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Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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 Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 6:44 am Post subject: |
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I'm from Boston. Those areas highlighted (Dorchester, Roxbury, etc) have a high percentage of black residents.
Just saying. |
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Titus
Joined: 19 May 2012
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| sirius black wrote: |
What is amazing is we have people advocating that the races be separated in America because we just can't along and at the same time saying areas with black populations are better off run by whites |
There is no contradiction in those ideas. |
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sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| caniff wrote: |
I'm from Boston. Those areas highlighted (Dorchester, Roxbury, etc) have a high percentage of black residents.
Just saying. |
...and you should also know then that southie, although parts are gentrified to some extent, still Irish and have had a crime rate higher than the national average going back decades since we started recording national stats...hmm...wonder why that was left out....just saying.
however, crime is a function of poverty. Poor people commit crime. Roxbury and southie have poor and working poor people. Crime is NOT a function of race. Never has been. If it were middle and upper class blacks would have very similar crime rates to poor blacks and they don't.
100-150 years ago in America, you had an extremely high crime rate in the lower east side of Manhattan, a jewish neighborhood, hells kitchen in the mid 1800s committed about 70% of the crime in NYC, an irish neighborhood. What did both have in common with today's inner city? poverty. Jews rarely if ever had organized crime and gangs in Europe but did so in America? why? They were marginalized and poor. Irish, the same. Italians formed gangs as well, almost all the immigrant groups did.
South African crime is committed by the poor who are overwhelmingly Black and poor by design from the previous apartheid governments. |
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sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Titus wrote: |
| sirius black wrote: |
What is amazing is we have people advocating that the races be separated in America because we just can't along and at the same time saying areas with black populations are better off run by whites |
There is no contradiction in those ideas. |
I guess if I repeated 1+1=3 long enough, I'd believe it too as well as other folks. |
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sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Popocatepetl wrote: |
| sirius black wrote: |
| Isn't self determination a cornerstone of western ideology? |
Self determination depends on freedom and having choices.
In many post colonial regimes the ordinary people have suffered a reduction in their options for self-determination due to poverty and oppressive rule. |
First, Africa, like the middle east and the native americans are tribal. The various European colonists grouped multiple tribes in one are and said it was one and these tribes often did not get along and sometimes they did but the tactic was divide and conquer.
Almost invariable one tribe was treated better than the other. Bureaucratic jobs were often filled mainly by one tribe. Resentment was built up by the tribes left out. The colonists left and what you have was still a country where the tribes are at odds. That doesn't change and often ends up in near genocide such as Rwanda.
You ask a Nigerian where he's from and he'll tell us Nigeria. An African asks him and he'll say he's Ibo or Yoruba or Hausa.
We are all like that. When we travel we are American but in America you're Irish, Italian, Black, etc.
Problem is in Africa there was a vacuum of power and poverty left by the colonials. These countries needed a selfless person to fill the vacuum and got people who succumbed to the power that came their way. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Crime is NOT a function of race. Never has been. If it were middle and upper class blacks would have very similar crime rates to poor blacks and they don't. |
If your thesis were true, whites and blacks of the same social class would have the same crime rates, but they don't, not even close. This has been demonstrated to you before in a previous thread, where I showed that black areas of Boston had far higher crimes rates than working-class Irish South Boston, but you're still sticking with the narrative that poverty, and poverty alone, explains crime. |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
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| Crime is NOT a function of race. Never has been. If it were middle and upper class blacks would have very similar crime rates to poor blacks and they don't. |
If your thesis were true, whites and blacks of the same social class would have the same crime rates, but they don't, not even close. This has been demonstrated to you before in a previous thread, where I showed that black areas of Boston had far higher crimes rates than working-class Irish South Boston, but you're still sticking with the narrative that poverty, and poverty alone, explains crime. |
false |
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sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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| I will never, ever ask a Black person again why they need an NAACP. Ever. Some of you are scary...really. |
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sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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...one last though (hopefully) some of you fence sitters need to use your own life experiences as your guide. Many of us, great majority if not all, grew up in communities where we had at least one black or latino family there. They did not commit any crimes and for all intent and purposes were similar to everyone else.
Korea has a few thousand black teachers. If what titus and bigverne are insinuating and lets keep it honest, that crime is inate for a race of people, then the black teachers, notably the male ones in Korea would be committing an inordinate amount of crime. They don't. I've rarely ever heard of any crime committed by black teachers in Korea. Could it be that a requirement is that everyone should be college educated and a clean criminal background check?
Why aren't they committing the crimes that bigverne alleges they do statistically? Colin Powel's son? Bill Cosby's kids? Jaden Smith, Will's son? are all going to be committing crimes statistically? Its laughable if it wasn't so scary people still think like this in 2013. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 5:55 am Post subject: |
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| Why aren't they committing the crimes that bigverne alleges they do statistically? Colin Powel's son? Bill Cosby's kids? Jaden Smith, Will's son? are all going to be committing crimes statistically? Its laughable if it wasn't so scary people still think like this in 2013. |
Does it really need to be pointed out to you, again, how retarded this argument is? |
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sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
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| Why aren't they committing the crimes that bigverne alleges they do statistically? Colin Powel's son? Bill Cosby's kids? Jaden Smith, Will's son? are all going to be committing crimes statistically? Its laughable if it wasn't so scary people still think like this in 2013. |
Does it really need to be pointed out to you, again, how retarded this argument is? |
If you look at ALL groups within the same social class there are differences. Asians as opposed to whites and blacks, etc. the differences are marginal. The FACT is that middle class blacks have a far, far lower rate than poor blacks.
You are muddying the waters. There may be any amount of reasons for a small difference between social classes. Black middle class surged in the '80s and '90s. Their parents came from lower classes. Look at middle class predominantly black neighborhoods. They are typically in urban areas next to the poor black areas. Very few all black suburban middle class areas. The crime rates in these areas (take Windsor Hills area of LA, there is an area of Harlem called Strivers Row where for decades the black doctors, lawyers, etc. of NYC lived up through the '70s) is higher than other middle class areas. Why? The crime ridden areas have a far easier access to rob and steal in these areas than they do in the white middle class areas in the suburbs.
Stats can often mislead and cover up things.
So your premise is complete bullshyt. Your personal experience, my personal experience says otherwise. We all know at least one middle class black family and often more and they do NOT commit crimes.
Again, I use Korea as evidence to trump ANY stat you have. There are at least a few thousand blacks that teach in Korea (I would assume at least in the hundreds in Japan and China as well) and as far as anyone knows negligible crime occurance. Foreigner crime is reported here and discussed on here when it happens. You never see it.
Explain THAT using your stats? You can't. They are similar to the rest of us. College educated and presumably middle class as a result.
Your premise is BS. Poor people commit the vast majority of violent crime, always have, always will, historically in ALL cultures. You are from England. You can't explain why all white council estates in Liverpool, Manchester and East London have been violent for decades and even centuries. Essex, east London have had high crime rates for a few hundred years.
Your premise is complete BS. |
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Titus
Joined: 19 May 2012
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| Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:18 am Post subject: |
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| Sirius, have one of them teach you the concept of a normal distribution. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:42 am Post subject: |
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Sirius, I am not going to wade into these murky waters and comment on the substance of you or Verne's arguments, but will simply comment on the method you are using. Titus is correct in bringing up the normal distribution. Basically they are not saying that every black person individually is more likely to commit crime, but that taken as a whole they are more likely to do so. So in both races you have people in the middle who are not particularly likely to commit any crime, or if they do it will be small stuff like smoking weed or speeding, and as you move to the tail ends of the distribution people on the left end are more likely to commit more serious or violent crime, whereas people on the right end are unlikely to commit any crime. Both distributions are the same, but their argument, or at least Titus', is that one entire distribution is shifted more to the left towards likelihood to commit crime than the other. If you want to have this argument, please do better. You are making it far too easy on them.
Yes, I just took my final exam for statistics recently, and yes I can't resist finding real life situations to apply what I learned. |
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sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:13 am Post subject: |
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...and I've posed the same questions over and over and titus or no one can give me an answer to my questions of why black teachers in korea are not committing crimes while there have been centuries of high crime in poor white areas of London and other poor white areas of Manchester, Liverpool, etc.
My question to you is why aren't you asking titus for the same answers to my question? or at least giving me an answer.
Still standing by every thing I wrote. I asked some questions. Answer those. You and everyone knows what he is and what he is insinuating. I'm more likely statistically (I assume) to be safer in a middle class asian neighborhood than my all white middle class neighborhood. Is it even worth mentioning? I'm safe either way. If for the sake or argument a black middle class neighborhood is statistically not as safe, its still a SAFE neighborhood by any standard.
Titus same person who thinks races have different ancestors. Its bullyshyt. By that I mean his stat isn't worth mentioning because of its insignificance.
You may think its easy for him that's your opinion. |
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