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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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 Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| wishfullthinkng wrote: |
| who are you or anyone else to say who should or shouldn't be in college? i'm sorry, but everyone should have a chance for education whether your elitist mind thinks that they "deserve to be there" or not. |
No. Everyone does get the chance (which is good). Some have to pay part of the cost themselves. You think that's bad? (Poor people get 100% of their tuition paid (plus more for "living expenses").) The U.S. government is quite generous. Grants and loans (at least loans, depending on who you are) are available to everyone. |
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Stain
Joined: 08 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 7:14 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| wishfullthinkng wrote: |
| who are you or anyone else to say who should or shouldn't be in college? i'm sorry, but everyone should have a chance for education whether your elitist mind thinks that they "deserve to be there" or not. |
No. Everyone does get the chance (which is good). Some have to pay part of the cost themselves. You think that's bad? (Poor people get 100% of their tuition paid (plus more for "living expenses").) The U.S. government is quite generous. Grants and loans (at least loans, depending on who you are) are available to everyone. |
Yes, but a bachelor's degree is now what a high school diploma was before. Therefore, the US government feels it is necessary to fork over for undergraduate school because it is seen as an extention of the public school system. |
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Axiom
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| wishfullthinkng wrote: |
| who are you or anyone else to say who should or shouldn't be in college? i'm sorry, but everyone should have a chance for education whether your elitist mind thinks that they "deserve to be there" or not. |
No. Everyone does get the chance (which is good). Some have to pay part of the cost themselves. You think that's bad? (Poor people get 100% of their tuition paid (plus more for "living expenses").) The U.S. government is quite generous. Grants and loans (at least loans, depending on who you are) are available to everyone. |
There is no such thing as free education or even partly-free education.
Someone ultimately pays for it. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| That's what I'm saying. And not everyone is meant to go college; it's not for everyone. (Not everyone needs a degree.) |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Stain wrote: |
| a bachelor's degree is now what a high school diploma was before. |
Not really. Only 30% of the population has one. |
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bmaw01
Joined: 13 May 2013
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| wishfullthinkng wrote: |
| who are you or anyone else to say who should or shouldn't be in college? i'm sorry, but everyone should have a chance for education whether your elitist mind thinks that they "deserve to be there" or not. |
No. Everyone does get the chance (which is good). Some have to pay part of the cost themselves. You think that's bad? (Poor people get 100% of their tuition paid (plus more for "living expenses").) The U.S. government is quite generous. Grants and loans (at least loans, depending on who you are) are available to everyone. |
You must be smoking crack. The student loan system was taken over by the US government and they are making money from college grads. The government should not be making money off college students!
http://www.westhartfordnews.com/articles/2014/02/02/news/doc52ee9811ca21e428330246.txt
Yes, loans are available to everyone and this is the problem. The average college graduate owes $26k in student loan debt. Overall student loan debt sits at $1 trillion and is growing. Other students owe much more and they will probably be in debt for life. This is going to be a huge issue for the American economy. When people owe student loan debt they are less likely to purchase homes, cars, etc. |
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wishfullthinkng
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| wishfullthinkng wrote: |
| who are you or anyone else to say who should or shouldn't be in college? i'm sorry, but everyone should have a chance for education whether your elitist mind thinks that they "deserve to be there" or not. |
No. Everyone does get the chance (which is good). Some have to pay part of the cost themselves. You think that's bad? (Poor people get 100% of their tuition paid (plus more for "living expenses").) The U.S. government is quite generous. Grants and loans (at least loans, depending on who you are) are available to everyone. |
oh really? you think everyone gets a chance to go to higher education and that america doesn't make it hard for a large percentage of the population to go?
you live in a fantasy world full of unicorns weird rambler. what delusion. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| How is the U.S. government setting up barriers to prevent a large part of the population from going to college? It's not. State universities accept every who applies in most cases. Unlike other countries, however, not everyone who enrolls/shows a minimal amount of token effort automatically passes. Many fail out. In fact a large number do. Only about half of those who enter have graduated six years later. So many flunk out and/or drop out. Is that the government's fault? Some people are simply not smart enough or hard working enough to get through college. (Or maybe some don't like the work and quit.) The government gives tons of grants and loans meaning anyone who wants to be in college can (as long as they keep their grades up). |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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| bmaw01 wrote: |
| You must be smoking crack. The student loan system was taken over by the US government and they are making money from college grads. |
By giving interest-free/low interest loans (many of which will never be paid back, at an interest rate lower than the going market rate) to anyone who wants them, how is the government making money off of students? It's not. It's being generous. It's being helpful. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2014 1:40 am Post subject: |
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In 1991 a student could expect to pay more than half of the published tuition at public schools. Today, that stands at just 35%. While many talk about the rising costs, few mention the rising benefits of financial aid, which has helped reduce the impact of the increased prices.
Secondly, Pew Research Center found in its study "The Rising Cost of Not Going to College" that the gap between what someone earns with a college degree versus someone without one has only widened over the years.
This salary gap between a high school diploma and a college diploma used to stand at just 24%, but it now sits at more than 60%.
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/05/11/the-surprising-truth-about-the-rising-costs-of-col.aspx |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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| radcon wrote: |
| Americans don't get much for their tax dollar |
| radcon wrote: |
| Tell us what middle class Americans get for their taxes |
First of all, taxes in America for the middle and lower classes are unusually low. The wealthiest Americans shoulder most of the tax burden. (For some reason I don't think you are in much danger of that happening to you any time soon.) Overall, too, America's tax rate is a lot lower than other countries.
What do middle class Americans get for the taxes they pay? Quite a lot. Intellectual property protection, federal parks (of which there is so much land set aside to be left undeveloped) where people can go camping for free, and so much more.
Compare the air quality of New York City to the air quality of Seoul. Seoul's is much worse. New York City made a ton of improvements recently; the air there has steadily been getting better.
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| New York City's air quality has reached the cleanest levels in more than 50 years, |
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/27/new-york-air-quality_n_4004710.html
How else does the U.S. government help people? Protection from the rule of law. Business owners who don't pay their workers and do other illegal shady practices would be in deep crap in the United States. That seems to be less the case in Korea.
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| Korea is among the worst countries for workers' rights, according tothe Global Rights Index (GRI) from the world's largest labor representative body. |
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2014/05/116_157733.html
Some Koreans told me they think if the Sewol had sunk off the coast of the United States, no one would have died. A Chinese person told me the same thing, saying if a ferry sunk in China many people would die, but if a ferry sunk in the U.S., everyone would live.
The point is, the U.S. is not a bad place. It's not nearly as bad as you are making it out to be. If it really were a hellhole, why would it be a top tourist destination...
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| Tourists spend more money in the United States than any other country, while attracting the second-highest number of tourists after France.[2] The discrepancy may be explained by longer stays in the US.[2] |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_the_United_States
…and why would it be the place immigrants most want to come to?
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| The United States has always been regarded as a nation of immigrants. Recently-published figures from the United Nations support this view. More than 45 million immigrants live in the U.S., according to UN figures, more than four times as many living in any other nation in the world. |
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/29/countries-most-immigrants_n_4009750.html |
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radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| radcon wrote: |
| Americans don't get much for their tax dollar |
| radcon wrote: |
| Tell us what middle class Americans get for their taxes |
First of all, taxes in America for the middle and lower classes are unusually low. The wealthiest Americans shoulder most of the tax burden. (For some reason I don't think you are in much danger of that happening to you any time soon.) Overall, too, America's tax rate is a lot lower than other countries.
What do middle class Americans get for the taxes they pay? Quite a lot. Intellectual property protection, federal parks (of which there is so much land set aside to be left undeveloped) where people can go camping for free, and so much more.
Compare the air quality of New York City to the air quality of Seoul. Seoul's is much worse. New York City made a ton of improvements recently; the air there has steadily been getting better.
| Quote: |
| New York City's air quality has reached the cleanest levels in more than 50 years, |
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/27/new-york-air-quality_n_4004710.html
How else does the U.S. government help people? Protection from the rule of law. Business owners who don't pay their workers and do other illegal shady practices would be in deep crap in the United States. That seems to be less the case in Korea.
| Quote: |
| Korea is among the worst countries for workers' rights, according tothe Global Rights Index (GRI) from the world's largest labor representative body. |
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2014/05/116_157733.html
Some Koreans told me they think if the Sewol had sunk off the coast of the United States, no one would have died. A Chinese person told me the same thing, saying if a ferry sunk in China many people would die, but if a ferry sunk in the U.S., everyone would live.
The point is, the U.S. is not a bad place. It's not nearly as bad as you are making it out to be. If it really were a hellhole, why would it be a top tourist destination...
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| Tourists spend more money in the United States than any other country, while attracting the second-highest number of tourists after France.[2] The discrepancy may be explained by longer stays in the US.[2] |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_the_United_States
…and why would it be the place immigrants most want to come to?
| Quote: |
| The United States has always been regarded as a nation of immigrants. Recently-published figures from the United Nations support this view. More than 45 million immigrants live in the U.S., according to UN figures, more than four times as many living in any other nation in the world. |
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/29/countries-most-immigrants_n_4009750.html |
Your list of what Americans get for their tax dollar is pretty lame. Intellectual property protection? Because so many Americans have intellectual property they need protecting? This isn't true any way. You would have to pay for lawyers if your intellectual property was infringed uopn. National parks? Every country has national parks and many in the US are not free as you claim. A family of four is paying about $80 to go to Yellowstone. Air cleaner than Seoul? Wow thanks US government. How about things like maternity leave, vacation time, child care, free university? US tax payers get none of these things.
And don't feign knowldege of me or my financial circumstances. You are the one always chirping on this board " wow 4 million is big money" and " how much money can one make digging up oil in North Dakota."
Talking about salaries is tacky, trashy, and points to ill breeding. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| radcon wrote: |
Your list of what Americans get for their tax dollar is pretty lame. Intellectual property protection? Because so many Americans have intellectual property they need protecting? |
The irony is that a (probably strong) majority of Americans are actually "guilty" of violating intellectual property laws. Essentially World Traveller is suggesting the criminalization of most Americans is a benefit received in return for tax dollars here. |
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bmaw01
Joined: 13 May 2013
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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The American middle class has deteriorated in the last 30 years. Anyone who says differently is either lying or he/she is just an idiot.
A recent study was released that showed the middle class at its height in the 1970's was over 64%. The middle class now sits below 50%.
I talk to a lot of very young people. Most are still living at home. They owe over $25k in student loan debt. Good paying jobs are difficult to obtain. I don't see how this is going to be a good thing for the middle class. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 8:08 am Post subject: |
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I don't agree that what you are saying above is true.
Do you even know the name of the study?
Media does negative stories, and people tend to remember negative stories, but they often don't show the whole picture. (Statistics are complicated as well; the boundaries of what constitutes middle class is hard to define and shifts.)
I don't doubt you talked to many young people who didn't have good jobs, but how do you know they were accurate representations of young people in America?
I know and have known many losers. I've also known and know many successful people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L18H_-LxycU |
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