Korean Job Discussion Forums

[schwa]

Two questions for your comments please.

"Her mom helped her learn English."
"Her mom helped her to learn English."
"Her mom helped her with learning English."

All correct. My first question:

"Her mom helped her learning English."

Wrong, yes? Totally comprehensible but grammatically awkward. I've googled this extensively but can't find a single supporting usage.

This distinction has caused a big controversy in my school as a .5% difference in a test score has caused a very bright student to lose the chance to apply to a foreign language high school she had her heart set on. It wasnt my call, stupid too-fine criteria, but what's your take on the grammar above?

Question 2: Is there a technical term for a verb like "help" that can accept both a bare verb and an infinitive?

[edwardcatflap]

It depends on the point of the test and where she made the mistake. If it was in a specific grammar section on verb forms then what your student wrote is grammatically incorrect as you said and I don't really get why there's a controversy. If she got penalized for that sentence in a writing activity or something then it might be harsh to deduct x number of points

As for the .5% difference, If students have to get a minimum score to pass a test or enter a school etc. there will always be someone who fails by a narrow margin.

Sorry can't answer question 2, though I can't think of any other verbs that behave like 'help'.

[schwa]

In fact it was a written answer checking comprehension. She was denied part marks, which would have made up the difference. Harsh is the right word.

[edwardcatflap]

Yeah I agree

[T-J]

Boy! That's a tough one. I hope the cosmic hum weighs in on this one. I'd like to see more informed opinions than mine.

My first reaction through substitution tests is that it's awkward but not grammatically incorrect.

If there is a grammatical problem with it it's dependent on the tense, the specific gerund or a combination of both. I can think of examples where help can be followed by gerunds.

Her mom helped her cooking dinner.
Her mom helped her moving house.
Her mom helped her killing the teacher.

None of which seem awkward.

Her mom helps her studying English.

Also not awkward.

More I think about it, the more I think it's not grammatically wrong.

Great question for discussion. Terrible test question and if it was marked off as part of a comprehension question then I would not take points off for that response based on grammar.

[edwardcatflap]

[geldedgoat]

[FriendlyDaegu]

[Stain]

Usually, only sense verbs like watch, see, or hear use the gerund when following a direct object. Example, "I heard her having sex."
In terms of 'help', the infinitive is needed: "I helped her to have sex." However, the 'to' can be omitted and often is in everyday speaking, so "I helped her have sex" is also correct.

[Stain]

Actually, now that I think about it, which I didn't do before, using the 'to' actually changes the meaning of the sentence. "I helped her to have sex" implies that I helped her in order to have sex. This sentence actually makes more sense than the latter, which implies that I merely helped in the process of her having sex and might not have participated in the actual sex. Damn the English language!

[atwood]

It's wrong.

There is no special term for verbs that can be used with a bare infinitive.

[Roman Holiday]

[T-J]

After further reflection all four are correct.

Her mother = subject
helped = verb
her = object

to learn English (infinitive)
learn English (bare infinitive)
with learning English (preposition + gerund)
learning English (present participle) *not a gerund

All four can be used as the object compliment grammatically.

[atwood]

[The Cosmic Hum]