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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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burtonboardrline
Joined: 22 Nov 2014
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 Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 6:05 pm Post subject: New here, need some guidance/advice |
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I know a few people who have gone to South Korea to teach English, and so recently I started considering doing that myself. However, I really know nothing about it or what goes into it, I am completely new to the whole idea. I was referred to this site by a friend who is teaching in SK now, I have already looked through several posts and will continue to do so - there is plenty of information on this site. However, I still wanted to make a post myself to get started. I find it really helpful to get direct responses, but of course I will continue to read the other posts on the forums.
Anyway, I have several questions I wanted to ask. In general, right now, I am just trying to decide if this is right for me or not.
The first and most important question I have is about what age group I will be teaching. Initially it seemed like I would most likely be teaching kids (maybe between 5 and 10 or so years old?). I am honestly not very good with kids, and don't think I would be comfortable teaching groups of kids because I would have a hard time keeping them focused or keeping them behaved. I was wondering if it would be possible to get a job with high schoolers, or if maybe that would also be tough to keep their attention and keep them behaved. When it comes to college aged students, I assume working at a university would require more than just a bachelors degree. I have a bachelors degree (not in education) but no other teaching experience. Also, what about adults? I think I may prefer teaching adults but don't know if it is harder to find a job teaching adults or if there are other cons.
I also wanted to ask about what people prefer when it comes to public vs private schools. And what exactly is a Hagwon? My friend in SK is working at one and it sounded a bit sketchy by the way he described it.
Any recommendations on recruiters or websites to find these jobs in the first place? I know someone else who is going through "USA Teachers" but it seems like they only work with ages 5-13.
How about teaching in Korea Vs Japan? I heard it's harder to get a job teaching in Japan.
Finally, will I need references? And is the process for obtaining a Visa and other documents easy?
Sorry about the length of this post, and I do know that information on these questions is already available on the forum. I have already found some information and will continue to look but I just wanted to make a post to sort of gather all the answers to my questions in one place and get a good start on gathering this information. I think the most important thing to me right now is finding out about teaching different age groups and what an "average day" is like so I can get an idea if this is right for me or not before I commit to this fully. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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It'll be difficult to get a job just teaching high school kids. Public schools are mostly cutting jobs in this age range and private institutes run kids classes for all age groups. You could teach adults but you'd probably be on split shifts 7-10 in the morning and 6-10 at night.
Also put yourself in a foreign adult's position. if you were trying to learn a new language, would you want to be taught by someone with absolutely no experience or qualifications in the field. Not trying to be nasty, just showing you how teaching adults might be tougher than you imagine and you may well get complaints.
At least with teaching kids in Korea, there isn't really much emphasis on the education side of things in the private sector so people in your position can do much better, as long as they look the part and make it fun for the kids. |
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SeoulNate
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
Location: Hyehwa
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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1. Much harder to find jobs teaching adults for a few reasons.
A) simply fewer jobs
B) most favor applicants with experience
C) nearly every adult job I have seen advertised for new teachers is going to be a terrible split shift
2. Hagwon = privately run institute. The ones that you would work at teach English and they vary highly in quality.
3. Use all recruiters simultaneously. Never stick to only one.
4. you do not qualify for even an entry level position in Japan as far as I know
5. You will need references, but they will most likely not be called if they are overseas
6. process is mostly done for you by the school and recruiter |
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burtonboardrline
Joined: 22 Nov 2014
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| So for someone with just a bachelors degree and no teaching experience, what kind of positions would be an option? Just teaching the youngest kids? or a specific age range? I know recruiters/sites advertise that no previous teaching experience is required, but you're saying that without previous teaching experience it makes it unlikely I would get to teach adults, or even high school kids? |
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SeoulNate
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
Location: Hyehwa
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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There are very few high school jobs available for native teachers unless they speak Korean and are very familiar with the high school graduation tests here.
Are there adult jobs that will hire in a newbie?
Yes.
However, for every one of those there are probably 50 academies hiring for kindergarten for elementary level.
You could probably get your feet wet working for an academy like Avalon or Topia teaching elementary/middle school aged kids with a decent grasp of the language already. The material is already set for you and discipline shouldnt be much of an issue. However, I would still recommend a TESOL/CELTA course before you come. |
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basic69isokay
Joined: 28 Sep 2014
Location: korea
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| Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:55 am Post subject: |
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I would honestly recommend that you choose another country.
Not being pessimistic, just telling you that Korea is expensive and the job market is probably the worst it's ever been here.
Really, why not choose China? Or Vietnam or Thailand, if money is not the #1 priority.
Korean ESL is past its peak and you can sow seeds in China! I'd definitely suggest that. |
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burtonboardrline
Joined: 22 Nov 2014
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| Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Other than the countries you already mentioned are there any other good ones to consider? Also I would need to get an idea of what teaching in those countries would be like - how safe are they and how easily would I be able to get by without speaking the local language / how nice the locals are etc. I don't think I would mind choosing another country as long as it would still be enjoyable or realistic for me to go there. |
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basic69isokay
Joined: 28 Sep 2014
Location: korea
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| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:05 am Post subject: |
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In descending order, from fun, interesting, easy lifestyle down to shit i need to pay off my loans, so ill just endure this:
Argentina
Spain
Brazil
Thailand
Colombia
Vietnam
Taiwan
China
Japan
Korea
And many more in between. Basically, if you have no debt, choose near the top of the list. If you do, bottom. |
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PRagic
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:09 am Post subject: |
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| Pagoda, Wall Street Institute, YBM, Chungmoon Language Institute....there are a few hagwon chains in Seoul that hire newbies to teach adults, or at least they used to. |
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schwa
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Yap
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| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:28 am Post subject: |
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OP, dont be put off considering Korea based on negativity on Daves. These forums have always had that slant but many people continue to come here & have a good experience. You're not hearing their side.
Sure, conditions are declining, but it could still work out fine for you. Many hagwons are aimed at a range of ages & you might be surprised where your best abilities lie. Teaching isnt rocket science, its more about interpersonal skills & an aptitude for trying your best. The students, generally, are very pleasant.
Be aware of the warnings, but Korea continues to offer nice opportunities. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 4:32 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Pagoda, Wall Street Institute, YBM, Chungmoon Language Institute....there are a few hagwon chains in Seoul that hire newbies to teach adults, or at least they used to. |
Wall St seem to have upped their requirements, judging from their website. It's good to see that, faced with a glut of potential candidates, they've gone for experience rather than the 'must be young, female and North American' route.
http://www.wallstreetenglish.co.kr/about/recruit_lecture3.asp |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:34 am Post subject: |
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| basic69isokay wrote: |
In descending order, from fun, interesting, easy lifestyle down to shit i need to pay off my loans, so ill just endure this:
Argentina
Spain
Brazil
Thailand
Colombia
Vietnam
Taiwan
China
Japan
Korea
And many more in between. Basically, if you have no debt, choose near the top of the list. If you do, bottom. |
"Fun" and "interesting" depend a lot on the individual. Personally, I liked Brazil a lot but similarly I liked Japan.
The money in Argentina and Brazil aren't bad if you can get the work. There aren't a lot of ELT jobs in Argentina though. I've heard that the market in Brazil is still ok. In general, South America hasn't been flooded by backpackers and travelling English teachers like East Asia has so you won't be facing as much competition. One thing that I liked about teaching in Europe and South America is that most classes were for teens, college students and young professionals. Most students also had a basic conversational level of English fluency. Kiddy classes and elementary classes weren't very common.
In terms of money, Saudi and the gulf states in general are lot better than Korea and Japan.
Korea is a great place to start off for someone who has little or no experience living abroad or backpacking for an extended period of time. There are plenty of jobs here for people with no experience or practical qualifications. You don't need to be in the country to find jobs. The salary isn't bad. It's a safe place to live. Travel here (and usually back home after a year) and accommodation are provided. So there is very little overhead.
If you're more confident and able to hustle a bit, you can make more money in Japan but then you'll also need to take care of your own accommodations and costs are higher there. Vietnam is also a good place to make some money. Rates are a bit lower but you aren't limited to a single employer like in Korea, and cost of living is lower. Same goes for Thailand. China... depends on the city. |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:34 am Post subject: Re: New here, need some guidance/advice |
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| burtonboardrline wrote: |
Anyway, I have several questions I wanted to ask. In general, right now, I am just trying to decide if this is right for me or not.
1. The first and most important question I have is about what age group I will be teaching.
2. Initially it seemed like I would most likely be teaching kids (maybe between 5 and 10 or so years old?).
3. I am honestly not very good with kids, and don't think I would be comfortable teaching groups of kids because I would have a hard time keeping them focused or keeping them behaved. I was wondering if it would be possible to get a job with high schoolers, or if maybe that would also be tough to keep their attention and keep them behaved.
4. When it comes to college aged students, I assume working at a university would require more than just a bachelors degree. I have a bachelors degree (not in education) but no other teaching experience.
5. Also, what about adults? I think I may prefer teaching adults but don't know if it is harder to find a job teaching adults or if there are other cons.
6. I also wanted to ask about what people prefer when it comes to public vs private schools.
7. And what exactly is a Hagwon?
8. Any recommendations on recruiters or websites to find these jobs in the first place? I know someone else who is going through "USA Teachers" but it seems like they only work with ages 5-13.
9. How about teaching in Korea Vs Japan? I heard it's harder to get a job teaching in Japan.
10. Finally, will I need references?
11. And is the process for obtaining a Visa and other documents easy?
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I've numbered them for easy reference. If you make another post with lots of questions, I recommend listing them. You'll probably get more replies to more of the questions. Alternatively, break it up into a series of threads.
1. Most likely primary and secondary school age. Early afternoon - little kids. Evening - high schoolers.
2. Yes. It's very likely.
3. High school kids are no easier to keep under control. In fact, they are probably more likely to test your limits intentionally. As well, they are usually over worked and you'll get them at the end of the day when they are very tired. If you get a job at a high school (instead of a hagwon - private language school) then you would be teaching only high schoolers. They'll likely be better behaved as well since they're not likely to provoke your Korean co-teacher.
4. Most likely it will require at least an MA and some experience. Of course, Korea also has diploma mills and those places have little to no standards so you might be able to find one willing to hire you. The conditions will probably be bad. I wouldn't recommend it.
5. A lot of people prefer to teach adults so competition is high. Most places hiring for adult classes will want someone with experience (preferably teaching adults). Remember, those are customers and if they don't like your class then they'll leave and the school loses money. They want to make sure they're hiring someone who will make them money. That's not to say that you can't find adult school jobs but without experience your chances are slim.
6. That depends on the individual. A lot of people on this forum seem to prefer private schools ("hagwons" in Korean) but there is another forum (which cannot be named here) which is populated almost entirely by public school teachers who will always recommend against working at a hagwon. Both types of school have their pros and cons.
Public:
-regular office hours, evenings free, need to come in early in the morning
-fixed schedule
-job security
-possibly nasty co-teachers
-mixed level classes (sorted only by age)
-medium size classes (over 12 students)
-contracts are standard and non-negotiable
-longer holidays
Private:
-work afternoons and evenings, can sleep in, can hang out at the clubs after work (because you can sleep in the next day)
-schedule might change a lot from month to month
-can and will be fired if the business starts to go under or if the boss doesn't like you
-you run the classes yourself
-classes usually sorted by level (to some degree)
-smaller classes
-possibly some adult classes (even schools for kids will sometimes round up a few adults for a class or two per week)
-you can negotiate your contract (you can also negotiate some extra work if you're able to drum up some business of your own)
-fewer holidays
7. A hagwon (also sometiems spelled hagwan, hogwon, hakwon, etc.) is a private business that teaches classes. They teach all sorts of things. Most have a specialization (e.g. English, piano, baseball) but some are more general (e.g. test prep schools). Some are small mom-and-pop operations. Some are part of a large franchise or chain. Some are fly by night (and could be empty on Monday morning). Others have been around for years.
8. All recruiters are scum. All will provide good jobs to some teachers and bad jobs to others. If they get ANY job then they will try to fill it and get their commission. They will look at your resume and then try to offer you the worst job possible (the hardest to get rid of) regardless of how good you are. The key to using recruiters is to apply to as many as possible. Send them all the following
-form letter (change the first sentence to name the place, if you really want to customize it)
-scanned copies of your diploma and passport
-photos of you looking happy and wearing professional clothing (bonus if the photos look like you're teaching or working with happy kids)
-scanned copy of your criminal background check
-your resume (it's required but they might not look actually read it)
For website, take a look at the job list on Dave's. Do a google search for others. (Sorry. We can't list them on this forum.)
9. It might be a bit harder to find jobs in Japan but it's certainly possible. Hourly, the pay is better there but the overhead is higher.
10. No. Reference aren't needed. If you had some from Korea it might be a bonus but not a priority.
11. It's very easy. You send the documents to the employer. He applies for a visa issuance number. You go with that number and your passport to the nearest Korean embassy/consulate. Submit an application. Wait a week or so. Done. Go to Korea. When you're in Korea, you (or your boss) will submit an application for an alien residence card. You wait (up to a month) and you're done. |
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burtonboardrline
Joined: 22 Nov 2014
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:00 am Post subject: |
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| Thank you everyone for the responses, I will continue to look into this |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| basic69isokay wrote: |
In descending order, from fun, interesting, easy lifestyle down to shit i need to pay off my loans, so ill just endure this:
Argentina
Spain
Brazil
Thailand
Colombia
Vietnam
Taiwan
China
Japan
Korea
And many more in between. Basically, if you have no debt, choose near the top of the list. If you do, bottom. |
Well, I'd put Japan further up that list and China further down. As we enter 2015, here's what I see happening very quickly.
Argentina
Spain
Brazil
Thailand
Colombia
Vietnam
Japan
Taiwan
Korea
China
Of course, Korea is more devloped and more stable than China. Just as years ago, Japan held the same advantage over Korea. But, Japan started giving BS work conditions and wages, while Korea paid out the bucks. Korea and China seem to be mimicking this today. A 10,000 rmb deal with housing in a smaller area will let you save as much as a 2.1 million deal here. If you have no experience, you can push for this or even more. A modest city with housing at 12,000 will let you save more than here a bit. Experienced teachers can negotiate for more than these amounts of course.
Anyways, Korea might even slip below Taiwan if the public schools stop hiring and the market gets flooded anymore. (Public school cut backs happening next year.) And remember, many employers are cutting the return flights. So, that will come out of your savings. Also, the won is falling heavily against the US dollar making the potential for savings even lower.
China is so large that I assume they'd be able to absorb a lot of English teachers as long as the demand is high.
Korea's been able to get away with being obnoxious the last couple of years because they could and there was no alternative. But, I think Korea will wake up over the next couple of years and be in for a major surprise. (US economic recovery and China absorbing teachers like a sponge soaking up water.) At this point in time, Korea's chickens will come home to roost. (The China alternative really wasn't an option up until now.)
Check www.xe.com for exchange rates comparing both the krw (Korean won) and the cny (Chinese yuan or remimbi). Google and search here for jobs and compare the two. Most of us here in Korea stayig are either doing so because of being married to a local or because we got in long ago when things were better and held onto a good job through these bad times.
Korea really isn't worth it anymore. YOu'd be wise to move onto China. |
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