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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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 Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 12:12 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
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| SR is now saying he never claimed to be a pilot in much the same way he backtracked from the racism claim once people pointed out he's claimed to be ethnically Korean in the past. |
BlackCat, there's no backtracking. I never claimed to be a pilot. Find the post where I said that. I loved how me flying with my family in their light plane has at some point turned into my being a licensed pilot flying around in the family corporate jet.
And yes, I did slip up and claim "racism" (and heck, who knows, they might have thought I was Chinese) when I should have said "xenophobia". You got me. Congratulations. Mixing up racism and xenophobia makes me the biggest liar on the plane and worse than Hitler.
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If you say that you wouldn't expect the captain to be sailing the ship the entire time on a 36 hour trip, I don't think you're defending his actions. But if you repeatedly, over multiple threads, defend his decisions to order the children to stay in their rooms while he got himself off the ship by lying to rescue boats, and then lying about what happened while he dried out his money on his hospital bed? Yeah, I think it's safe to say you're defending the indefensible and you should be ashamed of yourself. But shame isn't part of a narcissist's vocabulary.
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ARGGHHHH Why can't you comprehend this???? Saying "ordering people on deck of a listing ship within the first four minutes of an incident, while stabilization procedures, carries risks as well and is not such a clear cut decision" is NOT at all analogous to what you wrote. Multiple times I said that if the captain had done that, and the ship had stabilized but 20 people slipped off and drowned, people would call for his head. I also said that if that happened he shouldn't be condemned for that choice as well as this is a situation with INCOMPLETE INFORMATION and no way to predict the outcome with 100% success. I condemned his negligence beforehand. I condemned his cowardly evacuation and even raised the question of a firing squad.
If you can't grasp the nuance involved in what I raised then I don't know what to say.
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| And if you agree with George W Bush about the UN being ineffectual then maybe you don't support all his decisions. But if you support his lying to Congress about WMDs in order to start a war in Iraq for oil profits while defunding the military and bankrupting the country, yes I think it's safe to say you support him. |
I think the better analogy might be supporting Bush on The Surge while still thinking the invasion was wrong and believing that the US should exit as swiftly as possible, in contradiction to Bush's policies. Sadly, it seems when it comes to the issues, whether its the Sewol issue or the Iraq War, some people can't discuss things without trying to vilify you in some way.
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| he makes grand claims of expertise and experience for whatever the particular situation calls for. He will insist that his interpretation of a subjective article or event is factually, scientifically accurate while you are incredibly biased. |
What grand claims? I mocked my own nautical experience as being confined to rowboats and yachting. As for flying, the fact is that I have had a tremendous amount of experience dealing with planes, having spent my childhood constantly around them and other pilots.
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| To be consistently called out and proven as ethnically biased |
As opposed to the pillars of ethnic objectivity that some others are?
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The small devil icon was supposed to convey that I was pushing your button, but you didn't get it.
So as a pilot, would you agree that the mystery of flight 370 is peculiar in nature, or from a more technical standpoint, what exactly could the Malaysian government done better? |
I tried to hedge against the joke possibility by talking about BlackCat. But I wasn't sure. All in good fun though!
Well as a pilot, clearly we have to first acknowledge that Malaysian culture was clearly to blame here. The fact that the passengers didn't rise up and rebel ala United 93 is clearly a result of them being largely Chinese and having Confucian traditions. If it turns out that the pilot had a mechanical problem and tried to ditch in the sea, he should have instead tried to find the nearest airport. If the plane crashed as he tried to find the nearest airport, clearly he should have ditched into the sea. Also, at the first hint of turbulence or a warning light he should have had everyone wearing oxygen masks and in the crash position. Regardless, it was culture- him being a Malaysian man, that caused this.
Sounds like the most logical explanation to me. |
What a BS argument. It was never about just the first four minutes--that's some bogus excuse you tried to cook up with your mystical, scientific timeline, your very own wayback machine.
It's about accepted practice for that situation--prepare to evacuate.
Yet, and yet, and yet again, you still insist you were right to defend the captain and crew, even now. All those ifs you're trying to hide behind don't amount to a hill of beans. "I raised the question"--"Very good commissar. That will satisfy the crowd while we make our getaway."
Keeper of the timeline, pal to pilots, fashion maven, soda sommelier--whatever role you take on you still end up talking through the orifice most of us sit on. |
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Unposter
Joined: 04 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 1:23 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, Nashville's had a big sign out and everything. And, they weren't the only establishment in Itaewon that had one but it is the one I remember the most clearly. I don't remember when this was, definitely before its expansion; it was just downstairs.
On the other hand, I never saw it particularly enforced. I would see Koreans who were accompanied by Westerners there all the time.
According to the Korea Times, there are no laws against discrimination on the books in Korea. |
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Mr. BlackCat
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 2:04 am Post subject: |
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I did admit that I wasn't sure if SR actually claimed to be a pilot, but I did know he suddenly claimed to have incredible expertise in the field once people started questioning his blind defence of the pilots after the Asiana crash last year.
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I probably have more time flying in an airplane than 20 posters combined. And likely more time in the right-hand seat of one than every poster on this board combined.
My late grandfather, uncle, dad, and mom were or are all licensed pilots. |
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=228879&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=120
It's simply amazing that a family that was forced to live in the ghetto while simultaneously living on a large farm in an upper middle class all white county had the time for all of its members to become licensed pilots. What an incredible life SR has lived.
And you know, I never questioned it. I took him at his word. I took him at his word that he grew up on the streets in the ghetto/on a lovely farm harassed by the all white community. I tried to argue his points rather than his increasingly convenient life experiences. I even came to his defence when others piled on him. I said several times that we could have a beer and I'm sure he's a nice guy.
Then I read all his defences of the Sewol captain. I read him make up even larger stories of being raised on the sea (which must have been located between the ghetto and that luscious farm with a close by airport). I read all his posts defending the indefensible because the perpetrator happened to be Korean. I read him accusing others of being racists for echoing what Koreans themselves were saying about this man. And I didn't say anything there out of some small respect for the victims.
But now I see the cracks now that more and more people are calling him on his BS. I do feel bad because he's just some guy and I don't want to humiliate or bully him. I don't hate SR, I just want him to admit, even just to himself, that what he's doing is just as bad as the people he pretends to preach against. And if he can admit that to himself, he could stop posting here. He could change his attitude or he could at least just let other people talk about things without trying to force his righteousness onto them.
SR will continue to deny what he said. He will misquote me and others, jumble our words together to create strawman after strawman. He will derail any thread that he deems not worthy. He will continue to call other people racist while seeing the world only as KOREAN/NON-KOREAN.
So I did the derailing this time. Ignoring him hasn't worked in the past. He goes into overdrive and spams threads to the point of oblivion. I've seen 15 page threads here with fully 3/4 being SR posts. So now I think it's time for all of us to call him on the BS. Every single post he makes we should shame him.
Not really, though. But that's my plan here on this thread. Because yeah, I do have some anger towards him. Someone who defends another man who is responsible for the deaths of so many children simply due to his race is deserving of a little bit of anger. |
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guavashake
Joined: 09 Nov 2013
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 4:00 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
I probably have more time flying in an airplane than 20 posters combined.
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Claiming to be an aviation expert based on being an airplane passenger is similar to claiming to be a diving expert based on sitting in a hot tub watching Jacque Cousteau documentaries. |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 4:12 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
It's really easy to cry racism. |
Well, you'd know about that, wouldn't you?
Anyway, that's why I wrote "prejudice/racism" as we don't know if it's specifically about race, but considering the "exclusive/purity" views on race here, it's likely a factor in part at least. Of course it's not ALWAYS the case.
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But as I said, its not always the case.I'd generally say, that if its a common hof/bar/dance club, then that's racism. If it's some random "business room" place or one of those expensive table night clubs, its far more likely that miscommunication over pricing and style is to blame.
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Nope, not really. I hate to disagree with an "expert" on the matter, but even if you wear a suit and speak good Korean, there's still a decent chance they won't let foreigners into many of those places without Koreans with you. Some of those places are quite "exclusive" (in that they exclude non-Koreans).
Although I remember we got denied by some Kyopo staff once too, that was pretty interesting. The irony was we were super polite to them but they had a hate-on anyway. They couldn't claim "Koreans only" but made up some messed up excuse, and the intent was clear. As we were leaving, I told our group "We can't come in, these guys are too cool." and they tried to give us the stare down from beneath their sideways hats and XXXL T-shirt skirts. It was the lamest, emptiest hip hop club you've ever seen so they actually did us a favor. I'd bet they'd have let you in though, SR.
The business rooms and Korean style night clubs are a mixed bag, but are all about having singles meet each other and setting guys up with girls, often "rented" girls. If they aren't letting foreigners in there it's at least partly because the guys don't want the girls mixing with foreigners. Fact.
About pricing, If they need you to buy a bottle, they WILL make sure you understand that.
But those places are pretty shady ripoffs regardless. They commonly do things like add stuff to the bill, or double the bill after they've told you a quote. They are shady and it's not all about miscommunication as I've been there both with Koreans and with foreigners who spoke near perfect Korean. Almost every time we didn't bring Koreans and still managed to get in, the staff would try to shaft us somehow.
But as much as those places tend to suck anyway, it's still maddening when they tell you "Koreans only". It's not just the policy itself but the mentality and lack of shame that sometimes goes along with it. I remember being denied a few times where I'd look around in disgust, and the Koreans around me seemed to have NO idea why that kind of policy was demeaning or wrong. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| It's simply amazing that a family that was forced to live in the ghetto while simultaneously living on a large farm in an upper middle class all white county had the time for all of its members to become licensed pilots. What an incredible life SR has lived. |
You do realize that it's possible to move out of your parents farm just on the outskirts of town (within the public school district) and move into a crappy area when you're 18 and living out of your parents house, right?
Why is it so hard to believe that someone can live in a rural area one part of their life and in a crummy neighborhood another part?
BlackCat, maybe instead of accusing me of fabricating things, you should try and keep things clear in your head. I'm not fabricating things. You're getting them mixed up in your head. That's why it's not making sense- You aren't remembering things clearly.
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| Someone who defends another man who is responsible for the deaths of so many children simply due to his race is deserving of a little bit of anger. |
Can you quit saying that damnit and understand that I never defended the person. Saying that one decision he made might not have been as clear cut as people are making it out to be does not constitute defending him. HOW IN THE WORLD CAN YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THAT?
Saying, Chairman Mao may have made the occasional good decision during his life doesn't mean you are "defending him" or excuse his crimes.
Let me ask you BlackCat- Do you think Stalin was right to fight Hitler? Well, if you say "yes" then that means you are defending Stalin and excusing him from blame. So which is it? Is he wrong to fight Hitler or was he right and therefore you are "defending him" and excusing his crimes?
If BlackCat says "yes, Stalin was right to fight Hitler" then BlackCat supports all of Stalin's executions, purges and gulags.
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| I read him make up even larger stories of being raised on the sea |
Black Cat, how is going rowboat occasionally and dinking around on your Uncle's yacht, growing up on the sea? You do realize that for people who grow up in Michigan, that having a relative who's yacht you dink around on 2 weekends a year is not some sort of freak occurrence, right?
To say nothing of the fact that I MOCKED SUCH EXPERIENCE AS QUALIFYING ME.
Dude, can you at least try to remember things accurately and not just make up complete nonsense about me? Can you at least be bothered to use the quote function?
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| Claiming to be an aviation expert based on being an airplane passenger is similar to claiming to be a diving expert based on sitting in a hot tub watching Jacque Cousteau documentaries. |
It's a bit different when your dad rebuilds his airplane in your garage, your grandfather, father, and mother all were licensed pilots, your grandmother did aerial photography, and every weekend that weather permitted until you were 14 you went flying with your family and their flying buddies and attended EAA meetings and met dozens of other pilots. It's a bit different when a lot of times your dad would put you in the copilots seat and have you navigate and walk you through procedures. It's a bit different when you get to fly into what becomes for one week, the busiest airport in the world- Wittman Regional and camp under the wing of your family's plane at the biggest airshow in America. Experiences like having one of your dad's flying buddies making you ride copilot as a 10 year old kid and expecting you to learn the non-radio contact approach procedures for flying into Wittman. There's something to be said for spending countless hours as a kid at coney islands and bars listening to your parents and their flying buddies talk about aircraft stuff nonstop.
Funny how everyone here claims to be an expert on teaching and Korea after living and doing it for two years, but mocks me for having aviation knowledge amounting to 14 years continuous experience. |
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Died By Bear
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 8:29 am Post subject: |
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SteelHeart Wrote:
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Well as a pilot, clearly we have to first acknowledge that Malaysian culture was clearly to blame here. The fact that the passengers didn't rise up and rebel ala United 93 is clearly a result of them being largely Chinese and having Confucian traditions. If it turns out that the pilot had a mechanical problem and tried to ditch in the sea, he should have instead tried to find the nearest airport. If the plane crashed as he tried to find the nearest airport, clearly he should have ditched into the sea. Also, at the first hint of turbulence or a warning light he should have had everyone wearing oxygen masks and in the crash position. Regardless, it was culture- him being a Malaysian man, that caused this.
Sounds like the most logical explanation to me. I've been flying private and commercial airplanes since I was ten years old |
He DID claim he was a pilot, see above!!!
ha GOTCHA now Steel Heart |
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wanderkind
Joined: 01 Jan 2012
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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You folks need a slush thread exclusively for all bickering with SteelRails.
This thread is about discrimination! Discrimination! Derail지마세요~! |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Died By Bear wrote: |
SteelHeart Wrote:
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Well as a pilot, clearly we have to first acknowledge that Malaysian culture was clearly to blame here. The fact that the passengers didn't rise up and rebel ala United 93 is clearly a result of them being largely Chinese and having Confucian traditions. If it turns out that the pilot had a mechanical problem and tried to ditch in the sea, he should have instead tried to find the nearest airport. If the plane crashed as he tried to find the nearest airport, clearly he should have ditched into the sea. Also, at the first hint of turbulence or a warning light he should have had everyone wearing oxygen masks and in the crash position. Regardless, it was culture- him being a Malaysian man, that caused this.
Sounds like the most logical explanation to me. I've been flying private and commercial airplanes since I was ten years old |
He DID claim he was a pilot, see above!!!
ha GOTCHA now Steel Heart |
He was being sarcastic, but given the length of his post(s), I can understand how you would skim through and miss that. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| wanderkind wrote: |
You folks need a slush thread exclusively for all bickering with SteelRails.
This thread is about discrimination! Discrimination! Derail지마세요~! |
We're trying to prevent the train from derailing again (and again and again). |
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Died By Bear
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2014 1:16 am Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
| Died By Bear wrote: |
SteelHeart Wrote:
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Well as a pilot, clearly we have to first acknowledge that Malaysian culture was clearly to blame here. The fact that the passengers didn't rise up and rebel ala United 93 is clearly a result of them being largely Chinese and having Confucian traditions. If it turns out that the pilot had a mechanical problem and tried to ditch in the sea, he should have instead tried to find the nearest airport. If the plane crashed as he tried to find the nearest airport, clearly he should have ditched into the sea. Also, at the first hint of turbulence or a warning light he should have had everyone wearing oxygen masks and in the crash position. Regardless, it was culture- him being a Malaysian man, that caused this.
Sounds like the most logical explanation to me. I've been flying private and commercial airplanes since I was ten years old |
He DID claim he was a pilot, see above!!!
ha GOTCHA now Steel Heart |
He was being sarcastic, but given the length of his post(s), I can understand how you would skim through and miss that. |
I know, I added the last sentence to mess with him.  |
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Smithington
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2014 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| I fully support Koreans drinking in their own bars. Keeps them out of the ones I frequent. |
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cam83
Joined: 27 Jan 2013
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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