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Lucas
Joined: 11 Sep 2012
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 Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:51 pm Post subject: third soldier kills himself - 820 since 2004! |
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http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20140812000993
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| According to military data, a total of 820 soldiers have taken their own lives since 2004. Between 2004 and 2008, the annual average number of suicides was 72.6, while the average figure between 2009 and 2013 was 82.2. Last year, the figure stood at 79. |
That's messed up! |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:31 am Post subject: |
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| While very sad... I wonder how different it is than the whole SK population. (?) |
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guavashake
Joined: 09 Nov 2013
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Savant
Joined: 25 May 2007
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:03 am Post subject: |
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From the article:
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| The soldier from Gwangju, in particular, attempted suicide on his base last October. He also ran away from his unit the next month, but was captured eight hours later. Military officials said his unit sought to classify him as unfit for active duty, but failed to do so after his parents opposed the decision. |
Does that mean that the Military tried to get him out of active duty but his parents refused to accept that their son had a serious problem?
Was it a case of the parents denying their son had a mental illness?
Edit:
http://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=2993443&cloc=joongangdaily|home|top
From this article:
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The younger Lee moved to the 28th Division last September and the Army went so far as to consider discharging him because of his psychological state in June. He had confessed to suicidal thoughts.
But his mother opposed the plan and encouraged her son to stay on. There is a tendency in Korea to believe mandatory military duty is an opportunity for men to “develop as adults in a true sense” and to “be ready to advance into society. |
Well, I hope that that mother is haunted by her son's ghost for the rest of her life. |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:20 am Post subject: Re: third soldier kills himself - 820 since 2004! |
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| Lucas wrote: |
http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20140812000993
| Quote: |
| According to military data, a total of 820 soldiers have taken their own lives since 2004. Between 2004 and 2008, the annual average number of suicides was 72.6, while the average figure between 2009 and 2013 was 82.2. Last year, the figure stood at 79. |
That's messed up! |
Korea is a very bullying society, and the military is an extreme example of that.
Koreans like to have a wangta in every group, someone that can act as a scapegoat for everyone to take their frustrations out on. This is the way Korean society is designed: it is such a shaming society that people offload their shame onto the weakest individual available.
In the army anyone who is at all different- perhaps with a mental problem or simply individualistic- has no protection and no recourse.
That is what these rogue soldier incidents are about. Victimized people whose cries for help are are continuously ignored, taking revenge on their abusers.
Last edited by Chaparrastique on Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:32 am; edited 1 time in total |
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aq8knyus
Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:29 am Post subject: Re: third soldier kills himself - 820 since 2004! |
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| Chaparrastique wrote: |
| Lucas wrote: |
http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20140812000993
| Quote: |
| According to military data, a total of 820 soldiers have taken their own lives since 2004. Between 2004 and 2008, the annual average number of suicides was 72.6, while the average figure between 2009 and 2013 was 82.2. Last year, the figure stood at 79. |
That's messed up! |
From what I heard there is a lot of bullying that happens in the military.
Korea is a society that likes to have a wangta in every group, this reaches overdrive in the military because they have licence to do anything. |
They should do what the russians did and reduce the service time to 1 year, so that nobody can gain seniority and bully the newbs. |
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sml7285
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:46 am Post subject: Re: third soldier kills himself - 820 since 2004! |
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| aq8knyus wrote: |
| Chaparrastique wrote: |
| Lucas wrote: |
http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20140812000993
| Quote: |
| According to military data, a total of 820 soldiers have taken their own lives since 2004. Between 2004 and 2008, the annual average number of suicides was 72.6, while the average figure between 2009 and 2013 was 82.2. Last year, the figure stood at 79. |
That's messed up! |
From what I heard there is a lot of bullying that happens in the military.
Korea is a society that likes to have a wangta in every group, this reaches overdrive in the military because they have licence to do anything. |
They should do what the russians did and reduce the service time to 1 year, so that nobody can gain seniority and bully the newbs. |
As someone who has been in the military, I can definitively state that this is a horrible idea. It takes easily around 15 months for a soldier to become even somewhat effective in his specialty.
Seeing as the service time for soldiers is currently at 21 months, I'd say that somewhere around 20% of soldiers are competent at their roles. Reduce the service time to a year and you'd have a "military" full of kids who can't even do the basics. |
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Lucas
Joined: 11 Sep 2012
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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According to this article, USA military veterans suicide at an average of 22 per day.
And that is only counting veterans of the Iraq and Afghan wars.
If you add about one active duty suicide per day, the average is 23 per day. |
Yeah but those soldiers have seen ACTIVE duty - sweeping snow, whilst boring aint going to make me wanna kill myself.
I think what Korea needs is to start sending some of their soldiers to war zones and have them SHOOT PEOPLE. They could improve their English at the same time and experience a different 'culture'. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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Whilst some conscripts do indeed end up just shoveling snow or mowing lawns, many are used as infantry, artillery, or armor. The infantry do get deployed to patrol the DMZ in some far out place in Gangwon-do where isolated and away from the much supervision, these things take place.
The fact is that the crazy guy to the north basically necessitates mandatory military service. You need to have a population that has had an element of basic training so that in the event of full out mobilization, you can rapidly swell your ranks. That's also the reason that many people are in fact thrown into combat roles when you'd think the ideal place for middling conscripts would be in support roles.
And as long as you have mandatory service, you are going to get some people who might not be the most stable. If you start handing out deferments left and right, the system will collapse.
Ideally Korea would move to a purely volunteer army, but that just isn't practicable given its current situation.
And the suicide rates are not that far off from other nations. For example, France's volunteer military had 230 suicides from 1997-2000 (not a peak time of French military activity) out of 315,000 soldiers. Korea has roughly double the number of soldiers, with conscripts, and had 820 since 2004.
Given easy access to firearms and conscript service... |
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sml7285
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Lucas wrote: |
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According to this article, USA military veterans suicide at an average of 22 per day.
And that is only counting veterans of the Iraq and Afghan wars.
If you add about one active duty suicide per day, the average is 23 per day. |
Yeah but those soldiers have seen ACTIVE duty - sweeping snow, whilst boring aint going to make me wanna kill myself.
I think what Korea needs is to start sending some of their soldiers to war zones and have them SHOOT PEOPLE. They could improve their English at the same time and experience a different 'culture'. |
I was stationed at a heavy artillery base less than 3 km from the border. We had complete ******** as officers and so most of us didn't get any leave other than the bare minimum required by law (27 days over 21 months).
During my time in the service, I'd say we were at Readiness Condition 1 for about 3 months, Readiness Condition 2 for around another 3 months and Readiness Condition 3 for about 9 months. That's around 15 months out of my military career spent legitimately prepared for war.
What does going to Readiness Condition 1 entail? Going around base and fortifying the fences with razor wire. Climbing up the mountains with a backpack full of claymores and laying down wire. Going to the top guard post with a light machine gun and praying that the officers don't decide to order you to carry cases of ammunition up as well. Tripling up on guard duty so that you have to stand guard for 4 hours at a time (I got unlucky one winter day and spent 10 hours in a guard post... in -25 degree weather and got bad frostbite on my feet and hands). Combine that with the fact that you have to sleep in your uniform with your gun, can't shower or wash clothes because all the pipes have frozen, can't get more than 4 hours of sleep because of nightly guard duty and the insane itchiness on your hands and feet due to frostbite and you have soldiers breaking down left and right after a few weeks in Readiness Condition 1.
Sure, I was in the army during an abnormal time - there was the rocket launch, nuclear test, artillery strikes in the West Sea. And I don't begin to compare myself to combat arms soldiers in the US Army. However, I've got plenty of friends who serve in all branches of the US military, and I can state that I've been through much more hardship than any standard non-combat arms soldier in the US military... Afghanistan/Iraq deployment or not. |
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Lucas
Joined: 11 Sep 2012
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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We had complete ******** as officers and so most of us didn't get any leave other than the bare minimum required by law (27 days over 21 months).
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Thats more than some hagwon teachers get. 
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And the suicide rates are not that far off from other nations. For example, France's volunteer military had 230 suicides from 1997-2000 (not a peak time of French military activity) out of 315,000 soldiers. Korea has roughly double the number of soldiers, with conscripts, and had 820 since 2004.
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The French are world renowned for being surrender monkeys, so what you're saying is that Korean soldiers are at a similar level. God help us then! |
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cabeza
Joined: 29 Sep 2012
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Lucas wrote: |
The French are world renowned for being surrender monkeys |
No that's just lazy, ignorant Americanized thinking. It was funny on the Simpsons. But it's a line that gets spouted by people who usually know next to nothing about French history, particularly WWI where they lost almost 5% of their population in fighting. 1.3million soldiers dead. What a bunch of pussies. |
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sml7285
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Lucas wrote: |
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We had complete ******** as officers and so most of us didn't get any leave other than the bare minimum required by law (27 days over 21 months).
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Thats more than some hagwon teachers get.
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Not when you consider that soldiers have between 4 to 6 hours of guard duty on Saturdays and Sundays as well as any other training, labor, etc that officers decide are needed. There are no days off. |
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aq8knyus
Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:46 pm Post subject: Re: third soldier kills himself - 820 since 2004! |
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| Quote: |
As someone who has been in the military, I can definitively state that this is a horrible idea. It takes easily around 15 months for a soldier to become even somewhat effective in his specialty.
Seeing as the service time for soldiers is currently at 21 months, I'd say that somewhere around 20% of soldiers are competent at their roles. Reduce the service time to a year and you'd have a "military" full of kids who can't even do the basics. |
What happens in those three months between the 12th and 15th month to make a kid who can't do the basics turn into someone who is somewhat effective in their speacialty?
If that is the case then they should change the training programme.
Also if only 20% of soldiers are competent in your opinion, even after 21 months of training, then they wouldn't be losing much anyway. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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| cabeza wrote: |
| Lucas wrote: |
The French are world renowned for being surrender monkeys |
No that's just lazy, ignorant Americanized thinking. It was funny on the Simpsons. But it's a line that gets spouted by people who usually know next to nothing about French history, particularly WWI where they lost almost 5% of their population in fighting. 1.3million soldiers dead. What a bunch of pussies. |
Not to mention that Napoleon guy. When I think of surrender and military ineptitude his name and names like Davout, Massena, Mura,and Ney come to mind.
And in WWII the French did inflict significant casualties, destroying over 1,000 German aircraft despite being hopelessly outclassed. Free French units such as the Normandie-Niemann fighter group, which served with distinction on the Eastern Front, fought on against Hitler's menace. |
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