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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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 Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:51 am Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| Cave Dweller wrote: |
Italy had several goals disallowed, at least one of which for no good reason at all.
Lee Chun Su kicked Toti in the back of the head and got no punishment. Both sides were playing rough and flopping around but Italy gets a red card for it.
| jvalmer wrote: |
| Soft Machine wrote: |
| How about the 2002 World Cup? Italian, Spanish and American fans are still scratching their heads after that one. |
The Spanish may have some reason to scratch their heads. But the Americans, and the Italians?
The Italians just sat back all game. The should have destroyed SK like Germany did to Brazil, if they were truly the superior team. And the American lost to friggin' Poland and still qualified for the round of 16. |
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Italy lost, there was no conspiracy.
Just wondering why you think the Yanks were robbed? They beat surprisingly beat Portugal. The Korea v USA was pretty much uncontroversial, aside from Ahn's little speed skating display. Then the US lost a must-win game to the Poles, who weren't so hot, and squeaked into the knock-out stages. Beat Mexico and lost to those Germans. |
The 2002 WC had all the right ingredients for a juicy conspiracy. One of the most interesting was the choice of referee one of the games. He was a proven crook with a track record of corruption. Korea were comprehensively outclassed but managed to get all the luck. Hmmm.. |
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Joe Boxer
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Location: Bundang, South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| Cave Dweller wrote: |
Italy had several goals disallowed, at least one of which for no good reason at all.
Lee Chun Su kicked Toti in the back of the head and got no punishment. Both sides were playing rough and flopping around but Italy gets a red card for it.
| jvalmer wrote: |
| Soft Machine wrote: |
| How about the 2002 World Cup? Italian, Spanish and American fans are still scratching their heads after that one. |
The Spanish may have some reason to scratch their heads. But the Americans, and the Italians?
The Italians just sat back all game. The should have destroyed SK like Germany did to Brazil, if they were truly the superior team. And the American lost to friggin' Poland and still qualified for the round of 16. |
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Italy lost, there was no conspiracy. |
Here's an article from a couple of months ago, about the Italy/Korea game:
"The tragic tale of Byron Moreno, “the worst referee, ever”
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/world-cup/the-tragic-tale-of-byron-moreno-the-worst-referee-ever/article19110587/ |
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SHGator428
Joined: 05 Sep 2014
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:37 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| SHGator428 wrote: |
Did the poster state emphatically that Korea is the only one ever involved in corruption in those sports? Looks like he just gave a history of it happening in Korea on a board/forum that focuses on Korea.
A couple of things here:
Does pointing out stuff that happens in the ROK also happens elsewhere make it less bad that it is going on there?
Do you feel better about yourself for diverting topics away from Korea on a site for expats discussing Korea? |
First, those less familiar with the issue or perhaps possessing poor critical thinking skills might read the OPs post and conclude that these phenomenon are unique to Korean hosted international events. There is certainly nothing in the OP's writing to suggest that they aren't. The OP fails to mention this happening in other countries or mentioning the history of corruption in the sports involved. He only cites Korean examples. A reader who had no knowledge of sports history would clearly be left with the impression that this was a uniquely Korean phenomenon.
I think pretending that the OP wasn't trying to single out S.Korea as being especially corrupt is about as believable as an apologist pretending that nothing bad goes on here. We all know the intent of the OP. If you believe the OP was "merely pointing out problems with Korea" but understanding that this is common in other places that have those sports, then I suggest tuning into FOXNews for your headlines.
If the OP wasn't making this point about S. Korea but instead the respective sports, he would have simply stated "international sports competition" without mention of the host nation. He would have mentioned other nations as well.
Anyways, if someone bashing Korea mentions how things are different in another country, are you going to accuse them of "diverting" the discussion and not keeping it focused on Korea? Why is it okay for people to mention other countries when negatively talking about Korea, but its not okay for people to mention other countries when defending Korea? Is it really mentioning other countries that is the problem or is it the fact that someone has a different point of view than you? |
So what if that small fraction of people looked at it that way? Why do you care so much if they did? Does it hurt your feelings? Are you doing the board a regal service in some way?
The op posted on a board about S Korea. Does he need to qualify anything by comparing his post to some other place?
You don't see me jumping in on every (or any for that matter) America or China bashing post even though I have ties to both places do you? I get that people have a different opinion. The sooner you do and stop taking things as a personal slight, the less time you'll waste on here crusading/diverting anything and everything related to the place this board was set up to discuss.
Have a good day. |
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radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:34 am Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| Cave Dweller wrote: |
Italy had several goals disallowed, at least one of which for no good reason at all.
Lee Chun Su kicked Toti in the back of the head and got no punishment. Both sides were playing rough and flopping around but Italy gets a red card for it.
| jvalmer wrote: |
| Soft Machine wrote: |
| How about the 2002 World Cup? Italian, Spanish and American fans are still scratching their heads after that one. |
The Spanish may have some reason to scratch their heads. But the Americans, and the Italians?
The Italians just sat back all game. The should have destroyed SK like Germany did to Brazil, if they were truly the superior team. And the American lost to friggin' Poland and still qualified for the round of 16. |
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Italy lost, there was no conspiracy.
Just wondering why you think the Yanks were robbed? They beat surprisingly beat Portugal. The Korea v USA was pretty much uncontroversial, aside from Ahn's little speed skating display. Then the US lost a must-win game to the Poles, who weren't so hot, and squeaked into the knock-out stages. Beat Mexico and lost to those Germans. |
The Americans outplayed the Germans that night and were cheated by a German handball that was not called. Nothing to do with Korea though. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:19 am Post subject: |
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| cj1976 wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| Cave Dweller wrote: |
Italy had several goals disallowed, at least one of which for no good reason at all.
Lee Chun Su kicked Toti in the back of the head and got no punishment. Both sides were playing rough and flopping around but Italy gets a red card for it.
| jvalmer wrote: |
| Soft Machine wrote: |
| How about the 2002 World Cup? Italian, Spanish and American fans are still scratching their heads after that one. |
The Spanish may have some reason to scratch their heads. But the Americans, and the Italians?
The Italians just sat back all game. The should have destroyed SK like Germany did to Brazil, if they were truly the superior team. And the American lost to friggin' Poland and still qualified for the round of 16. |
|
Italy lost, there was no conspiracy.
Just wondering why you think the Yanks were robbed? They beat surprisingly beat Portugal. The Korea v USA was pretty much uncontroversial, aside from Ahn's little speed skating display. Then the US lost a must-win game to the Poles, who weren't so hot, and squeaked into the knock-out stages. Beat Mexico and lost to those Germans. |
The 2002 WC had all the right ingredients for a juicy conspiracy. One of the most interesting was the choice of referee one of the games. He was a proven crook with a track record of corruption. Korea were comprehensively outclassed but managed to get all the luck. Hmmm.. |
The last World Cup in Brazil kind of shows that the World Cup does have a history of shoddy reffing. Goes way back to at least England World Cup.
I was at the game. Korea was not comprehensively outclassed vs Italy. Italy kind of sat back after that first goal . And even replaced a forward for a defender later in the game. Italy was pretty lackluster during the group stages too, and if wanted to prove they were better they should have scored like 5 goals. |
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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:29 am Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| cj1976 wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| Cave Dweller wrote: |
Italy had several goals disallowed, at least one of which for no good reason at all.
Lee Chun Su kicked Toti in the back of the head and got no punishment. Both sides were playing rough and flopping around but Italy gets a red card for it.
| jvalmer wrote: |
| Soft Machine wrote: |
| How about the 2002 World Cup? Italian, Spanish and American fans are still scratching their heads after that one. |
The Spanish may have some reason to scratch their heads. But the Americans, and the Italians?
The Italians just sat back all game. The should have destroyed SK like Germany did to Brazil, if they were truly the superior team. And the American lost to friggin' Poland and still qualified for the round of 16. |
|
Italy lost, there was no conspiracy.
Just wondering why you think the Yanks were robbed? They beat surprisingly beat Portugal. The Korea v USA was pretty much uncontroversial, aside from Ahn's little speed skating display. Then the US lost a must-win game to the Poles, who weren't so hot, and squeaked into the knock-out stages. Beat Mexico and lost to those Germans. |
The 2002 WC had all the right ingredients for a juicy conspiracy. One of the most interesting was the choice of referee one of the games. He was a proven crook with a track record of corruption. Korea were comprehensively outclassed but managed to get all the luck. Hmmm.. |
The last World Cup in Brazil kind of shows that the World Cup does have a history of shoddy reffing. Goes way back to at least England World Cup.
I was at the game. Korea was not comprehensively outclassed vs Italy. Italy kind of sat back after that first goal . And even replaced a forward for a defender later in the game. Italy was pretty lackluster during the group stages too, and if wanted to prove they were better they should have scored like 5 goals. |
Well, that's why the ref is integral to this little conspiracy theory. If another ref with better eyesight had been officiating, would Korea have ever gained that impetus? Also, it wasn't just that Korea game that referees seemed to have misplaced their spectacles.
I wouldn't go so far as to say that the fix was in, but given the history of Korean bribery and the general corruption in Korean society, it would not surprise me at all. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:34 am Post subject: |
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| cj1976 wrote: |
Well, that's why the ref is integral to this little conspiracy theory. If another ref with better eyesight had been officiating, would Korea have ever gained that impetus? Also, it wasn't just that Korea game that referees seemed to have misplaced their spectacles.
I wouldn't go so far as to say that the fix was in, but given the history of Korean bribery and the general corruption in Korean society, it would not surprise me at all. |
I have to say the fix wasn't in, just crap reffing. Tons of conspiracy theories in lots of world cups. Well, actually in almost any event that the Europeans run the show in... cough... cough... FIFA, IOC, Intl Boxing... |
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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:49 am Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| cj1976 wrote: |
Well, that's why the ref is integral to this little conspiracy theory. If another ref with better eyesight had been officiating, would Korea have ever gained that impetus? Also, it wasn't just that Korea game that referees seemed to have misplaced their spectacles.
I wouldn't go so far as to say that the fix was in, but given the history of Korean bribery and the general corruption in Korean society, it would not surprise me at all. |
I have to say the fix wasn't in, just crap reffing. Tons of conspiracy theories in lots of world cups. Well, actually in almost any event that the Europeans run the show in... cough... cough... FIFA, IOC, Intl Boxing... |
The Italians could smell a rat. If anyone knows how to fix a game, it's them! |
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Soft Machine
Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:40 am Post subject: |
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Remember the '88 games? Remember the Korean boxer who, despite being outpointed and outpunched, refused to leave the ring after a decision went against him? Remember the Korean managers, punters and even security guards whomping on the officiating crew with chairs, kicks and punches? Remember Roy Jones, Jr? Remember the Korean boxing federation pounding their chests and saying THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN IN SEOUL when decisions went agains them in LA in '84? Remember the US boxers who were disqualified because bout times were changed and athletes never informed? Remember who were the beneficiaries of that miscommunication? Remember the Asiad in '86 when some athletes refused to compete 'cause of match fixing?
Can't wait for the winter games....the Korean skating federation has made it clear what will transpire in Pyongchang. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| Soft Machine wrote: |
| Can't wait for the winter games....the Korean skating federation has made it clear what will transpire in Pyongchang. |
It there a link for this 'threat' being made?
Yuna won't be skating in 2018, and Korea has no upcoming figure skaters even remote good enough to win an Olympic medal in 4 years. You think they'll give a gold to some Korean skater ranked 35th in the world?
Figure skating is like boxing, often controversial with their judging. Like that Russian pair that had their gold medal taken away in favor for a Canadian in 2002. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| cj1976 wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| cj1976 wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| Cave Dweller wrote: |
Italy had several goals disallowed, at least one of which for no good reason at all.
Lee Chun Su kicked Toti in the back of the head and got no punishment. Both sides were playing rough and flopping around but Italy gets a red card for it.
| jvalmer wrote: |
| Soft Machine wrote: |
| How about the 2002 World Cup? Italian, Spanish and American fans are still scratching their heads after that one. |
The Spanish may have some reason to scratch their heads. But the Americans, and the Italians?
The Italians just sat back all game. The should have destroyed SK like Germany did to Brazil, if they were truly the superior team. And the American lost to friggin' Poland and still qualified for the round of 16. |
|
Italy lost, there was no conspiracy.
Just wondering why you think the Yanks were robbed? They beat surprisingly beat Portugal. The Korea v USA was pretty much uncontroversial, aside from Ahn's little speed skating display. Then the US lost a must-win game to the Poles, who weren't so hot, and squeaked into the knock-out stages. Beat Mexico and lost to those Germans. |
The 2002 WC had all the right ingredients for a juicy conspiracy. One of the most interesting was the choice of referee one of the games. He was a proven crook with a track record of corruption. Korea were comprehensively outclassed but managed to get all the luck. Hmmm.. |
The last World Cup in Brazil kind of shows that the World Cup does have a history of shoddy reffing. Goes way back to at least England World Cup.
I was at the game. Korea was not comprehensively outclassed vs Italy. Italy kind of sat back after that first goal . And even replaced a forward for a defender later in the game. Italy was pretty lackluster during the group stages too, and if wanted to prove they were better they should have scored like 5 goals. |
Well, that's why the ref is integral to this little conspiracy theory. If another ref with better eyesight had been officiating, would Korea have ever gained that impetus? Also, it wasn't just that Korea game that referees seemed to have misplaced their spectacles.
I wouldn't go so far as to say that the fix was in, but given the history of Korean bribery and the general corruption in Korean society, it would not surprise me at all. |
The Italy game was certainly dodgy, but for all we know, Moreno might have been pressured by mafia types somewhere (not necessarily Korea, though possibly) who were looking to make bucks on the outcome on the match and not the Korean Football Assc. Heck, he might have been bribed by the Koreans AND mobsters back home.
| Quote: |
| Remember the '88 games? Remember the Korean boxer who, despite being outpointed and outpunched, refused to leave the ring after a decision went against him? Remember the Korean managers, punters and even security guards whomping on the officiating crew with chairs, kicks and punches? Remember Roy Jones, Jr? Remember the Korean boxing federation pounding their chests and saying THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN IN SEOUL when decisions went agains them in LA in '84? Remember the US boxers who were disqualified because bout times were changed and athletes never informed? Remember who were the beneficiaries of that miscommunication? Remember the Asiad in '86 when some athletes refused to compete 'cause of match fixing? |
Those all seem to have boxing in common, one of the most notoriously corrupt sports out there. Not saying the Koreans weren't in on the fix, but you're not talking about the cleanest sport in the world.
Also most of us don't remember because the average age here probably prevents that. How old were you at the time? Were you an avid boxing buff? |
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Soft Machine
Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:48 am Post subject: |
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Don't know, man; I just ran a quick search on Korea and sports and this is part of the article that popped up.
REPORTING FROM SEOUL -– As it prepares to host the 2018 Winter Olympics, South Korea is scrambling to stem a widening match-fixing scandal that has so far spread to five different professional sports, disgusting fans nationwide.
On Saturday, prosecutors in the city of Daegu arrested a 26-year-old betting broker they allege masterminded several game-fixing schemes in the Korea Baseball Organization, the nation's most popular sports league.
But baseball is just the tip of a deepening scandal that also involves soccer, basketball, volleyball and motorboat racing, authorities say.
Look, man, every week it seems some sort of cheating, lying, embezzling, or plagarizing scandal hits the papers. Why would sport be handled any differently? |
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Joe Boxer
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Location: Bundang, South Korea
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Joe Boxer
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Location: Bundang, South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:07 am Post subject: |
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| Soft Machine wrote: |
| Remember the '88 games? ... Remember Roy Jones, Jr? |
Infamous '88 Olympic Fight
Roy Jones vs Park Si-Hun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iww6JSiofrg |
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Cave Dweller
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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They never had their medals taken away. a 2nd gold medal was awarded to the Canadian couple as well.
So is Yuna retiring? I had not heard about this until now.
| jvalmer wrote: |
| Soft Machine wrote: |
| Can't wait for the winter games....the Korean skating federation has made it clear what will transpire in Pyongchang. |
It there a link for this 'threat' being made?
Yuna won't be skating in 2018, and Korea has no upcoming figure skaters even remote good enough to win an Olympic medal in 4 years. You think they'll give a gold to some Korean skater ranked 35th in the world?
Figure skating is like boxing, often controversial with their judging. Like that Russian pair that had their gold medal taken away in favor for a Canadian in 2002. |
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