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chungbukdo
Joined: 22 Aug 2010
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 Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:19 am Post subject: |
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My partner is basically indistinguishable from a person from South London and is not a native speaker. I would prefer someone who learned my target language to extremely high proficiency (including accent) like her, rather than someone who learned the language at five years old to high proficiency (these people are termed as native speakers). The reason is that they can better understand my challenges, potential mistakes, and was conscious during the learning process.
However, many prospective students are poor judges of their Korean teachers English ability. So because of information assymetry, it is often safer for them to just hire a native speaker so they dont end up with the typical Korean teacher who can't even order an orange juice when they go abroad. |
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goreality
Joined: 09 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| faeriehazel wrote: |
Ideally, a non-native speaker who has achieved fluency (or as close to it as possible) would be the most effective sort of teacher because he or she would probably be more familiar with the learning process than a native speaker. Such a teacher would be able to better anticipate what sorts of mistakes their students are more prone to.
Realistically speaking, these sorts of teachers are hard to find. The English teachers I had in middle/high schools in Korea all sucked, and they made all sorts of mistakes in class. Also they hated me for committing the unpardonable sin of having lived abroad. |
It doesn't take near fluency in your student's first language to anticipate what kinds of mistakes they will make. Reading a single paper on the topic will give you a much better perspective.
You may use your experience haphazardly and overlook certain things because they weren't problems for you. Your students won't be encourages to use the target language if they know you speak the same, unless they are highly motivated. Also near native fluency is a very subjective term. I agree non-native speakers can teach English, but I don't think given same experience and training they are better. Knowing the other language only helps a little and I don't think benefits outweigh disadvantages specially after a year or so experience with that culture. |
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chungbukdo
Joined: 22 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:58 am Post subject: |
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| goreality wrote: |
| faeriehazel wrote: |
Ideally, a non-native speaker who has achieved fluency (or as close to it as possible) would be the most effective sort of teacher because he or she would probably be more familiar with the learning process than a native speaker. Such a teacher would be able to better anticipate what sorts of mistakes their students are more prone to.
Realistically speaking, these sorts of teachers are hard to find. The English teachers I had in middle/high schools in Korea all sucked, and they made all sorts of mistakes in class. Also they hated me for committing the unpardonable sin of having lived abroad. |
It doesn't take near fluency in your student's first language to anticipate what kinds of mistakes they will make. Reading a single paper on the topic will give you a much better perspective.
You may use your experience haphazardly and overlook certain things because they weren't problems for you. Your students won't be encourages to use the target language if they know you speak the same, unless they are highly motivated. Also near native fluency is a very subjective term. I agree non-native speakers can teach English, but I don't think given same experience and training they are better. Knowing the other language only helps a little and I don't think benefits outweigh disadvantages specially after a year or so experience with that culture. |
There is no way reading a single paper will give you anything close to the perspective of knowing the entire language.
Also, language teachers who have not studied a language of equal difficulty to fluency have no demonstrated ability to understand the biggest key to success in a language--long term motivation. Hiring them is like hiring a fat personal trainer. |
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aq8knyus
Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London
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| Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:32 am Post subject: |
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| chungbukdo wrote: |
| goreality wrote: |
| faeriehazel wrote: |
Ideally, a non-native speaker who has achieved fluency (or as close to it as possible) would be the most effective sort of teacher because he or she would probably be more familiar with the learning process than a native speaker. Such a teacher would be able to better anticipate what sorts of mistakes their students are more prone to.
Realistically speaking, these sorts of teachers are hard to find. The English teachers I had in middle/high schools in Korea all sucked, and they made all sorts of mistakes in class. Also they hated me for committing the unpardonable sin of having lived abroad. |
It doesn't take near fluency in your student's first language to anticipate what kinds of mistakes they will make. Reading a single paper on the topic will give you a much better perspective.
You may use your experience haphazardly and overlook certain things because they weren't problems for you. Your students won't be encourages to use the target language if they know you speak the same, unless they are highly motivated. Also near native fluency is a very subjective term. I agree non-native speakers can teach English, but I don't think given same experience and training they are better. Knowing the other language only helps a little and I don't think benefits outweigh disadvantages specially after a year or so experience with that culture. |
There is no way reading a single paper will give you anything close to the perspective of knowing the entire language.
Also, language teachers who have not studied a language of equal difficulty to fluency have no demonstrated ability to understand the biggest key to success in a language--long term motivation. Hiring them is like hiring a fat personal trainer. |
Would you say that a doctor is incapable of treating a patient with cancer because they had not themselves ever been a cancer sufferer?
Someone who has learnt the violin to proficiency has also demonstrated the ability to understand the necessity of long term motivation. |
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Stain
Joined: 08 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:02 am Post subject: |
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| Basically, it doesn't matter if a teacher speaks a lick of Korean. When talking about conversational English, then it's best to throw them into the water without a life jacket. Sure, they may drown the first few or hundred times; however, eventually, they will rise to the occasion. That is assuming they are still alive. |
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Threequalseven
Joined: 08 May 2012
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| The downside of being a non-native English teacher is that you might not know when you make a mistake. However, I imagine there are some obvious upsides. Many Koreans have told me that the English they learn is much different from the English they hear native English teachers speaking, and they don't know which way is accurate. I think this is because many English teachers have a tendency to not give a shit about whether they're speaking coherently or using proper grammar. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Rockhard wrote: |
| Squire wrote: |
| I've worked at five different public schools here and with several KETs and homeroom teachers. Of five actual Korean English teachers I'd say only one was/is fluent enough to teach in English without continuously making mistakes. A couple more speak good English for Koreans but don't ever socialize with foreigners so simply don't get the practice. As far as I'm aware none of them have any interest in English language TV either. That's not to say they can't teach English well, but when they've tried to teach English in English the expressions they use seem very scripted and unnatural. The point I'm getting at its they can't create a realistic immersion environment. |
In other words, at the current price level ($3,000 a month), schools can pick between fluent-speaking but untrained natives or trained Koreans that can barely speak English. It's not a great choice. But clearly the native speaker is going to be more effective.
A native who is trained as a teacher and fluent in Korean would cost way more than schools are willing to pay. And trained Koreans who are fluent in English have far better opportunities open to them and wouldn't work for such a low wage. |
You know there is something to be said for experience. Also, kids get more excited for English and speak it more throughout the day because of my being there. With the Korean English teachers, they speak Korean and have that confucian barrier that keeps them apart. With me, we're almost equal. It makes the kids more excited to approach me and practice speaking much more than if I weren't there.
True some native speakers can be on the slow side starting out. Probably took me two or three years to start getting on the ball. Now, I blow the competition away. Ha ha. Use some good powerpoints, find some good activities. If you have to use the book, negotiate to do it one week and the second week your own far more exciting material, perhaps with a loose connection to either the theme or content of that specific chapter.
My desk area is plastered with English posters and drawings from past students. I have a few other props and a big bag of man won candy in my drawer bought once a semester. If there's NET cuts, I'll be the last to go. 
Experience, experience, experience..... |
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