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shitaki
Joined: 19 Mar 2012
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 Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Died By Bear wrote: |
I was never one that believed racism was so outwardly pronounced in the heartland of America until I was riding home with my close friend Quan Vo from a softball game at 2 in the afternoon one day in 1995. I was exhausted from an all nighter we had pulled, then the game wore me out even more.
Quan grew up in Ohio. He'd told me that white people can be very racist, some - not all, but I assumed it was all in his head; I dismissed what he said because I'd never witnessed anything like that in my life.
We were at a stop light and I'd laid my seat all the way back to get some rest while he drove. All of a sudden I hear three males shouting "Ching Chang Chong Chinese laundry" and more slurs along those lines. At first my brain said "It's someone we know just kidding around" - Quan has many, many friends. I heard his angry voice say "Pull over asshole"
I immediately raised my seat up and gave them a look of death. All three of them (High school or early university age) all of a sudden got a look of terror. They had thought he was alone, now the odds changed.
They took off and never looked back. Quan was visibly upset. I remember him looking at me and saying "NOW do you understand?"
All I could do was try to assure him that they were assholes and not to think twice about it.
But I know he felt bad. |
As a Vietnamese-American and an Asian-American, I know your friend feels like. Growing up, even when I was playing outside, some white males in a truck passing by, were like ching chong ching chong. Of course being younger at the time, I couldn't do anything about it. All my Asian friends growing up here in Dallas had similar experiences. My girlfriend (also Asian-American) even had other students put thumbtacks in her chair because she was the only Asian in here class. I know it's no joke, and I feel like other Asian-Americans would understand. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| krnpowr wrote: |
| Sesame wrote: |
| T-J wrote: |
Our son was born in the U.S. and he attended public school there. We returned to Korea six years ago and our son is in public school here.
My wife experienced more overt racist comments in the U.S. than I've ever experienced here. The virility of the comments and insults she received there far exceed anything said to either of us here in Korea.
I received more "passive aggressive" comments in the U.S. Than I've ever received here. People assuming my son is adopted, etc.
My son was viewed as much more of an ethnic outsider in kindergarten being the only Asian in a class of 25 other students purely of European decent.
All of that being said, are there occasional problems here in Korea? Of course. People are people.
Having actually lived in both countries and having had my son in both school systems, I find Korea more agreeable.
Of course this is just my personal experience. YMMV.
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You just probably dont understand what people say here. And where did you go in the US..must have been in the ghetto or deep back country south. They dont act like that in your average suburb.
I call BS on your story. Nobody is going to say racist stuff to your asian wife and mixed kids out loud. In my 29 years living in the burbs I never once heard anyone say racist things to an asian or to my adopted cousin who is from China. Koreans display their racism WAY more than Americans do. |
Oh B.S.! That's the biggest crock of sh!t I've ever heard! Unless you're an Asian that grew up in America, you will NEVER know what Asians growing up in America or any other Western country have to endure. Your conclusions based merely on anecdotal evidence are far from reality. |
Oh hush. Do you claim to know what kind of racism white folks go through in Korea? Yet I'm sure you'd lecture them on it.
I have a different view- I may not perfectly understand what they go through in Korea, and they may not perfectly understand what Asians go through back home, but that doesn't mean we don't know squat and can't contribute and comment. Don't dismiss someone's opinion out of hand just because of their race or ethnicity. |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Stain wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| FWIW, I'm guessing TJ could understand what's being said around him in Korea. He's pretty fluent, moreso than most here. And he's obviously got a lot of insight having lived in two countries with his family. |
Yeah, Captain, but how is his English? He could have misinterpreted what people were saying in the US, especially if it was as he described "passive-aggressive" in nature. |
lulz
yeah tj, the problem is that you have some language issue that invalidates your and your family's experiences, obviously |
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krnpowr
Joined: 08 Dec 2011
Location: Midwest, USA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| krnpowr wrote: |
| Sesame wrote: |
| T-J wrote: |
Our son was born in the U.S. and he attended public school there. We returned to Korea six years ago and our son is in public school here.
My wife experienced more overt racist comments in the U.S. than I've ever experienced here. The virility of the comments and insults she received there far exceed anything said to either of us here in Korea.
I received more "passive aggressive" comments in the U.S. Than I've ever received here. People assuming my son is adopted, etc.
My son was viewed as much more of an ethnic outsider in kindergarten being the only Asian in a class of 25 other students purely of European decent.
All of that being said, are there occasional problems here in Korea? Of course. People are people.
Having actually lived in both countries and having had my son in both school systems, I find Korea more agreeable.
Of course this is just my personal experience. YMMV.
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You just probably dont understand what people say here. And where did you go in the US..must have been in the ghetto or deep back country south. They dont act like that in your average suburb.
I call BS on your story. Nobody is going to say racist stuff to your asian wife and mixed kids out loud. In my 29 years living in the burbs I never once heard anyone say racist things to an asian or to my adopted cousin who is from China. Koreans display their racism WAY more than Americans do. |
Oh B.S.! That's the biggest crock of sh!t I've ever heard! Unless you're an Asian that grew up in America, you will NEVER know what Asians growing up in America or any other Western country have to endure. Your conclusions based merely on anecdotal evidence are far from reality. |
Oh hush. Do you claim to know what kind of racism white folks go through in Korea? Yet I'm sure you'd lecture them on it.
I have a different view- I may not perfectly understand what they go through in Korea, and they may not perfectly understand what Asians go through back home, but that doesn't mean we don't know squat and can't contribute and comment. Don't dismiss someone's opinion out of hand just because of their race or ethnicity. |
You don't understand. And anyone can throw their two-cents worth in, but that doesn't mean they know squat. I don't know any Asian-American that didn't put up with racial harassment on a regular basis. All these "ESL teachers" in Korea have a "slight" taste of racism for the first time in their lives and they claim that Korea is the most racist place on earth and only they can feel the burden of such grievances. Pfft... Frickin cry me a river.  It burns now that the shoe is on the other foot, don't it? But don't think foreigners in Korea have it worse than Asians in the West, because they don't! |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Stain wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Sesame wrote: |
| T-J wrote: |
Our son was born in the U.S. and he attended public school there. We returned to Korea six years ago and our son is in public school here.
My wife experienced more overt racist comments in the U.S. than I've ever experienced here. The virility of the comments and insults she received there far exceed anything said to either of us here in Korea.
I received more "passive aggressive" comments in the U.S. Than I've ever received here. People assuming my son is adopted, etc.
My son was viewed as much more of an ethnic outsider in kindergarten being the only Asian in a class of 25 other students purely of European decent.
All of that being said, are there occasional problems here in Korea? Of course. People are people.
Having actually lived in both countries and having had my son in both school systems, I find Korea more agreeable.
Of course this is just my personal experience. YMMV.
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You just probably dont understand what people say here. And where did you go in the US..must have been in the ghetto or deep back country south. They dont act like that in your average suburb.
I call BS on your story. Nobody is going to say racist stuff to your asian wife and mixed kids out loud. In my 29 years living in the burbs I never once heard anyone say racist things to an asian or to my adopted cousin who is from China. Koreans display their racism WAY more than Americans do. |
Everyone has their own experiences... and I've come to not discount someone's just because they differ from mine.
FWIW, I'm guessing TJ could understand what's being said around him in Korea. He's pretty fluent, moreso than most here. And he's obviously got a lot of insight having lived in two countries with his family. |
Yeah, Captain, but how is his English? He could have misinterpreted what people were saying in the US, especially if it was as he described "passive-aggressive" in nature. |
It's no secret on this forum that I don't get along with TJ... but come on... the guy's English is fine. He was born and raised in the US.
I may have different experiences than him... and very different opinions, but that does not invalidate his post. |
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Unposter
Joined: 04 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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IMHO, there is plenty of racism in this world.
But, in Korea, there are plenty of programs both governmental and private charities that are working hard to integrate and help multi-cultural families in Korea as well as educate the larger population.
Multi-cultural families in Korea get all sorts of assistance and subsidies, including private tutors.
Every public school has to have at least one teacher each year go through multi-cultural training.
I find some of the programs to be more of the "melting pot" variety than the "salad bowl" variety but there are real attempts and IMHO, things are getting better.
In the U.S., where I am from, there are definitely programs, but the general population, IMHO, is in a let's de-fund everything and deny that there are problems frame of mind. And, I think there is actually more negativity about immigrants.
I get the sense the Korean government is working hard to make immigrants and multi-cultural families more accepted, where as, there is virtually no concern about such groups in the U.S., and if there is concern, it is usually negative, like they are taking our jobs, our places at schools and receiving too much government money.
It is certainly not perfect in Korea; there are plenty of problems, but things have come a long way, mostly due to the effort of the government and some private charitable groups.
In both countries, the U.S. and Korea, success and acceptance often, though not exclusively, occur with higher degrees of social integration and/or wealth. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| krnpowr wrote: |
You don't understand. And anyone can throw their two-cents worth in, but that doesn't mean they know squat. |
But it also doesn't mean that they don't know squat. How do you know they don't know squat? Sure, some might not know squat, but I'm sure there are many who at least have some sort of connection and some insight. You have to take each person's comments individually and examine them, not just dismiss them out of hand.
Just because one person makes a bad comment, doesn't mean that every comment by any non-Asian person is therefore invalid.
| Quote: |
| All these "ESL teachers" in Korea have a "slight" taste of racism for the first time in their lives |
While some cases may be slight, there are certainly people here who have experienced more than "slight" racism, either in the form of violence, extremely nasty comments, or worst of all- insults to their children and family.
| Quote: |
| It burns now that the shoe is on the other foot, don't it? |
I'm sorry, but I've been an apologist on these boards for 5 years, but I've never delighted in white Americans here experiencing racism and it being some kind "lesson in justice", I may disagree and point out their hypocrisy or bring up the difference in experiences and the pitfalls of being a minority for the first time in your life, but nothing like your comment of "it burns not that the shoe is on the other foot". Are you actually taking delight in this? The issue is stopping racism- against Koreans AND foreigners and also looking at it back home, not some score and points racial game.
We're all in this together. In my early days I pointed out how the anti-Korean bigotry did not endear Korean Americans and Asian Americans to people's cries of racism and divided, rather than united us. You're doing the same thing in reverse. If I was white and I heard something like that out of your mouth, my attitude would be "screw you and your cause".
| Quote: |
| But don't think foreigners in Korea have it worse than Asians in the West, because they don't! |
All depends on the individual. I'm sure there are Asians who have had relatively mild experiences back home, and some who have had awful ones. Same with NETs here. Heck there are other Asians who have had it better in America and worse in Korea, just as there are Asians who have had it worse in America and better in Korea.
And lose the "krnpowr" handle. That's just begging for trouble and people will dismiss your opinions out of hand. Anyways, your rants are making me long for the dulcet tones of komerican (although, thankfully, that stooge has flown the coop)
Last edited by Steelrails on Sun Mar 30, 2014 5:47 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
It's no secret on this forum that I don't get along with TJ... but come on... the guy's English is fine. He was born and raised in the US.
I may have different experiences than him... and very different opinions, but that does not invalidate his post. |
I want to think that Stain was just having a go. But it is a bit telling nonetheless. An American guy says his Korean wife and their son experienced some instances of racism while in the US, more than they've experienced here. Skepticism ensues, his anecdotes are questioned, it's assumed he lived in the ghetto or deep south, his Korean language ability is questioned, his *English* language ability is questioned. People would rather find anything to invalidate his anecdotes, rather than accept them at face value. Obviously, some folks are trolling, but still. |
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Speck7
Joined: 05 Sep 2012
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Zyzyfer wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
It's no secret on this forum that I don't get along with TJ... but come on... the guy's English is fine. He was born and raised in the US.
I may have different experiences than him... and very different opinions, but that does not invalidate his post. |
I want to think that Stain was just having a go. But it is a bit telling nonetheless. An American guy says his Korean wife and their son experienced some instances of racism while in the US, more than they've experienced here. Skepticism ensues, his anecdotes are questioned, it's assumed he lived in the ghetto or deep south, his Korean language ability is questioned, his *English* language ability is questioned. People would rather find anything to invalidate his anecdotes, rather than accept them at face value. Obviously, some folks are trolling, but still. |
Yeah, because NO ONE and I MEAN NO ONE embellishes the truth on the internet. |
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Jongno2bucheon
Joined: 11 Mar 2014
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Speck7 wrote: |
| Jongno2bucheon wrote: |
| Speck7 wrote: |
| cabeza wrote: |
| Sesame wrote: |
| T-J wrote: |
Our son was born in the U.S. and he attended public school there. We returned to Korea six years ago and our son is in public school here.
My wife experienced more overt racist comments in the U.S. than I've ever experienced here. The virility of the comments and insults she received there far exceed anything said to either of us here in Korea.
I received more "passive aggressive" comments in the U.S. Than I've ever received here. People assuming my son is adopted, etc.
My son was viewed as much more of an ethnic outsider in kindergarten being the only Asian in a class of 25 other students purely of European decent.
All of that being said, are there occasional problems here in Korea? Of course. People are people.
Having actually lived in both countries and having had my son in both school systems, I find Korea more agreeable.
Of course this is just my personal experience. YMMV.
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You just probably dont understand what people say here. And where did you go in the US..must have been in the ghetto or deep back country south. They dont act like that in your average suburb.
I call BS on your story. Nobody is going to say racist stuff to your asian wife and mixed kids out loud. In my 29 years living in the burbs I never once heard anyone say racist things to an asian or to my adopted cousin who is from China. Koreans display their racism WAY more than Americans do. |
This guy T-J has always seemed like a pretty straight down the middle dude. Why is he going to lie.
Just because his experience doesn't fit your preconception or narrative doesn't mean you can call it bs. He has lived with his mixed kid and wife in both countries. Have you? If not, back in your hole. |
Here's my view:
Just because TJ "may have" had a few "racist" episodes involving his asian wife and kid doesn't make a trend. You can't take one plot point in a string of data and say it is always like that in States. There's no trend there. There's been numerous examples of xenophobia and racism that I've endured in Korea in my 5 years and many other towards outsiders in Korea which can qualify as a "trend" or a "tendency". Much more so than America. |
Actually, i thought its implicit that his description doesnt encompass all Americans. I actually agree with him, i have experienced far more racism in the US than in Korea. |
In what ways, what color/ethnicity are you? I think white people hear more racism hurled their way from blacks, though, than any other demographic in America. |
Are you saying that race and ethnicity matters in the US? Or that there are different experiences based on race? So that means whites in Korea have much to learn from Asian Americans who grew up in US?
Or is that not what you are saying? |
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Jongno2bucheon
Joined: 11 Mar 2014
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Speck7 wrote: |
| Jongno2bucheon wrote: |
| AfroBurrito wrote: |
| Jongno2bucheon wrote: |
| AfroBurrito wrote: |
| Jongno2bucheon wrote: |
| AfroBurrito wrote: |
I am mixed race. Black/Latina. And am now pregnant with a Black/Latin/Korean...whom I hope will be very happy and proud to be mixed race.
I fear what this may mean for his/her life in Korea (his father wants us to stay in Korea to make money, and then return to the States), because while Korea does appear to have made significant progress in its views on foreigners wedded to Koreans, I read just as many horrifying stories about children being bullied and taunted for not being "real" Koreans. I'll not be subjecting my child to such nonsense if it can be helped. |
It happens to Asian American kids all the time. We are told we are not American all the time, even though we were born in the US and grew up there. I imagine that happens way less to other ethnicities |
While I am mixed Black/Latina I look more Latina, with the exception of my hair. Thus inducing many a redneck or mindless fool to call me and my cousins "beaners" or encourage us to "Go back to Mexico!" I am from Texas. Experiences are probably different depending upon where one lives. The SF Bay Area has tended to embrace diversity more, but we cannot all live in enlightened communities. |
I hear that too occasionally, even in Los Angeles. " go back to where you came from" ! All while they are in a car driving away of course and probably visiting from a different state driving on my tax paid roads.
Bay Area is diverse, but not the heart of SF.... Outside of the mission district its hard to see Mexicans around. SF lays the carpet down for east coast whites, even over the old school hippies it seems. Across the bay bridge is another story though.
What about Dallas? Do you think its okay and diverse there? |
I only worked in San Francisco. I lived in Oakland. I hella <3 Oakland!
I am from Austin, which claims to be ethnically and racially diverse, but really isn't. There is a different type of diversity to be had there. In my opinion Houston is far more diverse than the other Texas cities, but it gets a bad rap because it is enormous, ugly, and humid. I actually think Houston has loads of charm in the right spots. But that's just me.
Dallas is waaaaaay too hoighty-toighty and conservative for me. George W. Bush chose SMU for his Presidential library and Dallas as his home for a reason.
People think of Dallas as our Debutante city. |
Ahhh hahaha oh no. I had my hopes up for Dallas.
Yeah i like oakland too. East bay is a cool place. The best place imo outside of LA and Hawaii. ^^
But one thing about texas i like is that there seems to be less creepy white doods there that love fetishizing on Asian girls. That is about the only part of conservatism i like. But yeah thanks for the heads up about dallas! I think with your kids backgroundthey are already prime candidates to be the next mayor of Los Angeles, lemme know if you need a campaign manager. Kk  |
Do you find WMAW relationships "creepy"? What about AMWW or WWBM/WMBW relationships? Creepy, too? |
http://creepywhiteguys.tumblr.com
Just read that website and the creepy things white guys say to asian women. Of course id imagine this happens more often in the US than in Korea simply because there is less racism against minorities in Korea.
Last edited by Jongno2bucheon on Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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jazzmaster
Joined: 30 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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I was given verbal abuse in school. I was called "gay", "poof", "bender", "bellend", "bent", and many more slurs.
As a straight white male these slurs didn't upset me, but if I was gay they would have been homophobic hate speech.
My point is, do people of other races get more abuse than white people, or do they remember it whereas white people forget it? |
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Jongno2bucheon
Joined: 11 Mar 2014
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| shitaki wrote: |
| krnpowr wrote: |
| Sesame wrote: |
| T-J wrote: |
Our son was born in the U.S. and he attended public school there. We returned to Korea six years ago and our son is in public school here.
My wife experienced more overt racist comments in the U.S. than I've ever experienced here. The virility of the comments and insults she received there far exceed anything said to either of us here in Korea.
I received more "passive aggressive" comments in the U.S. Than I've ever received here. People assuming my son is adopted, etc.
My son was viewed as much more of an ethnic outsider in kindergarten being the only Asian in a class of 25 other students purely of European decent.
All of that being said, are there occasional problems here in Korea? Of course. People are people.
Having actually lived in both countries and having had my son in both school systems, I find Korea more agreeable.
Of course this is just my personal experience. YMMV.
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You just probably dont understand what people say here. And where did you go in the US..must have been in the ghetto or deep back country south. They dont act like that in your average suburb.
I call BS on your story. Nobody is going to say racist stuff to your asian wife and mixed kids out loud. In my 29 years living in the burbs I never once heard anyone say racist things to an asian or to my adopted cousin who is from China. Koreans display their racism WAY more than Americans do. |
Oh B.S.! That's the biggest crock of sh!t I've ever heard! Unless you're an Asian that grew up in America, you will NEVER know what Asians growing up in America or any other Western country have to endure. Your conclusions based merely on anecdotal evidence are far from reality. |
Omg yes someone gets it. I feel like another people like they know what Asians go through in America or any other Western country. I'm Asian-American born in Texas in Dallas. My Asian friends and I all had similar experiences with racism growing up, from comments to even bullying. Don't act like racism doesn't happen as often in America, because it happens to Asians all the time. Doesn't matter where you grow up, it happens everywhere. |
Shiet, dallas is like that?
Fawkin shiet. Time to lock and load |
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Jongno2bucheon
Joined: 11 Mar 2014
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| krnpowr wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| krnpowr wrote: |
| Sesame wrote: |
| T-J wrote: |
Our son was born in the U.S. and he attended public school there. We returned to Korea six years ago and our son is in public school here.
My wife experienced more overt racist comments in the U.S. than I've ever experienced here. The virility of the comments and insults she received there far exceed anything said to either of us here in Korea.
I received more "passive aggressive" comments in the U.S. Than I've ever received here. People assuming my son is adopted, etc.
My son was viewed as much more of an ethnic outsider in kindergarten being the only Asian in a class of 25 other students purely of European decent.
All of that being said, are there occasional problems here in Korea? Of course. People are people.
Having actually lived in both countries and having had my son in both school systems, I find Korea more agreeable.
Of course this is just my personal experience. YMMV.
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You just probably dont understand what people say here. And where did you go in the US..must have been in the ghetto or deep back country south. They dont act like that in your average suburb.
I call BS on your story. Nobody is going to say racist stuff to your asian wife and mixed kids out loud. In my 29 years living in the burbs I never once heard anyone say racist things to an asian or to my adopted cousin who is from China. Koreans display their racism WAY more than Americans do. |
Oh B.S.! That's the biggest crock of sh!t I've ever heard! Unless you're an Asian that grew up in America, you will NEVER know what Asians growing up in America or any other Western country have to endure. Your conclusions based merely on anecdotal evidence are far from reality. |
Oh hush. Do you claim to know what kind of racism white folks go through in Korea? Yet I'm sure you'd lecture them on it.
I have a different view- I may not perfectly understand what they go through in Korea, and they may not perfectly understand what Asians go through back home, but that doesn't mean we don't know squat and can't contribute and comment. Don't dismiss someone's opinion out of hand just because of their race or ethnicity. |
You don't understand. And anyone can throw their two-cents worth in, but that doesn't mean they know squat. I don't know any Asian-American that didn't put up with racial harassment on a regular basis. All these "ESL teachers" in Korea have a "slight" taste of racism for the first time in their lives and they claim that Korea is the most racist place on earth and only they can feel the burden of such grievances. Pfft... Frickin cry me a river. It burns now that the shoe is on the other foot, don't it? But don't think foreigners in Korea have it worse than Asians in the West, because they don't! |
quoted for truth,
Although i will have to say, whites in korea, i get along with them far far better than whites in america. |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Speck7 wrote: |
| Yeah, because NO ONE and I MEAN NO ONE embellishes the truth on the internet. |
what no way ! mind = blown |
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