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I hate the way Koreans talk.
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cj1976

Joined: 26 Oct 2005

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:58 pm Post subject:

Korea and Korean people will not change because of the discontented grumblings of expats. They (Koreans) are happy to do things they have always done, and screw everyone else. I'm just glad I can take regular overseas trips to places that are not so depressing and utterly frustrating. Those trips act like a reset switch that allow me to cool off and accept the frustration of Korean life for a few months. If you really don't like Korea, then you have to get out. At least temporarily.

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:26 pm Post subject:

Mr. BlackCat wrote:

Whatever you feel on this particular subject, can we call just agree to stop these "If you don't like it leave!" posts? No one is buying your defence that you're 'concerned' about the other people. No one believes you don't like complaining on the interent. You are spending your day complaining on the internet, just about something else. You are not concerned, you are writing these posts to feel superior. Even if the person really hates Korea, do you really believe they are unaware they can leave? Do you really think these people believe they are prisoners in this country? Of course not, you just have to let them, and the rest of us, know that you are 'above' it, and you are so much better at living overseas than them.

And let's cut this "guest" BS out right now. I would never walk up to someone living and working in my home country and call the a "guest", and I'm not one here either. I do my job, pay my taxes, follow the law and contribute in small ways to my community. It's like calling your roommate a 'guest' and telling them they should ask before using
the bathroom.

Funny, arent these the same people who take Koreans to task for valuing money over happiness? That trumpet their critical thinking and creativity skills? If indeed they did value happiness as much as they say, and were as smart, creative, and as such good thinkers as they say, shouldn't they be able to get themselves out of this situation?

I agree with the idea that people dont necessarily have to leave, but if you ARE stuck here, why don't you try to think positively. Or perhaps reexamine your decision making process and perhaps consider that the fault lies not in your stars but in yourself.

To paraphrase Sweeney in American History X- Has this mindset made your life in Korea better? Is it working for you?

As for the guest thing. In a place with mandatory conscription, yeah, you may not be a guest, but you aren't one of the family. That is unless you are clamoring to serve for 2.5 years in the ROK Army. To continue your metaphor, you may be paying rent, but you aren't doing all of the chores.

Stu_miller

Joined: 23 Apr 2014

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:37 pm Post subject:

Smithington wrote:

Say what, now? Stu hasn't even been to Korea? He doesn't live here? Yet he's telling us how we should feel about the place? What a complete idiot. He's not even a green newbie yet and he's lecturing us veterans about adjusting to Korean society. Ignore this fool.

Haha, thanks for the sweet words of wisdom. Unfortunately, your understanding of what I wrote doesn't quite match your ability to make me feel all warm inside.

At no point, did I tell anyone how to feel. In fact, I went out of my way on several occasions to emphasise that this is just the way I look at things and that people are entitled to do and feel whatever they want. This should be read as given, yet I still made this point several times and you still didn't grasp that. Yet, I am the fool, apparently.

Secondly, I have several years behind me as an expat in Asia, so you are quite correct in saying that I am not a green newbie. In fact, this doesn't matter at all as, to repeat again, I never once "told anyone what to do or how to feel". My main point was that I don't agree with people who bitch and moan so much, but it is obviously (maybe I should capitalise this for Smith) their inalienable right to do so.

In response to Mr Blackcat, I'm not particularly concerned for anyone who feels this way and I didn't ever say that, although neither does it fill my heart with joy and songbirds to see so much negativity. For sure, I'm a pretty cynical guy and can be negative about plenty of things but if they are things I can't do much about then I like to think I'm fairly good at letting them wash over. If that doesn't work for other people, then more power to them.

Do I feel like I'm "better at living overseas" (as you put it) than overly negative people who let everything bother them?.... Yes, sure. Flexibility, open-mindedness, and tolerance are important factors, in my opinion, to living abroad happily. Again, I'm just expressing my point of view, not telling anyone else what to do. If people are at a stage where they don't have a choice then I fully understand that and empathise. I never once told anyone to leave anywhere. But I suppose people will read what they want to read, regardless.

Smithington

Joined: 14 Dec 2011

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:51 pm Post subject:

You have absolutely no credibility on this site. I've been here ten years pal, you haven't even set foot in the place. You're embarassing yourself. Just go away. Do the time, get the experience, then form an opinion. Not the other way around. Sound reasonable? Last edited by Smithington on Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:56 pm; edited 1 time in total

T-J

Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:54 pm Post subject:

Smithington wrote:

Who invited you to the vets' table noob?

Stu_miller

Joined: 23 Apr 2014

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:14 pm Post subject:

Smithington wrote:

You have absolutely no credibility on this site. I've been here ten years pal, you haven't even set foot in the place. You're embarassing yourself. Just go away.

Do the time, get the experience, then form an opinion. Not the other way around. Sound reasonable?

Reasonable in your own head, I'm sure. Don't tell me what I need to do in order to express an opinion. As I've mentioned several times, my comments are based on a number of years living in Asia, and the points I have made do not need to be specific to Korea only. There's only one person embarrassing himself in this discussion. And credibility? If you cared about credibility, you would have stopped posting already given how poor your ability is to read and comprehend my posts. All this from the guy who criticised me for telling people how to feel, which I never did.

Can I come back to play when I have my 6 months badge, or do I have to wait for the 10-year bitter and twisted award? Please do let me know.

cabeza

Joined: 29 Sep 2012

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:39 pm Post subject:

Stu_miller wrote:

Can I come back to play when I have my 6 months badge, or do I have to wait for the 10-year bitter and twisted award? Please do let me know.

Good question, it's one that i've been asked many times before.

The official policy is:

6 month "Koreaboo rose tinted glasses" badge holders CANNOT give their own opinions on anything. It just wouldnt be right.

However at a recent meeting the 1 year "Know it all" badge holders were told they were free to play as much as they want to.

But please note: the 10 year "My God what have I done with my life" badge holders may change these rules at any time.

Mr. BlackCat

Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:42 pm Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

Seriously, what the heck are you talking about? I can't talk for other people, especially when they're an amalgamation of dozens of people you've disagreed with over the years.

But I will say that there is a big, big, big different between a whole society that is hyper-materialistic and an individual who works a job that he may not love for monetary gain.

And that's the root of the issue here. Where is this utopia with amazing jobs that are perfect that these people should go to? Around the world, most people either work jobs they don't particularly love, or live in a place they don't particularly love, because we have to survive. Yes, it'd be great if we could all be rock stars living in NY or London, but most of us in the real world have to work and earn money. That usually entails not having our first, or second, or even third choice as a job. It can also mean not living in our first, second or third choice of a city/country. But that doesn't mean we hate what we're doing. We're just realistic about it. I want to live in NY or Paris or any number of other cities over Seoul. That doesn't mean I hate Seoul, and I have lived in some of these cities and there were annoyances there, too. I enjoy my job, but if there was a possibility of me being a rock star or astronaut or dinosaur trainer, then I would drop it like it's hottt. And I bet you there are things that suck about being a rock star, astronaut and dinosaur trainer, too.

The line, "If you don't like it get out!" can be applied to about 98% of the world's population. Yeah, we have some choices, but there are going to be crappy things elsewhere, too. Saying that you don't like the language here or that the weather sucks or that there is garbage everywhere doesn't mean you hate the place or are swapping in your happiness for money. It means that you are fine with your life, but there are some things that irk you.

I just don't trust you guys who say everything is great here and no one should complain. In my first year I worked with a bunch of foreigners and one guy was like that while one girl complained about everything. Complete opposite ends of the spectrum. In the end they both lasted a year, but he barely made it, left after lots of drama with several Koreans still probably looking for him for several reasons and complains about the place every time I hear from him now. To me, it's a just a facade and every person I know who goes on and on about how perfect Korean is ends up crashing out badly in the end. There are some complainers, but at least I know where they stand, they don't try to shove their views in your face nearly as much as the Koreaboos. And this goes for overly positive people anywhere. Why are you trying to convince me that everything is so great? If it really is that great, go and enjoy it. Leave me alone with my cynicism.

Anyway, I don't really care about the OP. I'm deskwarming and I found it funny, if anything. But I knew the holier than thou THEN LEAVE! comments were coming right away.

Who's Your Daddy?

Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:13 am Post subject:

Mr. BlackCat wrote:

I just don't trust you guys who say everything is great here and no one should complain.

To me they're either ignorant new arrivals, or nuts.

le-paul

Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:18 am Post subject:

cj1976 wrote:

Korea and Korean people will not change because of the discontented grumblings of expats. They (Koreans) are happy to do things they have always done, and screw everyone else. I'm just glad I can take regular overseas trips to places that are not so depressing and utterly frustrating. Those trips act like a reset switch that allow me to cool off and accept the frustration of Korean life for a few months.
If you really don't like Korea, then you have to get out. At least temporarily.

I agree with this, however, it seems that some Koreans are getting more and more pissed off with it - especially the ones that have been abroad.

It may not seem like were making a difference, but a lot of people are beginning to realise they don't have to take this crap everyday. Just look at Korean feminism, its the older people that are saying get in the kitchen and cook. On the same theme, some of the old habits are becoming watered down.

There was a time when i used to tell my GF to mind her manners, these days, its usually the other way round. I put that down in part to travelling around the world together and picking up odds and ends from different cultures.

Just remember, however much you deny the fact, every person you will meet in your life will impact on you a small amount, and change your personality.

Stu_miller

Joined: 23 Apr 2014

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:45 am Post subject:

le-paul wrote:

every person you will meet in your life will impact on you a small amount, and change your personality.

I do agree with the part in bold, but I would disagree, in the main, with changing one's personality. After childhood and apart from a small number (normally) of key figures in one's life, I would suggest that most interactions with other people will not change someone's core personality in any meaningful way. More likely, I'd say most interactions will reinforce someone's established characteristics, habits and beliefs, rather than alter them. Also, I think it's fair to say that the likelihood of one's personality changing decreases almost exponentially with the passing of years in adulthood.

I believe the impact that you mentioned is more commonly seen in the gaining of experiences, skills, and knowledge, which I don't necessarily equate to a change in personality. Essentially, after a certain age, I think we are who we are, personality-wise, for life, mostly regardless of who we meet along the way (apart from the key influential figures mentioned earlier).

mr_thehorse

Joined: 27 Aug 2013

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:25 am Post subject:

Smithington wrote:

HAHA. You've been here 10 years and it annoys you how people here talk? Must not be that annoying.

You really are stuck here aren't you? You are addicted to the easy money, and the relatively comfortable lifestyle. But yet, you are a marginalized worker and not the special snowflake you feel you are.

I'd be angry too if I felt I was a snowflake.

Chaparrastique

Joined: 01 Jan 2014

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:21 am Post subject:

MrBlackCat wrote:

The line, "If you don't like it get out!" can be applied to about 98% of the world's population.

People are awfully fond of telling other people how they should live their lives.

Suggesting to someone they should move on is one of those backhanded condescensions that people try to dress-up as well-meaning concern.

Everywhere you go in the world, people get a kick out of telling you you should be living somewhere else or doing better for yourself.

Cj1976 wrote:

the discontented grumblings of expats.

This is a worldwide phenomenon.

last time I was in London I watched some pretty bitter poles interacting with local brits.

They are subject to all the same rudeness, pushiness and anti-foreign attitudes that expats in korea may face.

Foreign people in any country have to behave ten times better than the locals just to be thought of as human.

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:38 am Post subject:

Quote:

But I will say that there is a big, big, big different between a whole society that is hyper-materialistic and an individual who works a job that he may not love for monetary gain.

A society is composed of individuals.

Quote:

And that's the root of the issue here. Where is this utopia with amazing jobs that are perfect that these people should go to? Around the world, most people either work jobs they don't particularly love, or live in a place they don't particularly love, because we have to survive.

So isn't that what "they" are doing?

Quote:

The line, "If you don't like it get out!" can be applied to about 98% of the world's population. Yeah, we have some choices, but there are going to be crappy things elsewhere, too. Saying that you don't like the language here or that the weather sucks or that there is garbage everywhere doesn't mean you hate the place or are swapping in your happiness for money. It means that you are fine with your life, but there are some things that irk you.

I'll agree with that.

Quote:

And I have to say, that something worse than people who complain about where they are and seem to blame everyone but themselves for their lot in life and follow a self-destructive mindset, in the end, they HAVE done the time. They DO have more credibility than someone who has never been here.

Until you've stepped foot in Korea, don't down on the people who have a hard time here.

Zyzyfer

Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:33 pm Post subject:

T-J wrote:

Smithington wrote:

Who invited you to the vets' table noob?

I have zero interest in participating in the thread topic, but when I see comments like this from you, it makes me curious if folks like bluelake who have been here for quite an extraordinary amount of time view people like you who have been here appreciably long, but not quite as long as they have, with similar - faux or legitimate, you could be cleverly trolling posters who write off people with very little time in country like Smithington did - "noobish" contempt?

I'm not really trying to be caustic, really I'm not. It just seems like 15 years is equally as arbitrary as 10 years, or 5 years, or 2 years or 1 year. I know people who have been here less time than me who have far more ingrained ties to society here than myself, and I also know people who have been here longer, who haven't made significant strides in that regard.

However, I think we can all agree that someone who has yet to arrive in the country may very well be able to provide an insightful point of view, but certainly not any insight itself.

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