparable to anything 'wrong'.
I don't know where you're from? Im from the UK and have a copy of this on my computer about our banks. It makes an enlightening read;
http://www.waronwant.org/attachments/Banking%20on%20Bloodshed.pdf
I don't even know where to start with the american banking system. Basically, the biggest scam ever that effects everyone and cant possibly end well for us all.
Anyway, you seem like a chap who has principles. So, I perhaps wouldn't be so quick to discount what you are in fact supporting by leaving money in your account. Its arguably as bad as supporting the Kim regime. |
Leon, you don't have to pay taxes, not if you're clever. And I think our other friend, le paul, catches my drift a bit. I'm not going to argue that N.K. doesn't have its issues, and I know its not some utopia, or shining light of freedom. Yet, they also don't start wars, invade countries, and steal resources(yet) at least, not on the level anywhere near the U.S.
A visit to N.K. is one of those rare things, how many people are ever going to do? A couple of hundred, tops a year. It's an opportunity that is both rare and offers a learning experience, I'll see North Korea, with my own eyes, for myself. Yes, It'll be a largely guided tour but it leaves me to make my own informed and education opinion of things. Not what CNN has told you to think or what the yank's, who think everyone who isn't a capitalist is evil, would like you to believe.
I'm attracted to learning experiences, rare opportunities, and to places that most people dare not go. This is all three, how can I resist? |
I guess 1950 doesn't count? I'm not an English teacher any more, for the types of jobs I will be doing I will go through background checks more sophisticated than just a police check, anyways it'd be just as easy to argue that since I use public services not paying taxes is not moral, but that's not here nor there. I'm not going to try to convince you that North Korea is evil, you're not a child, you should be able to figure these things out yourself. America has many issues, North Korea is objectively much worse. It seems like you don't know much about North Korea. Do some serious research before you go, not just watching Vice videos. Here's some places to start, and before you call them propaganda look at the embedded links, think critically, etc.
http://freekorea.us/camps/
http://freekorea.us/2013/12/04/in-north-korea-hunger-isnt-a-function-of-production-but-of-state-policy/ |
1950's? How many wars have the U.S. started since then? As for your websites, I've actually been to them, I've read up on my North through a variety of sources. Still want to go.
Legitimately curious, should I not visit Cuba either?
As for the moral thing, well, I have my morals, but I'm guessing we have a completely different view on morality. =D |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Marquis wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| Marquis wrote: |
| le-paul wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| le-paul wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| Marquis wrote: |
The blood money argument isn't going to work on me. You pay taxes, especially if you're a yankee, you're funding a war somewhere, that's blood money. No different. You buy from X cooperation or Z business and you fund some sort of agenda or policy that they're pushing and I'm going to say its not the fuzzy lets make the world a better place kinda policy. |
I have to pay taxes, you don't have to go to North Korea. A small percent of my taxes goes to war and questionable politics, all foreign currency that goes into North Korea goes into perpetuating one of the worst regimes ever to exist. By going there and being paraded around and being seen admiring the regime's monuments to itself you give credence to the claim that even foreigners admire the Dear Leader. Your equivalence is false. Nothing fuzzy or indirect about that. |
You dont have to keep any money stored in a bank account either. Do you keep all of your cash at home? |
Small credit union, and despite all the bad things banks do, the Kim family regime is objectively much more evil. It's not about what I do or don't do with my money anyways. |
Im not sure how you would define 'much more evil'? I would have thought corruption, fueling poverty, financing global war, immorality on a super massive scale, profiting from human rights abuses etc. is about comparable to anything 'wrong'.
I don't know where you're from? Im from the UK and have a copy of this on my computer about our banks. It makes an enlightening read;
http://www.waronwant.org/attachments/Banking%20on%20Bloodshed.pdf
I don't even know where to start with the american banking system. Basically, the biggest scam ever that effects everyone and cant possibly end well for us all.
Anyway, you seem like a chap who has principles. So, I perhaps wouldn't be so quick to discount what you are in fact supporting by leaving money in your account. Its arguably as bad as supporting the Kim regime. |
Leon, you don't have to pay taxes, not if you're clever. And I think our other friend, le paul, catches my drift a bit. I'm not going to argue that N.K. doesn't have its issues, and I know its not some utopia, or shining light of freedom. Yet, they also don't start wars, invade countries, and steal resources(yet) at least, not on the level anywhere near the U.S.
A visit to N.K. is one of those rare things, how many people are ever going to do? A couple of hundred, tops a year. It's an opportunity that is both rare and offers a learning experience, I'll see North Korea, with my own eyes, for myself. Yes, It'll be a largely guided tour but it leaves me to make my own informed and education opinion of things. Not what CNN has told you to think or what the yank's, who think everyone who isn't a capitalist is evil, would like you to believe.
I'm attracted to learning experiences, rare opportunities, and to places that most people dare not go. This is all three, how can I resist? |
I guess 1950 doesn't count? I'm not an English teacher any more, for the types of jobs I will be doing I will go through background checks more sophisticated than just a police check, anyways it'd be just as easy to argue that since I use public services not paying taxes is not moral, but that's not here nor there. I'm not going to try to convince you that North Korea is evil, you're not a child, you should be able to figure these things out yourself. America has many issues, North Korea is objectively much worse. It seems like you don't know much about North Korea. Do some serious research before you go, not just watching Vice videos. Here's some places to start, and before you call them propaganda look at the embedded links, think critically, etc.
http://freekorea.us/camps/
http://freekorea.us/2013/12/04/in-north-korea-hunger-isnt-a-function-of-production-but-of-state-policy/ |
1950's? How many wars have the U.S. started since then? As for your websites, I've actually been to them, I've read up on my North through a variety of sources. Still want to go.
Legitimately curious, should I not visit Cuba either?
As for the moral thing, well, I have my morals, but I'm guessing we have a completely different view on morality. =D |
Are you American... no just kidding. Sure go visit Cuba, they aren't dependent on foreign currency as North Korea, and aren't nearly as objectively evil. I wouldn't go to NK right now, by the way, now things are going to get weird after the Uncle got executed, which is a huge deal. Your morals are yours, you look after them, just don't kid yourself about what's going on while you're there, and tell yourself its an adventure when you bow down to that giant statue of Kim Il Sung. |
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PatrickBateman
Joined: 08 Jun 2009
Location: American Gardens Building, West 81st Street
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:46 am Post subject: |
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| VICE put out one not too long ago about South Korea. It was a real piece of sh!t with an equally worthless hostess. |
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le-paul
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 2:35 am Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
Are you American... no just kidding. Sure go visit Cuba, they aren't dependent on foreign currency as North Korea, and aren't nearly as objectively evil. I wouldn't go to NK right now, by the way, now things are going to get weird after the Uncle got executed, which is a huge deal. Your morals are yours, you look after them, just don't kid yourself about what's going on while you're there, and tell yourself its an adventure when you bow down to that giant statue of Kim Il Sung. |
Just how much of our money do think we (I'm also interested in going despite being against the regime etc.) would be investing in North Korea by visiting it?
http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/north-korea-fun-fair-mangyongdae-hoban-death
If youve been reading the same literature etc. as me, you'd know there is a black market that is possibly impossible for foreigners to buy from, so you wouldnt be able to buy squat.
Im not sure you'd be forced to stay in that monstrosity of a hotel so the cost of accommodation wouldnt be too high either.
Anyway, Im not sure the amount we spend would make much of a difference to the economy considering the cost of a plane vs my kimchi fried rice.
You probably spend more money supporting sweat-shops, unethical multinationals, and un-fairly traded produce every week.
Maybe you should read some of the blogs from this guy who visits NK. regularly on hiking trips. From what hes told me, he isnt followed about like a spy when hes there.
https://www.facebook.com/koreahike or http://www.hikekorea.com/
(btw -I did read the comment about the bank, Id just assumed you must have transferred it there from a korean account - sorry about the misunderstanding). |
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schwa
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Yap
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:03 am Post subject: |
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I've got an explorational sense of mind & I've checked off quite a few see-before-you-die destinations in my life. This thread inspires a bucket list addendum, to gain my own impression.
I'm going to look into whats involved & aim for this summer. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:56 am Post subject: |
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| le-paul wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
Are you American... no just kidding. Sure go visit Cuba, they aren't dependent on foreign currency as North Korea, and aren't nearly as objectively evil. I wouldn't go to NK right now, by the way, now things are going to get weird after the Uncle got executed, which is a huge deal. Your morals are yours, you look after them, just don't kid yourself about what's going on while you're there, and tell yourself its an adventure when you bow down to that giant statue of Kim Il Sung. |
Just how much of our money do think we (I'm also interested in going despite being against the regime etc.) would be investing in North Korea by visiting it?
http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/north-korea-fun-fair-mangyongdae-hoban-death
If youve been reading the same literature etc. as me, you'd know there is a black market that is possibly impossible for foreigners to buy from, so you wouldnt be able to buy squat.
Im not sure you'd be forced to stay in that monstrosity of a hotel so the cost of accommodation wouldnt be too high either.
Anyway, Im not sure the amount we spend would make much of a difference to the economy considering the cost of a plane vs my kimchi fried rice.
You probably spend more money supporting sweat-shops, unethical multinationals, and un-fairly traded produce every week.
Maybe you should read some of the blogs from this guy who visits NK. regularly on hiking trips. From what hes told me, he isnt followed about like a spy when hes there.
https://www.facebook.com/koreahike or http://www.hikekorea.com/
(btw -I did read the comment about the bank, Id just assumed you must have transferred it there from a korean account - sorry about the misunderstanding). |
'
The tour fee itself is very high, not that you'd be spending that much money inside the country itself. |
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alljokingaside
Joined: 17 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Marquis wrote: |
1950's? How many wars have the U.S. started since then? As for your websites, I've actually been to them, I've read up on my North through a variety of sources. Still want to go.
Legitimately curious, should I not visit Cuba either?
As for the moral thing, well, I have my morals, but I'm guessing we have a completely different view on morality. =D |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70L_3RrP6-8 (a bit gimmicky, but still valid) |
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Smithington
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| I couldn't get into the film. It seemed really boring and the old folks didn't have the requisite personality. A far better film is Vice's earlier "Guide to North Korea". That one was great and the dude narrating it was hilarious. I would strongly recommend that one over this motorcycle video. |
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