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hogwonguy1979
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Location: the racoon den
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 Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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Korean Baseball made Keith Olbermanns "Worst Person in the Sports world twice this week, this one and a few days ago this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXKqQb3w094
guess somebody forgot to tell them the corect sign |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
Drunk fans running onto the field isn't uncommon in the U.S. At one Yankees game I recall, it became a contest as every inning another fan would try to reach second base before being tackled.
And all were arrested.
But no one's attacking players or umps. There's more chance of a player or coach attacking a fan who's crossed the line. |
Except this simply isn't true, evidenced by the first article I posted (where a coach was attacked, as well as this one (http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=90697) detailing an attack on an umpire (both MLB). |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2014 1:45 am Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
Drunk fans running onto the field isn't uncommon in the U.S. At one Yankees game I recall, it became a contest as every inning another fan would try to reach second base before being tackled.
And all were arrested.
But no one's attacking players or umps. There's more chance of a player or coach attacking a fan who's crossed the line. |
Except this simply isn't true, evidenced by the first article I posted (where a coach was attacked, as well as this one (http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=90697) detailing an attack on an umpire (both MLB). |
I'd forgotten about that.
And fans do attack other fans. Drunks are going to fight. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2014 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
| dairyairy wrote: |
http://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=2988665&cloc=joongangdaily|home|online
| Quote: |
Dark days for KBO men in black
Stretch of bad calls culminates in assault on umpire in Gwangju
A headlock in the middle of a game by a drunken fan, abusive words all over the Internet and children who won’t tell their friends their father is an umpire.
It’s going to be a long season for the Korea Baseball Organization’s men in black.
In the top of the seventh inning in Wednesday’s game between the Kia Tigers and SK Wyverns at Gwangju-Kia Champions Field, a drunken fan hopped the fence on the right-field line and got first-base umpire Park Keun-young in a headlock.
Wyverns first-base coach Baek Jae-ho and some security guards separated the two and pulled the perpetrator off the field.
“He looked like he was mad at some calls the umpires made in the game,” said a Tigers spokesman.
The incident occurred after Cho Dong-hwa - with the bases loaded and Kia leading 6-3 - hit a ground ball to second with one out that looked like it might be a double play to end the inning. Park called Cho safe on the play, which was so close even the video replay was inconclusive.
As Tigers manager Sun Dong-yeol came out from the dugout to complain, the hometown fans had expressions on their faces that said, “God, another wrong call?”
It was an ugly end to a bad week for umpires, who made so many wrong decisions in several games that there have been calls from players, analysts and fans to expand the use of instant replay, which is currently limited to disputed home runs.
Another wrong call was made at Champions Field on Tuesday, when Cho of the Wyverns attempted to steal second in the top of the second inning. Second-base umpire Na Gwang-nam called him safe, but a replay clearly showed he was out. The Wyverns went on to score six runs in that inning and wallop the Tigers, 18-5.
Na was replaced with Park Keun-young, who was jumped by the drunken man next day.
The KBO said after the game that Na had been replaced because he showed symptoms of food poisoning, but speculation was that his bad call had something to do with it. Na has been hospitalized since Wednesday, the KBO said.
But it looks like Na isn’t only suffering from food poisoning. “I think he [Na] was traumatized after making the call and seeing tons of abusive messages on the Internet,” said one of his colleagues. “He has been an umpire for about 20 years, and I think he is having the toughest time in his career. I feel very sorry for him and also am afraid of making a mistake like he did.”
The colleague said the replacement was requested by Na himself. “I think he felt huge pressure that he might make another mistake in that game,” he said. “Because he was the crew chief, he decided to work the game even though he wasn’t in good shape physically.”
Most families of baseball players are proud that their son or father plays one of the country’s most popular professional sports, but it is a whole different story for the families of umpires.
“Most of us tell our children not to tell their friends their father is a baseball umpire because we worry about our children being ostracized by friends,” said one umpire, who - naturally - requested anonymity. “If the child is very young, it may not be a big problem, but for those umpires with teenagers, they always worry about them feeling hurt after they read abusive messages about their father. We just advise our children to respond that their father is a worker at a conglomerate when they were asked his occupation.”
Since umpires are under huge pressure and teams and fans never stop complaining, the KBO, which has been skeptical about any expansion of video reviews, is considering making an adjustment.
KBO spokesman Jung Keum-jo, recently said the league is discussing wider use of video reviews next season.
“We are considering many options to develop a good system, and monitoring how Major League Baseball operates its system will be part of the process.”
BY kwon sang-soo [[email protected]]
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More shifting of responsibility and victim blaming. Three quarters of this article is about how the umps have been bad this week, implying the drunken idiot was justified. I personally think it's an isolated incident and that there are idiots everywhere. But as with other recent events, it's not the initial issue that is cultural, it's the response to it. Besides the shifting of blame, we can also see the victim mentality on display here. If you don't get what you want it's because you were screwed over. Time and again. |
BlackCat, I don't see how you can possibly get anything like what you said from that article. No one is blaming the umpire or justifying the attack because some umpires made some bad calls. What victim mentality is taking place? This seems like a pretty standard write-up covering an incident, a series of bad calls, and demands for increased instant replay. If anything the article seems to be sympathizing with the umpires and the fact that their job is thankless.
Are you seriously suggesting that there is something culturally Korean about fans who felt they were screwed over by the umps/refs and being angry about it? That's every sports fan ever. Fans complaining about umps and refs has happened since the first time a ref ever stepped onto a field. It will go on until the end of time. |
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andrewchon
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Location: Back in Oz. Living in ISIS Aust.
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2014 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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What Korea needs to do is to copy the overseas style of pitch-invasion.
Streakers!
http://youtu.be/K6Rhfv4e0O4
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| And there are still some people who claim baseball is boring! C'mon! |
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Mr. BlackCat
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
| dairyairy wrote: |
http://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=2988665&cloc=joongangdaily|home|online
| Quote: |
Dark days for KBO men in black
Stretch of bad calls culminates in assault on umpire in Gwangju
A headlock in the middle of a game by a drunken fan, abusive words all over the Internet and children who won’t tell their friends their father is an umpire.
It’s going to be a long season for the Korea Baseball Organization’s men in black.
In the top of the seventh inning in Wednesday’s game between the Kia Tigers and SK Wyverns at Gwangju-Kia Champions Field, a drunken fan hopped the fence on the right-field line and got first-base umpire Park Keun-young in a headlock.
Wyverns first-base coach Baek Jae-ho and some security guards separated the two and pulled the perpetrator off the field.
“He looked like he was mad at some calls the umpires made in the game,” said a Tigers spokesman.
The incident occurred after Cho Dong-hwa - with the bases loaded and Kia leading 6-3 - hit a ground ball to second with one out that looked like it might be a double play to end the inning. Park called Cho safe on the play, which was so close even the video replay was inconclusive.
As Tigers manager Sun Dong-yeol came out from the dugout to complain, the hometown fans had expressions on their faces that said, “God, another wrong call?”
It was an ugly end to a bad week for umpires, who made so many wrong decisions in several games that there have been calls from players, analysts and fans to expand the use of instant replay, which is currently limited to disputed home runs.
Another wrong call was made at Champions Field on Tuesday, when Cho of the Wyverns attempted to steal second in the top of the second inning. Second-base umpire Na Gwang-nam called him safe, but a replay clearly showed he was out. The Wyverns went on to score six runs in that inning and wallop the Tigers, 18-5.
Na was replaced with Park Keun-young, who was jumped by the drunken man next day.
The KBO said after the game that Na had been replaced because he showed symptoms of food poisoning, but speculation was that his bad call had something to do with it. Na has been hospitalized since Wednesday, the KBO said.
But it looks like Na isn’t only suffering from food poisoning. “I think he [Na] was traumatized after making the call and seeing tons of abusive messages on the Internet,” said one of his colleagues. “He has been an umpire for about 20 years, and I think he is having the toughest time in his career. I feel very sorry for him and also am afraid of making a mistake like he did.”
The colleague said the replacement was requested by Na himself. “I think he felt huge pressure that he might make another mistake in that game,” he said. “Because he was the crew chief, he decided to work the game even though he wasn’t in good shape physically.”
Most families of baseball players are proud that their son or father plays one of the country’s most popular professional sports, but it is a whole different story for the families of umpires.
“Most of us tell our children not to tell their friends their father is a baseball umpire because we worry about our children being ostracized by friends,” said one umpire, who - naturally - requested anonymity. “If the child is very young, it may not be a big problem, but for those umpires with teenagers, they always worry about them feeling hurt after they read abusive messages about their father. We just advise our children to respond that their father is a worker at a conglomerate when they were asked his occupation.”
Since umpires are under huge pressure and teams and fans never stop complaining, the KBO, which has been skeptical about any expansion of video reviews, is considering making an adjustment.
KBO spokesman Jung Keum-jo, recently said the league is discussing wider use of video reviews next season.
“We are considering many options to develop a good system, and monitoring how Major League Baseball operates its system will be part of the process.”
BY kwon sang-soo [[email protected]]
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More shifting of responsibility and victim blaming. Three quarters of this article is about how the umps have been bad this week, implying the drunken idiot was justified. I personally think it's an isolated incident and that there are idiots everywhere. But as with other recent events, it's not the initial issue that is cultural, it's the response to it. Besides the shifting of blame, we can also see the victim mentality on display here. If you don't get what you want it's because you were screwed over. Time and again. |
BlackCat, I don't see how you can possibly get anything like what you said from that article. No one is blaming the umpire or justifying the attack because some umpires made some bad calls. What victim mentality is taking place? This seems like a pretty standard write-up covering an incident, a series of bad calls, and demands for increased instant replay. If anything the article seems to be sympathizing with the umpires and the fact that their job is thankless.
Are you seriously suggesting that there is something culturally Korean about fans who felt they were screwed over by the umps/refs and being angry about it? That's every sports fan ever. Fans complaining about umps and refs has happened since the first time a ref ever stepped onto a field. It will go on until the end of time. |
The article is 18 paragraphs long. Only 7 deal with the incident at hand. The other 11 are explanations for why the fan was so angry (and thus perhaps justified?). It even gets into conspiracy theories with fake illnesses and whatnot.
A professional journalist wouldn't write:
"It was an ugly end to a bad week for umpires, who made so many wrong decisions in several games..." as one example.
Professional sport journalists know how to stay objective and only report on how the players/coaches felt about certain calls. Even in extremely obvious situations, professional writers would say, "Upon replay, it appeared that the runner had touched the base just before the tag was made," or something equally as diplomatic. A professional writer doesn't just say, "The ump was wrong!" It's immature and unprofessional.
It's even more immature and unprofessional when the article should be about the fan attacking the ump, NOT the fact that the ump supposedly made the "wrong call" because nothing justifies a fan attacking a game official. Spending 7 paragraphs explaining the attack, and then 11 on why the fan was so angry is a clear sign of trying to shift responsibility and justify his actions. It's like reading an article about sexual assault and having 7 paragraphs explain the assault and 11 describing what the woman was wearing and that she was out late at night alone (obviously this isn't as bad, I'm just using it as an example of victim blaming). What does one have to do with the other?
A professional writer would say the fan was upset with a call. Not that the call was wrong. And this, to me, is a reflection of what I see every day in this society. Blame shifting and a victim mentality. Everything you do wrong is someone else's fault. Yes, that is part of Korean culture. |
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andrewchon
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Location: Back in Oz. Living in ISIS Aust.
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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More Streakers are the answer!
http://youtu.be/iSQpyQhUCPk
I agree: Koreans ought to catch up with the times and blame Obama instead. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 1:21 am Post subject: |
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| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
The article is 18 paragraphs long. Only 7 deal with the incident at hand. The other 11 are explanations for why the fan was so angry (and thus perhaps justified?). It even gets into conspiracy theories with fake illnesses and whatnot.
A professional journalist wouldn't write:
"It was an ugly end to a bad week for umpires, who made so many wrong decisions in several games..." as one example.
Professional sport journalists know how to stay objective and only report on how the players/coaches felt about certain calls. Even in extremely obvious situations, professional writers would say, "Upon replay, it appeared that the runner had touched the base just before the tag was made," or something equally as diplomatic. A professional writer doesn't just say, "The ump was wrong!" It's immature and unprofessional.
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Well one thing to bear in mind is that this article may have been translated or written by someone with English as their second language.
Also, the media back home WILL label a call a "blown call" if it is obviously so- Case in point the Armando Galaragga-Jim Joyce 28 out perfect game. Announcers and play by play announcers will also freely label a call a botched one- Take for example the Infield Fly call in the Braves-Phillies playoff game.
| Quote: |
| It's even more immature and unprofessional when the article should be about the fan attacking the ump, NOT the fact that the ump supposedly made the "wrong call" because nothing justifies a fan attacking a game official. Spending 7 paragraphs explaining the attack, and then 11 on why the fan was so angry is a clear sign of trying to shift responsibility and justify his actions |
BlackCat, the next 11 attacks do not do what you say they do. A couple talk about other prior calls that week, then the next few focus on the ump not working the next game and speculation over that, then it spends a couple more talking about the hardships the umpires face. The author seems to be trying to elicit a sympathetic response towards umpires by describing the hardships their children face in school.
BlackCat, read the article again because it in no way, shape, or form does what you claim it does.
| Quote: |
| And this, to me, is a reflection of what I see every day in this society. Blame shifting and a victim mentality. Everything you do wrong is someone else's fault. Yes, that is part of Korean culture. |
So Koreans don't bow down and beg for forgiveness or do things like resign to accept responsibility or apologize for their own bad conduct and offer to make amends?
And is there any paragraph or sentence where the article directly places the blame for the incident on the umpire? I don't see one.
And what about the Korea Times article that says this- "His target was the first base umpire, who apparently didn’t know how to satisfy every single one of the baseball fans in the stadium, including those who were drunk". Very clearly and snarkily placing the blame on the fan. How is your claim about the other article an example of Korean culture, but this is not? This is the problem with the culture argument- You hold up one piece of evidence as an example, but another one that doesn't follow your model is ignored. |
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Mr. BlackCat
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| BlackCat, read the article again because it in no way, shape, or form does what you claim it does. |
Why don't you just paste this on all your responses? Pretty much sums up everything you say here.
"Your perception is completely false. Mine is the only correct interpretation, even though I'm totally ignoring the facts and had a preconceived conclusion before even being aware of this topic."
We've already established that you're a blind nationalist who will never admit anything negative about this great land. Go back to defending the man who killed hundreds of innocent children because he is Korean and can do no wrong. Your opinions (and they are opinions despite you always insisting they are facts) are worthless after your love affair with the Sewol captain.
Stop responding to me. No one cares what you think now. Well, more so now than before, anyway. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
We've already established that you're a blind nationalist who will never admit anything negative about this great land. Go back to defending the man who killed hundreds of innocent children because he is Korean and can do no wrong. Your opinions (and they are opinions despite you always insisting they are facts) are worthless after your love affair with the Sewol captain.
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BlackCat, you need to see things for what they are, not based on what you feel.
I never DEFENDED the captain. I illustrated how complex the decision was and that it was premature to condemn him for a decision, given the circumstances. This did not mean I defended his other decisions. Why is that concept so hard for you to grasp? Are you that lacking in intelligence that you can't make that distinction? Even mayorgc finally got around to getting to where I was coming from in a way.
I called for the guy to face the firing squad for his cowardly decision. That doesn't mean I love him or agree with him. There are certain Nazi war criminals who I felt got a bad rap on a couple of charges (the Donitz example), that doesn't mean I have a love affair with them or the Nazis. It's called being able to dispassionately and rationally analyze things. That's what people who study these things are supposed to do. That's what college-educated adults are supposed to be able to do- Investigate and argue things without basing it on their emotions and personal beliefs.
Anyways, the article in no, way, shape, or form does what you say it does. It is blindingly obvious.
If they are trashing the umpires, what is the purpose of these two paragraphs?
"Most families of baseball players are proud that their son or father plays one of the country’s most popular professional sports, but it is a whole different story for the families of umpires.
“Most of us tell our children not to tell their friends their father is a baseball umpire because we worry about our children being ostracized by friends,” said one umpire, who - naturally - requested anonymity. “If the child is very young, it may not be a big problem, but for those umpires with teenagers, they always worry about them feeling hurt after they read abusive messages about their father. We just advise our children to respond that their father is a worker at a conglomerate when they were asked his occupation.”
Boy, nothing says "victim blaming" like that. |
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Mr. BlackCat
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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Dude, just a couple of months ago you used a story about a bunch of soccer hooligans in England from like 10 years ago to prove that all foreigners are barbarians and that Koreans are civilized and much better. People called you out on that nonsense but, as always, you stuck by your guns that such a thing would never happen in Korea.
Well here we are.
Again, I'm not saying this is unique to Korea or that this isolated incident somehow reflects on the whole country. YOU'RE the one who used an isolated incident in another country to try to prove that Korea was better in the past.
Now, we all know you're going to deny it just like you're now denying defending the captain of the Sewol. As I've said previously, we used to spar on certain things but you've lost all respect I once had for you in the last few weeks. I was willing to buy that you were just being contrarian, but to do so with the lives of children is pretty twisted. To then keep up your facade that you somehow care about Korea and Koreans more than everyone else after disrespecting the memory of those children is even more offensive. I also was willing to believe you did pilot flights before, but only thought to mention it after the Asiana crash. But now you're also an expert on marine travel? I mean come on. Like I've said, you've really shown your true colours recently. People can, and have, read what you've written in all those threads and judge for themselves.
In any event, I can have my opinion on the article and you can have yours. What you can't do is say that your opinion is a fact and that I'm objectively wrong. You do this a lot, and it's annoying and shows your true narcissistic personality. Your opinion is just that, an opinion. And you know what they say about everyone having one. So calm down there. I think questioning my intelligence is your last resort into trying to cover up the fact that you have no actual argument here. As usual your Bat Phone just went off when someone said something not sparkling about Korea.
Let's just sum up every SR post ever made here.
Foreigner = BAD
Korean = GOOD
Done. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 6:52 am Post subject: |
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BlackCat, how can I explain things to you when you aren't even getting what I said right?
I never defended the captain. I was raising the issue of one part of the events. Just because I say, argue the nuances of one decision George W. Bush makes, doesn't mean I am defending the guy and his entire person and presidency and that I'm a card-carrying Republican. Same with the ferry tragedy.
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| I also was willing to believe you did pilot flights before, but only thought to mention it after the Asiana crash. |
BlackCat, I have repeatedly stated that my flight experience came from my parents being private pilots and me flying WITH them pretty much every weekend of my life until I was a teenager. I never claimed to be a pilot.
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| Dude, just a couple of months ago you used a story about a bunch of soccer hooligans in England from like 10 years ago to prove that all foreigners are barbarians and that Koreans are civilized and much better. |
Well fair point, but I think there is a world of difference between a single fan running onto the stage and a tragedy that results in a bunch of people dead. I mean you still have lines of security separating sections of fans. That's pretty bad.
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| As usual your Bat Phone just went off when someone said something not sparkling about Korea |
No, my bat phone went off on a complete misinterpretation of the article. This is like one of those GRE questions on reading comprehension and there's just nothing there to suggest that the writer is blaming umpires for this incident.
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| we used to spar on certain things but you've lost all respect I once had for you in the last few weeks. |
Well you can not respect me when it comes to talking about Korea, but I think you and I still have some decent things to offer when we aren't talking about Korea, so I hope that you will continue to post and give me a fair chance on non-Korea threads. As for Korea ones, just do what some do and regard me as an idiot and scroll past. I may reply and you can ignore me or not. |
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