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ChrisPK
Joined: 07 Aug 2014
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Shimokitazawa
Joined: 14 Dec 2007
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:57 am Post subject: |
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| PRagic wrote: |
| No. Read my post; all of it. While not in an English affiliated discipline, I have a PhD, I'm in a tenure track position, I've been promoted, and I'm afforded all pay and opportunities afforded K faculty. |
Yeah, you are full of shit.
You know full well that doctorates teaching EFL in Korea are still relegated to the demeaning contract cycle without full tenure and the benefits that come along with that.
Yeah, we know: You're tenured, have a doctorate and do not teach EFL.
Okay. Good. Got that out of the way.
So, those who do have doctorates or master's degrees with active involvement in their field and publications are still teaching on contracts. That is a two-tiered system. I call it academic apartheid.
And that's exactly what it is.
You're can't be that ignorant. |
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PRagic
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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All depends on the job an individual chooses to take. If someone takes a tenure track gig, then everything I've said is true. If someone takes a contract, visiting prof gig, then, no, they obviously won't get the terms and perks associated with a tenure track position.
If you want to call that a two-tiered system, fine, but that's the reality of academe the world over, and NOT just in ESL. There are loads of people ion temporary, visiting, and adjunct status in N. America, for example.
And, again, I'm not tenured yet. |
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ChrisPK
Joined: 07 Aug 2014
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:01 am Post subject: |
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| PRagic wrote: |
All depends on the job an individual chooses to take. If someone takes a tenure track gig, then everything I've said is true. If someone takes a contract, visiting prof gig, then, no, they obviously won't get the terms and perks associated with a tenure track position.
If you want to call that a two-tiered system, fine, but that's the reality of academe the world over, and NOT just in ESL. There are loads of people ion temporary, visiting, and adjunct status in N. America, for example.
And, again, I'm not tenured yet. |
Where do you teach? |
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PRagic
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:01 am Post subject: |
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...and having reread your post, a few points need clarification....
1. tenure track positions will not be available for those teaching ESL (teaching students English). The tenure track jobs will be in colleges of education, usually in a department of English language education, and for those who teach future teachers and researchers. Along with this will come the usual MA and Ph.D. guidance, publishing, and admin responsibilities.
2. No, an MA holder, even if they publish and are active in their field, will not be qualified at a 4 year university or college for a tenure track position. It's not reasonable to think that an MA holder can teach doctoral level seminars or guide diversified doctoral level research. Teach ESL? Heck ya, but see number 1 above.
3. Obtaining tenure is a process for Ph.D. holders, and there's no guarantee of tenure once the process has begun. In fact, most assistant professor new hires, here and elsewhere, are indeed on a contract, though it is normally 4 years as opposed to the one or two year contracts a ESL lecturers are given. If the person doesn't sufficiently publish and/or does not meet satisfactory teaching metrics, they are simply not promoted to associate professor and not renewed. This can happen again when going up for full professor promotion review (you're still on a contact that, once promoted, carries over until the
next review). So you have to have the Ph.D. and publications just to get the job, and you have to stay sufficiently active to keep the job. Tenure is granted (usually with a promotion to full professor here, but at the associate professor level in N. America) only after a full internal and external review of your credentials. |
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ChrisPK
Joined: 07 Aug 2014
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:01 am Post subject: |
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| PRagic wrote: |
...and having reread your post, a few points need clarification....
1. tenure track positions will not be available for those teaching ESL (teaching students English). The tenure track jobs will be in colleges of education, usually in a department of English language education, and for those who teach future teachers and researchers. Along with this will come the usual MA and Ph.D. guidance, publishing, and admin responsibilities.
2. No, an MA holder, even if they publish and are active in their field, will not be qualified at a 4 year university or college for a tenure track position. It's not reasonable to think that an MA holder can teach doctoral level seminars or guide diversified doctoral level research. Teach ESL? Heck ya, but see number 1 above.
3. Obtaining tenure is a process for Ph.D. holders, and there's no guarantee of tenure once the process has begun. In fact, most assistant professor new hires, here and elsewhere, are indeed on a contract, though it is normally 4 years as opposed to the one or two year contracts a ESL lecturers are given. If the person doesn't sufficiently publish and/or does not meet satisfactory teaching metrics, they are simply not promoted to associate professor and not renewed. This can happen again when going up for full professor promotion review (you're still on a contact that, once promoted, carries over until the
next review). So you have to have the Ph.D. and publications just to get the job, and you have to stay sufficiently active to keep the job. Tenure is granted (usually with a promotion to full professor here, but at the associate professor level in N. America) only after a full internal and external review of your credentials. |
It sounds like you're talking about academia in the US. That's not the way how it works here, I mean, how to get tenure. It's widespread for Korean professors to plagiarize already published papers/dissertations or steal their grad students' work. Academic publications here in Korea are just a joke. They just publish friends' or alumni's papers, so there's no standard--hence the rampant plagiarism by professors. Even education minister candidates got caught appropriating their PhD students' work. And also a lot of bribery goes on behind the scene. Most foreigners don't know how to navigate this corrupt academic system. I hope you have already learned how to play this game! |
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PRagic
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:52 am Post subject: |
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Been in the game a while, thanks, and I'm on the tenure track HERE so I'm very well aware how things work HERE. The shadowy process you're describing may still be the norm at smaller, lower tiered universities, but to get promotion and tenure at the bigger schools (and to get hired in the first place) you have to have publications in SCI/SSCI ranked journals and the editorial and referee vigor for these publications reflects international, peer review standards that are pretty tough to skate on. At most of the larger universities, triggered in part by the problems you mentioned, all publications are further vetted via plagiarism software.
And let's not forget that academic integrity lapses are certainly not confined to Korea. Would the good senator from Montana please raise his hand? |
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ChrisPK
Joined: 07 Aug 2014
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 2:05 am Post subject: |
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| PRagic wrote: |
Been in the game a while, thanks, and I'm on the tenure track HERE so I'm very well aware how things work HERE. The shadowy process you're describing may still be the norm at smaller, lower tiered universities, but to get promotion and tenure at the bigger schools (and to get hired in the first place) you have to have publications in SCI/SSCI ranked journals and the editorial and referee vigor for these publications reflects international, peer review standards that are pretty tough to skate on. At most of the larger universities, triggered in part by the problems you mentioned, all publications are further vetted via plagiarism software.
And let's not forget that academic integrity lapses are certainly not confined to Korea. Would the good senator from Montana please raise his hand? |
No, I was talking about Korea's top universities. Don't you know several Korean professors at SNU and other top Unis got caught plagiarizing or falsifying their research results. That's just the tip of the iceberg. Plagiarism is quite common even in top schools. And there's no punishment even if you get caught with plagiarism in Korea, which is the real problem. |
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