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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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 Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 3:59 pm Post subject: Re: Is being single selfish? |
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| Died By Bear wrote: |
There are volunteer groups that do nothing but visit hospice and hospitals for people that are without any family. They sit and hold hands with dying patients, read them stories, play their favorite music, and keep them company. Also remember that seniors who participate at senior centers have many friends. Family squabbles put more people in the grave early than not.  |
Yes, there are volunteers. When I was in school, I was one for our local elderly. The thing that struck me most about it all was the quiet desperation of it all. I also saw a news special some time back on elderly people living alone here in Korea. One interview was especially harsh: the old woman lamented that she regularly wanted to kill herself because of her loneliness, and when she told her sister of this, her sister evidently replied, "First save up enough money for a funeral, then you can kill yourself." At least in the West you'll have a suicide hotline to call and get a bit of attention, but I don't think that's much consolation. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| the old woman lamented that she regularly wanted to kill herself because of her loneliness |
Why didn't she hang out with her sister more often? She sounds like a laugh. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
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| the old woman lamented that she regularly wanted to kill herself because of her loneliness |
Why didn't she hang out with her sister more often? She sounds like a laugh. |
You laugh, but the interview mentioned that she wanted to live with her sister and her sister refused. It's hard to imagine being so lonely that even living with someone who would say something like that to you seems better than continuing to endure it. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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You laugh, but the interview mentioned that she wanted to live with her sister and her sister refused. It's hard to imagine being so lonely that even living with someone who would say something like that to you seems better than continuing to endure it. |
True, it's pretty sad when family members can't get on to that extent. Makes you wonder what happened in the past for them to get to that stage |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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Not sure you can get an honest answer from married people with kids on this subject. One of the truths is just too brutal.
People with kids can imagine being single, they have been single at one point. They may not enjoy being married, even wish for being single again.
But to say that they regret having kids, is practically the same as wishing their children dead. It isn't a nice thought, and few people entertain it...thankfully.
To suggest that people may regret not having children is a non-trivial point but far too simplistic.
We can regret just about anything.
Not sure that selfishness has anything to do with having children...or not.
People, by nature, are selfish but towards different ends.
Every choice can be said to be selfish...it's a circuitous argument.
Where regret is concerned, it favors single and no kids.
Fewer potential regrets...fewer people to disappoint.
Where rewards are concerned...children for sure.
You never see any human being so happy as when they are proud of their children. |
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nicwr2002
Joined: 17 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Are gay couples selfish then? Besides adopting a child they can't really have a child of their own. Many people have said that the best part of being married and having kids is the emotional component they receive from interacting with their kids. Will a gay couple regret not having kids in the future? That arguement about regretting is definitely subjective. |
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radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Newbie wrote: |
| radcon wrote: |
| To those with kids: can you tell us what benefits you gain from being parents. Be specific. The downsides are obvious and numerous. |
You can argue some or most of these are selfish, and I'm okay with that.
1. Love. A love I never had before, and never knew could be so strong. I always kinda heard parents talk about this and would think, "Ah, that's nice." But I never really got it. I do now. It's unbelievable.
2. Life long companionship.
3. The chance to teach someone about all the mistakes I made in my life and help guide them.
4. The unbelievable pride in seeing my kids accomplish something new. Whether it was the first smile, first step, or scoring a hat tirck in soccer.
5. It's actually a really great feeling to put someone ahead of yourself in all matters.
6. Government of Canada and Ontario give us money for our kids. (if you're looking for pratical things.
7. The knowledge that when I die part of me will live on with my girls.
8. Never a dull or quiet Christmas, Easter, summer holiday etc.
9. Inspiration to make the best of myself.
10. Stability
11. No more drunken stupors.
12. Looking forward to being able, in about 10 years or so, to absolutely harrass and scare the crap out of any boy that comes-a-calling.
13. Seeing my parents fall in love with my children.
14. Laughter.
15. It's not creepy for me to go the movie theater and watch things like Frozen when I have a kid with me.
16. Coming home from work tired, annoyed, bothered, and then having my baby smile as soon as she sees me. All my troubles melt away instantly. To be fair, I kinda think when I was single and I came home to a super excited dog it was about the same!
I could go on I'm sure. |
1. I have people love me for who I am and what I do not because they have no choice or because I feed them.
2. I have life long companions who are not my children.
3. I'm a teacher and have been a youth sports coach so I teach others who are not my kids.
4. No answer to this but don't let your pride go overboard like many parents do these days. I also would feel pride for my own accomplishments.
5. That's a dangerous mindset and a major failing of many parents IMHO.
6. Not nearly as much money as you would have in your pocket if you didn't have kids.
7. What part will live on with your kids? Your big ears? You genetic predisposition to disease?
8. Maybe sometimes one might prefer a quiet holiday. You don't have any option.
9. One doesn't need kids to do this, just motivation.
10. I'd argue that having kids makes your life more unstable. Kids cost money. A lot of money. The more money you have the more stability you have.
11. I quit drinking and I don't have kids. Imagine that. But If I want to have a drunken episode tonight I can do just that without setting a bad example for some kid or embarrassing them.
12. Ridiculous.
13. Reasonable but in the end not important enough to me to make huge sacrifices in my life.
14. I laugh at the absurdity of your posts and I don't have kids. I bet for as much as your kids make you laugh, they also frustrate you.
15. No interest in seeing movies like that, but if I did I would just take a date. After the movie I will be having sex. After your movie you probably won't be having sex because mom is busy with the kids.
16. Your baby is just as likely to puke on you as smile at you. |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 2:34 am Post subject: |
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| Newbie wrote: |
| Mix1 wrote: |
| Newbie wrote: |
i think there is something within people who want to get married and have kids that is a bit seflish: I don't want to be alone, I want a little one to carry on my name/legacy, etc., Not always, but I think it can be there and some people don't want to admit it. And once you actually do have those kids the selfishness HAS to disappear (if you want to be a decent parent) Sadly it seems in this day and age that many people don't pass up that selfishness. How many parenting websites, books, etc go on about "Make sure you take some ME time" crap. No. Sorry.You have kids. You can take ME time when they're grown up. If you can't handle that, you never should have had kids in the first place. Kids first always. You a distant second. |
That's YOUR take on parenting and I hope most don't follow it. In fact, your take on it is part of a newer trend that puts kids on a pedestal and tends to spoil them or make them think they are the center of the universe. That's not good for society at all. It puts kids ahead of adults (the veterans of childhood) which is completely bassackwards traditionally and historically.
It's also kind of disgusting to see parents fawning over their kids and spoiling them. If they want to do that, ok, but keep them out of everyone else's way and teach them some manners at least. It's not up to the rest of us to take up the slack when these "parents" drop the ball on true parenting and discipline/control. Talk about being "selfish".
There's a book on parenting modeled on the French. Can't remember the name. Kids have their time, and adults have their time, and at night it's adult time including drinks and adult conversation. No kids running around screaming or trying to watch cartoons at volume 11 on the iPad. I hope THAT becomes the new parenting trend. Would build kids who were a bit more humble and didn't think everything revolves around them. |
Don't get me wrong, I hate the parents who treat their kids like the star of the show, the most important person in the world, or as you put it, "fawning ... spoiling ... on a pedestal" stuiff.
My parenting is all about discipline, manners, and teaching them to always think of others first. But my parenting also includes ALWAYS putting my children's needs ahead of mine. I'm not talking, "Daddy buy me that new Barbie" ,... "Absolutely" kind of putting them first, or bubble wrapping them and being afraid to "hurt their feelings".
I find the parenting I hate (the "make sure you take time for yourself. Get out to that spa... make sure you spend time with your friends") and the parenting you hate ("ooh, oooh, everyone, look at my child. Isn't she the cutest") are actually coming from the same kind of parents.
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I don't see a relationship between parents taking time for themselves, but at the same time fawning over the kid. Doesn't seem like much of a connection there. Maybe it's just whom you've met and you decided that they spend too much time for themselves.
Either way, the mentality that parents need time for themselves seems like a good one to me. A person who does that is likely to be healthier and more stable, and thus a better parent. Kids don't need to be hovered over 24/7, they need their own time too, for healthy development.
Kids today tend to view adults as servants who are almost beneath them; they dominate dinner conversations, demand certain foods instead of eating what they are given, interrupt with impunity and give orders to adults. If I did any of those things as a child, I'd have gotten punished severely until I learned my place. Kids today largely don't understand what harsh punishment is, and have zero fear of adults. The "putting kids first" trend is BS and bad for society. |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 2:55 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Mix1 wrote: |
And I believe not all people have the same drives. Some are naturally monogamous (usually the unattractive ones with fewer options) while others are not, and fight like heck against their basic drives. So while YOU might think you are designed to be monogamous, others might not be at all. |
Hah, don't think I didn't notice the subtle mockery there! I'm not exactly model material though, so you might not be too far off the mark.
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Hah, sorry, it wasn't directly meant for you; I've never seen you so I have no idea. But I often hear the same kind of talk from people who have few dating options, whether it's from looks or other reasons. By contrast... some don't have to buy the cow and can get lots of milk for free, so for them there is no reason to make the big purchase unless they really feel they need to. (I guess that's another way of saying those with more options will view things differently so don't expect that the same mindset will work for everyone because everyone's reality is different.)
I agree MOST are served best by mating with one for life and not straying. It's more stable for society as well. However, that's the ideal and NOT necessarily reality. If we always did everything we were "meant" to do, life would be extremely stable almost to a fault. And, your idealized blueprint does not serve everyone best, even if it works best for you. |
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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 4:33 am Post subject: Re: Is being single selfish? |
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| Titus wrote: |
| catman wrote: |
I just got told off by my sister for being single. Well to be more precise she called me selfish because I said that I have no plans on getting married and having kids. In case you are wondering she is married with a couple of kids herself. I think she sees me with having few responsibilities and greater freedom than she has and doesn't believe it to be fair.
I guess it can be considered selfish if you believe our sole purpose in life is to reproduce. However, I am just happier being single and am not looking for a long term relationship. Of course there are times when it would be nice to come home to someone but those thoughts are few and far between.
It was never an issue until I reached 30. Then the questions started coming from certain family members. The funny thing is my parents don't care at all!
I feel bad for women though. They must have twice as much pressure as we men do. |
It is not selfish.
You will die alone. Imagine it. Laying in a hospital bed at 85, alone, nobody to visit, nobody to comfort you.. You quietly suffer alone and wait for the nurse to come to change your diaper b/c maybe today she'll talk to you and you'll feel a moment of human comfort. |
Same thing can happen if you were married. Mickey Rooney's kids and ex-wives bankrupted him. Not sure if he wanted them around when he died. Anyway they keep you drugged up pretty good these days. |
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drydell
Joined: 01 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 5:42 am Post subject: |
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| Died By Bear wrote: |
| I hate breeders w/kids on air flights. 'Selfish' isn't even enough to describe them. They suck more than overweight people that won't pay for two seats. |
Can you elaborate?.. How about buses or trains? Are they also selfish?.. Should parents and their kids stay at home in case they somehow inconvenience your very important life and hurt your sensitive ears?.. It's lucky you were never a child who cried .. |
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Died By Bear
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:03 am Post subject: |
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| drydell wrote: |
Can you elaborate?.. .. |
On long air flights, sedatives work well for the brats whose parents refuse to educate and restrain. Get off your smart phone and pay attention to your bratty kids. |
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drydell
Joined: 01 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Died By Bear wrote: |
| drydell wrote: |
Can you elaborate?.. .. |
On long air flights, sedatives work well for the brats whose parents refuse to educate and restrain. Get off your smart phone and pay attention to your bratty kids. |
Teenager sentiments.
You'll eat your words if and when you ever have a kid. I guarantee it. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:08 am Post subject: |
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| drydell wrote: |
| Died By Bear wrote: |
| I hate breeders w/kids on air flights. 'Selfish' isn't even enough to describe them. They suck more than overweight people that won't pay for two seats. |
Can you elaborate?.. How about buses or trains? Are they also selfish?.. Should parents and their kids stay at home in case they somehow inconvenience your very important life and hurt your sensitive ears?.. It's lucky you were never a child who cried .. |
Let's balance the right of children's freedom to travel against DbB's burden of possibly having to wear headphones or earplugs . . . |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:17 am Post subject: Re: Is being single selfish? |
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| catman wrote: |
| I just got told off by my sister for being single. Well to be more precise she called me selfish because I said that I have no plans on getting married and having kids. In case you are wondering she is married with a couple of kids herself. I think she sees me with having few responsibilities and greater freedom than she has and doesn't believe it to be fair. |
I re-read the OP, and notice how the judgment flows both ways here. Catman certainly has fewer responsibilities and greater freedom, but he is missing out on the benefits children offer, and he does not factor those into his sister's perspective.
I do not see how catman is being selfish, though. If he has not fathered a child, then there is no responsibility to take care of a child. It might be more tricky if there have been abortions, although not to my analysis (still not selfish), and such an inquiry would go well beyond the limits privacy should afford catman. |
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