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Hokie21
Joined: 01 Mar 2011
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 Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:51 am Post subject: |
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| Chaparrastique wrote: |
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
Why would anybody help that regime?
That computer science guy must not have a conscience. |
How are you ever going to change the regime unless you engage with it? More and more isolation just further entrenches and polarizes.
Those teachers are a window to the outside world, a lever that can have a positive effect on the future generation. |
Western teachers aren't going to have any effect on the regime. Hell, the whacko leader of the bunch was educated in the West and look what good that's done for diplomatic relations. The average North Korean citizen is more interested in getting enough food to eat and staying out of a freaking gulag to care whether or not the Computer Science teacher from Canada is a nice guy or not. |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:51 am Post subject: |
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| Hokie21 wrote: |
Western teachers aren't going to have any effect on the regime. |
Actually they will.
Western teachers are teaching the elite- the future leaders of the regime.
Opening the minds of north Koreans to understand and interact with the outside world is a worthy investment.
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Inside North Korea's Western-funded university
In the heart of North Korea's dictatorship, a university - largely paid for by the West - is attempting to open the minds of the state's future elite.
They are the sons of some of the most powerful men in North Korea, including senior military figures.
They are all hand-picked by Kim Jong-un's regime to receive a Western education.
The university's official aim is to equip them with the skills to help modernise the impoverished country and engage with the international community.
Educating North Korea
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03txq49 |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:43 am Post subject: |
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There was an event at Harvard where the President and some of the Faculty from that school came to that I was at yesterday. It is an interesting program, all the American's at the school are very christian. They are very controlled about what they can and can't do, and are constantly monitored. I won't say more than that because the event was off the record and they asked us not to record it or go into too much details about it outside the room.
From what I heard it seems like they are all well intentioned, but perhaps not very effective. I'm skeptical of the people, including the people at the school, who argue that engagement is working, because the NK government picks who it sends there, so of course it only sends those with "good backgrounds" and since the professors can not deviate too much from science and math topics without getting in trouble, nor really interact with North Koreans outside of the school, it's hard to see what will change.
The more promising feature was the medical school, but training will not be much use to the NK people unless the equipment is available, maintained, and the power grid actually consistently works, none of which seems terribly likely. I hope my perceptions are wrong, and they PUST people certainly do believe in their vision, so I wish them luck. |
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Hokie21
Joined: 01 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:49 am Post subject: |
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| Chaparrastique wrote: |
| Hokie21 wrote: |
Western teachers aren't going to have any effect on the regime. |
Actually they will.
Western teachers are teaching the elite- the future leaders of the regime.
Opening the minds of north Koreans to understand and interact with the outside world is a worthy investment.
| Quote: |
Inside North Korea's Western-funded university
In the heart of North Korea's dictatorship, a university - largely paid for by the West - is attempting to open the minds of the state's future elite.
They are the sons of some of the most powerful men in North Korea, including senior military figures.
They are all hand-picked by Kim Jong-un's regime to receive a Western education.
The university's official aim is to equip them with the skills to help modernise the impoverished country and engage with the international community.
Educating North Korea
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03txq49 |
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lol and as I previously said.......Kim Jong-un was educated in Switzerland. What has that accomplished? A dictator is a dictator. He's the one who makes the world go round in that little country of his and his time surrounded by and being educated by westerners obviously didn't change him much did it? |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:18 am Post subject: |
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| While I'd find such a job interesting and the adventure of a lifetime, I just can't get around the fact that such information would be directly used to cause harm to my country. Unless it was the strictest of curriculums taught to elementary-aged children, that focused on basic English, I couldn't handle that. |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Hokie21 wrote: |
his time surrounded by and being educated by westerners obviously didn't change him much did it? |
I don't know. Would being educated in Switzerland alter you from being a silly juvenile troll? Or would it have no effect.
| Steelrails wrote: |
| I just can't get around the fact that such information would be directly used to cause harm to my country. |
...teaching north koreans english and engaging them in cultural exchange is hardly going to result in "damage to your country".
If you want to accuse anyone of supporting the regime you might want to point the finger at american politicians who donated nuclear reactors to the country and propped up the kims with all kinds of foreign aid. |
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Hokie21
Joined: 01 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Chaparrastique wrote: |
| Hokie21 wrote: |
his time surrounded by and being educated by westerners obviously didn't change him much did it? |
I don't know. Would being educated in Switzerland alter you from being a silly juvenile troll? Or would it have no effect.
| Steelrails wrote: |
| I just can't get around the fact that such information would be directly used to cause harm to my country. |
...teaching north koreans english and engaging them in cultural exchange is hardly going to result in "damage to your country".
If you want to accuse anyone of supporting the regime you might want to point the finger at american politicians who donated nuclear reactors to the country and propped up the kims with all kinds of foreign aid. |
Are you implying that I'm a silly juvenile troll because you can't support your own argument? lol name calling....totally not juvenile at all hahaha.
The point is that this isn't just another 3rd world country where they are slowly advancing and integrating themselves with foreign powers. NK is a totalitarian, family dictatorship. Nothing improves/changes without the Kim's. The guy was educated in the West, heck he even loves Dennis Rodman (more so than Americans do) but that crap doesn't matter. All he cares about is power and ensuring his family stays on top. If a few of his lackeys bump shoulders with a few westerners so what? What do you think will happen to them if they try to tell Kim what to do? Off to the dogs with you like Uncle Jang.
The point being, the regime is Kim. He doesn't want to give up power and he's not going to lose power because a few westerners come over to give Microsoft Office lessons. Do you think he'd even allow these people into the country if he seriously thought they could change the way things are being run? No. Hence why I said these teachers will have zero effect on the regime. Juvenile enough for ya? |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:02 am Post subject: |
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The guy has been in power 1.5 years, what do you expect him to have done?
I think he's just working the old guard out of the system and trying to get the military on his side before he attemps anything darastic. Otherwise it's his, and his wife's bodies hanging from a Pyongyang street lamp if anything goes bad. |
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Hokie21
Joined: 01 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:56 am Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
The guy has been in power 1.5 years, what do you expect him to have done?
I think he's just working the old guard out of the system and trying to get the military on his side before he attemps anything darastic. Otherwise it's his, and his wife's bodies hanging from a Pyongyang street lamp if anything goes bad. |
I think he's doing the exact same thing his father and grandfather did.
LOL at "just" killing off his family members before he attempts anything "drastic."  |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| Hokie21 wrote: |
| All he cares about is power and ensuring his family stays on top. |
How do you know?
We know very little about the new leader as regards what motivates him. You don't get to fill in the blanks.
His time abroad must have had some effect on him by the simple laws of psychology and physics. Everything we experience has an affect on us wether we detect it or not, every action in this world has a reaction. Every seed planted bears fruit if given long enough.
We already know he's different to his forebears. Did you see Jong-Il running around with a black American for a best friend? So obviously there is some difference.
If change comes to a country like North Korea, it will likely come from the top. Educating the elite and exposing them to foreign ideas and culture will absolutely have an effect in terms of how they will relate to the outside world and the decisions they will make when they take up positions within the regime.
Even if Kim makes all the decisions as an autocrat, those with a western-style education will be needed if he instigates glasznost. Increasing the number of such people in the country will help the transition no matter what happens. Because you're increasing the overall groundswell of people aware of a better way of life.
| Jvalmer wrote: |
| I think he's just working the old guard out of the system and trying to get the military on his side before he attemps anything darastic. |
I think so.
We already have several tangible signs that he has a long-term plan to modernize his country.
What springs to mind is his programme to increase the free trade zone, build infrastructure and build a tourist industry. These things don't sound like much, but they are all unprecedented. So is the recent official letter hinting at reconciliation. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| Chaparrastique wrote: |
| Hokie21 wrote: |
| All he cares about is power and ensuring his family stays on top. |
How do you know?
We know very little about the new leader as regards what motivates him. You don't get to fill in the blanks.
His time abroad must have had some effect on him by the simple laws of psychology and physics. Everything we experience has an affect on us wether we detect it or not, every action in this world has a reaction. Every seed planted bears fruit if given long enough. |
The portrait of Kim Jong Eun that emerges in his U.S. profile is that of a young man who, despite years of education in the West, is steeped in his father’s cult of personality and may be even more mercurial and merciless, officials said.
A senior U.S. official said intelligence analysts believe, for instance, that Kim Jung Eun “tortured small animals” when he was a youth. “He has a violent streak and that’s worrisome,” a senior U.S. official said, summing up the U.S. assessments. [Wall Street Journal]
He is the heir poised to become the next leader of rogue state North Korea. But a probe into the school days of Kim Jong Un – youngest son of dictator Kim Jong Il – proves he is little more than an academic failure who squandered his education playing computer games and basketball. [....]
‘Un tried hard to express himself but he was not very good at German and became flustered when asked to give the answers to a problem. The teachers would see him struggling ashamedly and then move on. They left him in peace. ’He left without getting any exam results at all. He was much more interested in football and basketball than lessons.’ A big fan of star Michael Jordan, Kim Jong Un – who was once caught with a bondage pornographic magazine in his school bag – proved to be a good player on the basketball court. [Daily Mail]
- See more at: http://freekorea.us/2011/12/22/ill-summarize-he-has-a-small-nuclear-arsenal-hes-into-torturing-small-animals-and-bondage-porn-and-he-may-be-an-imbecile/#sthash.k0wfnqzP.dpuf
| Chaparrastique wrote: |
| We already know he's different to his forebears. Did you see Jong-Il running around with a black American for a best friend? So obviously there is some difference. |
Kim Jong Il was a big supporter of the Chicago Bulls, and even put a signed basketball by Michael Jordan in a state museum.
| Chaparrastique wrote: |
If change comes to a country like North Korea, it will likely come from the top. Educating the elite and exposing them to foreign ideas and culture will absolutely have an effect in terms of how they will relate to the outside world and the decisions they will make when they take up positions within the regime.
Even if Kim makes all the decisions as an autocrat, those with a western-style education will be needed if he instigates glasznost. Increasing the number of such people in the country will help the transition no matter what happens. Because you're increasing the overall groundswell of people aware of a better way of life.
| Jvalmer wrote: |
| I think he's just working the old guard out of the system and trying to get the military on his side before he attemps anything darastic. |
I think so.
We already have several tangible signs that he has a long-term plan to modernize his country.
What springs to mind is his programme to increase the free trade zone, build infrastructure and build a tourist industry. These things don't sound like much, but they are all unprecedented. So is the recent official letter hinting at reconciliation. |
None of that is unprecedented. There were "free trade" zones set up by Kim Jong Il, and as for a tourist industry, don't forget about the past experience of Mt. Kumgang that was before Kim Jong Il, also who is going to go there for tourism if they are constantly followed by minders. Kim Jong Il, and Kim Jong Il both played lip service to reconciliation. The fat boy is nothing new, and if anything is stupider and more sadistic. |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| Chaparrastique wrote: |
| We already know he's different to his forebears. Did you see Jong-Il running around with a black American for a best friend? So obviously there is some difference. |
Kim Jong Il was a big supporter of the Chicago Bulls, and even put a signed basketball by Michael Jordan in a state museum. |
Yes. Parading the animals at court is hardly change worthy of accolades. |
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Hokie21
Joined: 01 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Whatever you say Chappy. I hope you're right for everyone's sake but I don't see it. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| I hope that Japanese chef talks more about KJE. I'd take his word over the American propoganda machine. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| I hope that Japanese chef talks more about KJE. I'd take his word over the American propoganda machine. |
Do you have any reason at all for what you think, other than supposition and wishful thinking? |
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