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Porksta
Joined: 05 May 2011
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 Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Why don't schools offer return airfare? It seems like a great way to keep employees. If I hate my job I won't quit, because I want to go home for free. |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Marquis wrote: |
I got a similar explanation from my recruiter, about new standards/laws making it to where return flights aren't required. I knew this was nonsense but I didn't really care for a return flight, I'm going into this long term.
I wouldn't agree with the folk saying "don't sign X because X" we all have certain conditions that make certain things acceptable or not, for me, a flight back didn't matter but I did request better pay and vacation, which I got.
Question goes back to, what do you want out of going to Korea? Or do you even know and plan to figure it out once you get there? |
There are no new laws on this. Flights (one way or return) have never been required. It's always been a job benefit to attract people. There are plenty of recent graduates that are penniless and the Korean jobs offers are attractive because there are no starting costs. A flight and accommodation are provided. |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Porksta wrote: |
| Why don't schools offer return airfare? It seems like a great way to keep employees. If I hate my job I won't quit, because I want to go home for free. |
I think that most still do offer it.
The ones that don't are just trying to save a buck. Most likely they've been fed some BS from a recruiter (probably something to the lines of "Americans are desperate for jobs and Korea is their only option. The market is flooded with foreign teachers.") or they heard from a friend at another hagwon about how they offered only a one-way ticket. Many reasons. Generally, it comes down to short sighted planning. |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Troglodyte wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| schwa wrote: |
If schools all suddenly stopped offering airfare, they'd still get ample applicants. Just look at all the recent threads about folks having trouble finding jobs here. Hagwon owners are starting to wise up to this. There have been rumblings about this change for a year or more & it seems its gaining traction. Welcome to the new normal within the next couple years, I predict.
Meanwhile, if a contract promises flights, thats binding. Theres nothing about flights in labor law so the contract prevails. |
Quite true. |
Look at how many people are teaching elsewhere in Asia. The main things that attract teachers to Korea are the relatively good salary and the job benefits (accommodation and airfare). For the same hours, you can get better salary elsewhere in Asia. You can also work in places with a lower cost of living.
The other main reason that so many teachers come here are that there are just so many ELT job here. There is really no comparison with most other countries. I can think of a few places in Asia with lots of language schools, but Korea is definitely up there. And they advertise a lot. In fact, they advertise too much. One of the big reasons that people have a hard time finding a job is because recruiters advertise for jobs that they don't have. They attract a lot of people but then turn them away. (And there are various reason why they do this.) |
Good points but the initial conclusions remains true: take out airfaire and it is likely teaching jobs still get filled in Korea due to the high number of applicants. |
I disagree. If you take out the airfare completely, SOME jobs will get filled simply because there are so many openings. But a lot of people will start going elsewhere. One of the main reasons that people have told me for why they chose Korea over Japan was the initial cost being lower for Korea. A lot of people are tempted by the higher income in Japan (even after you factor in rent). If the offer job benefits for Korea and Japan were the same, most people will take Japan. Better money (or fewer hours necessary), portable visa, better general living conditions. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:31 am Post subject: |
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No worries Trog and all this is is your opinion and mine! Until airfare does get pulled, we have no way of truly knowing.
As for Japan, the "if" is a rather large one as really the job market there for FTs is not great, the hours are not that lighter and rent is far higher in many places unless you wish to live in the boonies. The money is not always better and the better jobs that do pay more require a lot more than they do in Korea for now. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| The money is not always better and the better jobs that do pay more require a lot more than they do in Korea for now. |
Some jobs there pay $100,000 a year. (Serious.) That would be working in a university. Those jobs are hard to get into. Japanese language ability is asked for, among other things. How competitive are those jobs? Not sure, but they exist. |
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bagsofkay
Joined: 17 Dec 2013
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| Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Marquis wrote: |
I got a similar explanation from my recruiter, about new standards/laws making it to where return flights aren't required. I knew this was nonsense but I didn't really care for a return flight, I'm going into this long term.
I wouldn't agree with the folk saying "don't sign X because X" we all have certain conditions that make certain things acceptable or not, for me, a flight back didn't matter but I did request better pay and vacation, which I got.
Question goes back to, what do you want out of going to Korea? Or do you even know and plan to figure it out once you get there? |
I would tend to somewhat agree with this…however, for me it comes down to honesty. I don't care if air fare is included or not because like you, I'm not even sure if I'll be returning after a year. What I definitely DO care about is having a recruiter feed me a bunch of BS about how it's the contractual norm to not have it included or that it's not "allowed" by some association, and therefore I should just blindly accept this and sign the contract. To me it's insulting and it completely turned me off of anything they said because it can't be trusted. You have to remember, if you're going through a recruiter you have to trust them with some fairly sensitive personal documents and if I can't trust someone to give me reliable and honest basic information, I'm definitely not going to trust them with copies of my degree, CRC, passport, etc.
My other recruiter was very straight up with me, he told me the good and the bad with each offer and never tried to pressure or manipulate me into anything at all, and eventually I accepted an offer through him (with roundtrip airfare). I still don't trust him, but I feel somewhat confident he's not going to jerk me around too much. All that being said…I'm new so perhaps my opinions could be misplaced or misguided…at any rate I'm super excited to come to Korea  |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| bagsofkay wrote: |
| I don't care if air fare is included or not because like you, I'm not even sure if I'll be returning after a year. |
Once one year has passed, most people really need a change of scenery (at least temporarily). Don't assume Korea is a place you want to live long term before you've even come. A flight is expensive. Think of it as $1,000. |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:03 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
No worries Trog and all this is is your opinion and mine! Until airfare does get pulled, we have no way of truly knowing.
As for Japan, the "if" is a rather large one as really the job market there for FTs is not great, the hours are not that lighter and rent is far higher in many places unless you wish to live in the boonies. The money is not always better and the better jobs that do pay more require a lot more than they do in Korea for now. |
True. It's all just speculation at this point. I don't even think that we'll see a major change in the situation for a few years at least. |
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young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:42 am Post subject: |
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| Marquis wrote: |
| There are plenty of recent graduates that are penniless and the Korean jobs offers are attractive because there are no starting costs. A flight and accommodation are provided. |
I would not trust a hogwan for free airfare or accommodation unless somebody I trusted had good experiences with the hagwon. But who can you trust?
Sadly I turned down a public school position and was delayed for 7 months or so because I thought with the money I had it was too risky. In retrospect I had enough to risk a public school (you get 300 US on the spot in cash until you're first paycheck, and the accommodation is immediate and free), a hogwan I don't know about that.
A hogwan with miserly pay and no return airfare should be turned down immediately. Also 'no return air fare' is most likely one thing out of many things that is wrong with any hogwan that doesn't provide it, it's out of the norm. Hogwans probably should be rejected just on the 'no return airfare' alone. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:56 am Post subject: |
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| Troglodyte wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
No worries Trog and all this is is your opinion and mine! Until airfare does get pulled, we have no way of truly knowing.
As for Japan, the "if" is a rather large one as really the job market there for FTs is not great, the hours are not that lighter and rent is far higher in many places unless you wish to live in the boonies. The money is not always better and the better jobs that do pay more require a lot more than they do in Korea for now. |
True. It's all just speculation at this point. I don't even think that we'll see a major change in the situation for a few years at least. |
Indeed!
It is possible employers try to tweak the airfare rules (more reimbursement as opposed to up front (this has already started). Some jobs already do not provide airfare in some cases (ex: Uni jobs). |
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Rockhard
Joined: 11 Dec 2013
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| Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:36 am Post subject: |
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I thought it was odd people were still coming to Korea in 2010. Now I'm just speechless. Then again, wouldn't be the first time people were trying to get on the boat after it already left.
This is just how it is. The industry is in a slump, lots of desperate Westerners willing to come, it's just natural that benefits will go down. Wait till it gets to unpaid internships. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:47 am Post subject: |
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| Rockhard wrote: |
I thought it was odd people were still coming to Korea in 2010. Now I'm just speechless. Then again, wouldn't be the first time people were trying to get on the boat after it already left.
This is just how it is. The industry is in a slump, lots of desperate Westerners willing to come, it's just natural that benefits will go down. Wait till it gets to unpaid internships. |
All too often the case is not about accepting lower pay because a person lacks the will to ask for more but rather this very simple formula:
A teaching job in Korea at 2.0 / 2.2 is better than no job back home or a service industry job at minimum wage. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| A teaching job in Korea at 2.0 / 2.2 is better than no job back home or a service industry job at minimum wage. |
No job? How much could one make on the dole for not working (for many, a more enjoyable option than working)?
Service industry? Depends on whether or not the job is a tipped position. A waitress in the U.S. can easily make $25 per hour. That's more than an EFL teacher in Korea. |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:53 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| A teaching job in Korea at 2.0 / 2.2 is better than no job back home or a service industry job at minimum wage. |
No job? How much could one make on the dole for not working (for many, a more enjoyable option than working)?
Service industry? Depends on whether or not the job is a tipped position. A waitress in the U.S. can easily make $25 per hour. That's more than an EFL teacher in Korea. |
I don't think that people get into ELT primarily to make money. Just from the people that I've met, it seems that most become English teachers (for short term or long term) for the experience of living abroad. If you really wanted to make money, there are plenty of jobs that pay better without extensive training. |
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