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radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
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 Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 12:10 am Post subject: |
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Here are some stats for you to ponder:
-the whole Arab world translates about three hundred books annually. investment in research and development is less than one seventh the world average; and Internet connectivity is worse than in sub-Saharan Africa.
Fifty-seven Muslim majority countries have an average of ten universities each for a total of less than 600 universities for 1.4 billion people; India has 8,407 universities, the U.S. has 5,758.
Of the 1.4 billion Muslims 800 million are illiterate (6 out of 10 Muslims cannot read)
No universities from Muslim-majority states was included in the top 500 in world rankings. |
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FriendlyDaegu
Joined: 26 Aug 2012
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:37 am Post subject: |
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Nothing to add on topic, but this claim seems fantastical to me:
| radcon wrote: |
| No universities from Muslim-majority states was included in the top 500 in world rankings. |
The top-500 list you're looking at doesn't have any schools from UAE, Saudi Arabia, Malaysia or Kazakstan? |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:38 am Post subject: |
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| radcon wrote: |
| That twin towers cake looks really shoddy- like a 6 year old made it. So along with their ineptitude in science, commerce, sport and pretty much every human endeavor except blowing stuff up, Muslims also show themselves to be poor bakers. |
So one amateur baking a cake as a political statement, represents all Muslims and their baking?
Wouldn't it be more appropriate to sample baked goods from a Muslim bakery and then arriving at a conclusion? The Middle-Eastern bakeries here in Seoul seem to be reasonably popular.
Muslims do excel in weightlifting, wrestling, cricket, field hockey, soccer, and boxing.
Maybe you're referring to AMERICAN sports. |
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radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 2:13 am Post subject: |
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| FriendlyDaegu wrote: |
Nothing to add on topic, but this claim seems fantastical to me:
| radcon wrote: |
| No universities from Muslim-majority states was included in the top 500 in world rankings. |
The top-500 list you're looking at doesn't have any schools from UAE, Saudi Arabia, Malaysia or Kazakstan? |
I also found that hard to believe. The rankings were done by a Chinese university. The rankings are probably highly dubious. I searched again and other rankings have about 4 or 5 Islamic universities in the top 500 You can read about it here:
http://www.webcitation.org/query?url=http://gulfnews.com/opinions/columnists/reasons-for-decline-of-the-muslim-world-1.176750&date=2012-03-10
Last edited by radcon on Mon Sep 15, 2014 2:32 am; edited 2 times in total |
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radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 2:16 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| radcon wrote: |
| That twin towers cake looks really shoddy- like a 6 year old made it. So along with their ineptitude in science, commerce, sport and pretty much every human endeavor except blowing stuff up, Muslims also show themselves to be poor bakers. |
So one amateur baking a cake as a political statement, represents all Muslims and their baking?
Wouldn't it be more appropriate to sample baked goods from a Muslim bakery and then arriving at a conclusion? The Middle-Eastern bakeries here in Seoul seem to be reasonably popular.
Muslims do excel in weightlifting, wrestling, cricket, field hockey, soccer, and boxing.
Maybe you're referring to AMERICAN sports. |
Dude come on. Forget the baking. It was a tongue in cheek example used to say that the Muslim world does not punch its weight in human endeavors or the advancement of mankind. For the record, I love me some proper baklava. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Smithington wrote: |
| radcon wrote: |
| So along with their ineptitude in science, commerce, sport and pretty much every human endeavor except blowing stuff up, Muslims also show themselves to be poor bakers. |
Why don't you tell that to Fareed Zakaria, Snoop Dog, Iman, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Muhammad Ali, Dr. Oz, Shaquille O'Neill, Hasam Rahman, Mike Tyson, Jawad Karim (co-founder of Youtube), Malcolm X, Anwar Sadat, Dave Chapelle, Janet Jackson...and these guys. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_Muslims
You sound like an ignorant, Fox-news watching redneck. |
Snoop Dog, Dave Chapelle, Iman?
I dig Kareem's rugs but:
power high, power low
you can take 'em all to school
you can fly, wilt the stilt had nothing on you
lambchops and afro-do, milwaukee bucks and a barbecue
#33 just like you
sweet lew, how could you?
sweet lew, makin' me blue
a laker trade their bobby-d for a house, a crew by the sea
a little help from 32, showtime, and worthy
those were the days, pre-investment spree
sweet lew, is it true?
sweet lew, how could you?
i grew up trying to copy you, bruce lee, and a kung-fu
acta jazzman, yogi too
little did i know, a loose screw
but you had your own shoe |
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EastisEast
Joined: 29 May 2014
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:47 am Post subject: |
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| If you have a billion or two people yes a few individuals may stand out. But that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about belief systems and societies that create great things, not a few random individuals on a wiki list who probably needed the West to realize their accomplishments anyway..Both India and China have space programs. They have scientific achievement in many areas. They have innovative economies to an extent. I'm waiting for you to name some achievements from the Muslim world in science, medicine, whatever you like. Go ahead. Wiki is your friend. |
This is what constitutes a civilization ?? Yikes! Sounds more like a video game.
Are you saying that Muslims were not the most advanced culture for many centuries while Europe lived in hovels, afraid to even wash themselves for fear of getting the pox? Do you know history? How many basic and important english words are arabic?
How much knowledge did the west 'borrow' from Muslim culture??
And I'm not even Muslim and I know this. |
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radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| EastisEast wrote: |
| Quote: |
| If you have a billion or two people yes a few individuals may stand out. But that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about belief systems and societies that create great things, not a few random individuals on a wiki list who probably needed the West to realize their accomplishments anyway..Both India and China have space programs. They have scientific achievement in many areas. They have innovative economies to an extent. I'm waiting for you to name some achievements from the Muslim world in science, medicine, whatever you like. Go ahead. Wiki is your friend. |
This is what constitutes a civilization ?? Yikes! Sounds more like a video game.
Are you saying that Muslims were not the most advanced culture for many centuries while Europe lived in hovels, afraid to even wash themselves for fear of getting the pox? Do you know history? How many basic and important english words are arabic?
How much knowledge did the west 'borrow' from Muslim culture??
And I'm not even Muslim and I know this. |
Yes I realize Arab culture was advanced a thousand years ago and I briefly addressed this point in a previous post. Please give me an example of something of value created by an Islamic society in the last 300 or 400 years. What happened to these societies that they were once world beaters but now offer not much. What have you done for me lately. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| radcon wrote: |
| EastisEast wrote: |
| Quote: |
| If you have a billion or two people yes a few individuals may stand out. But that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about belief systems and societies that create great things, not a few random individuals on a wiki list who probably needed the West to realize their accomplishments anyway..Both India and China have space programs. They have scientific achievement in many areas. They have innovative economies to an extent. I'm waiting for you to name some achievements from the Muslim world in science, medicine, whatever you like. Go ahead. Wiki is your friend. |
This is what constitutes a civilization ?? Yikes! Sounds more like a video game.
Are you saying that Muslims were not the most advanced culture for many centuries while Europe lived in hovels, afraid to even wash themselves for fear of getting the pox? Do you know history? How many basic and important english words are arabic?
How much knowledge did the west 'borrow' from Muslim culture??
And I'm not even Muslim and I know this. |
Yes I realize Arab culture was advanced a thousand years ago and I briefly addressed this point in a previous post. Please give me an example of something of value created by an Islamic society in the last 300 or 400 years. What happened to these societies that they were once world beaters but now offer not much. What have you done for me lately. |
Mathematics... but that was way way back. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| radcon wrote: |
| EastisEast wrote: |
| Quote: |
| If you have a billion or two people yes a few individuals may stand out. But that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about belief systems and societies that create great things, not a few random individuals on a wiki list who probably needed the West to realize their accomplishments anyway..Both India and China have space programs. They have scientific achievement in many areas. They have innovative economies to an extent. I'm waiting for you to name some achievements from the Muslim world in science, medicine, whatever you like. Go ahead. Wiki is your friend. |
This is what constitutes a civilization ?? Yikes! Sounds more like a video game.
Are you saying that Muslims were not the most advanced culture for many centuries while Europe lived in hovels, afraid to even wash themselves for fear of getting the pox? Do you know history? How many basic and important english words are arabic?
How much knowledge did the west 'borrow' from Muslim culture??
And I'm not even Muslim and I know this. |
Yes I realize Arab culture was advanced a thousand years ago and I briefly addressed this point in a previous post. Please give me an example of something of value created by an Islamic society in the last 300 or 400 years. What happened to these societies that they were once world beaters but now offer not much. What have you done for me lately. |
By that logic, if it was the year 1400 one could say the same thing about Europe. Would that mean European culture is garbage and they should abandin their religion?
Empires and regions ebb and flow. Thats the nature of things. |
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radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| radcon wrote: |
| EastisEast wrote: |
| Quote: |
| If you have a billion or two people yes a few individuals may stand out. But that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about belief systems and societies that create great things, not a few random individuals on a wiki list who probably needed the West to realize their accomplishments anyway..Both India and China have space programs. They have scientific achievement in many areas. They have innovative economies to an extent. I'm waiting for you to name some achievements from the Muslim world in science, medicine, whatever you like. Go ahead. Wiki is your friend. |
This is what constitutes a civilization ?? Yikes! Sounds more like a video game.
Are you saying that Muslims were not the most advanced culture for many centuries while Europe lived in hovels, afraid to even wash themselves for fear of getting the pox? Do you know history? How many basic and important english words are arabic?
How much knowledge did the west 'borrow' from Muslim culture??
And I'm not even Muslim and I know this. |
Yes I realize Arab culture was advanced a thousand years ago and I briefly addressed this point in a previous post. Please give me an example of something of value created by an Islamic society in the last 300 or 400 years. What happened to these societies that they were once world beaters but now offer not much. What have you done for me lately. |
By that logic, if it was the year 1400 one could say the same thing about Europe. Would that mean European culture is garbage and they should abandin their religion?
Empires and regions ebb and flow. Thats the nature of things. |
First off everyone should abandon their religion. If this were the year 1400 we wouldn't be debating this on an internet forum because Western civilization hadn't invented the internet yet. Zing.
So when are you expecting an "ebb and flow" of Islamic societies that will once again propel them to the forefront of scientific discovery? Do't hold your breath on that one.
Still I ask- name some advancements that originated from mulsim societies in the last 500 years. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| radcon wrote: |
| Still I ask- name some advancements that originated from mulsim societies in the last 500 years. |
Coffee |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| radcon wrote: |
| So when are you expecting an "ebb and flow" of Islamic societies that will once again propel them to the forefront of scientific discovery? Do't hold your breath on that one. |
Things can change. In 1910, the US was not considered a world power, and French was still the 'international' language. By 1945, the US became a world power, and English replaced French as the 'world's' language.
All it takes is one forward, charismatic, and popular, Muslim leader to rapidly change the region. |
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radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:15 am Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| radcon wrote: |
| Still I ask- name some advancements that originated from mulsim societies in the last 500 years. |
Coffee |
Not so fast.
"Arabian coffee-drinking began almost 12 centuries ago (850 A.D.) when an Abyssinian goat herder named Khalid noticed that while the afternoon sun made him drowsy, his flock frolicked and skipped about after nibbling at some berries. Khalid either ate the berries whole, or ground and boiled them.
When his wife saw how energetic the normally exhausted Khalid was, she urged him to share this miraculous discovery with the local holy man at the monastery. The chief monk did not share Khalid's enthusiasm. Declaring the berries "the work of the Devil," he flung them into a fire to banish their offending presence. Soon the room filled with the delicious aroma of roasting berries, and other monks hurried in to discover the source of this new delight."
"the passage says the goat herder named Khalid (or Kaldi as he is named in another version of the story) was an Abyssinian. Abyssinians were predominantly Orthodox Christians. In addition, there is no such thing as monasteries or monks in Islam. In fact, it is forbidden (Qur'an 57:027). Therefore, if this legend were to be true, Khalid (or Kaldi) would not have been a Muslim, but a Christian."
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/How_Islamic_Inventors_Did_Not_Change_The_World |
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radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:17 am Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| radcon wrote: |
| So when are you expecting an "ebb and flow" of Islamic societies that will once again propel them to the forefront of scientific discovery? Do't hold your breath on that one. |
Things can change. In 1910, the US was not considered a world power, and French was still the 'international' language. By 1945, the US became a world power, and English replaced French as the 'world's' language.
All it takes is one forward, charismatic, and popular, Muslim leader to rapidly change the region. |
Who said anything about becoming a world power. How about one invention, discovery, advancement, anything, originating from the Muslim world in the last 500 years. Anyone? Anyone? |
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