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Titus

Joined: 19 May 2012

Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 6:49 am Post subject:

Fox wrote:

We should all care about police killing Blacks because they're our fellow human beings. That said, it's clear Whites are the victims of police misconduct as well, which is why I'm uncomfortable with the way this whole issue has been racialized.

I don't understand why they so often go for the kill shot. You'd think a shot to a knee would be sufficient to incapacitate a threat. Often these cops go for the the head or heart.

bucheon bum

Joined: 16 Jan 2003

Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 7:08 am Post subject:

Fox wrote:

That said, it's clear Whites are the victims of police misconduct as well, which is why I'm uncomfortable with the way this whole issue has been racialized. Viewing police misconduct per se as the issue is the path towards a solution, while instigating racial tension will inevitably obstruct any progress down that path.

As much as I disdain Politico, here is an article written by a middle class white dude who lost his son due to a police shooting.

What I did After Police Killed My Son

Quote:

Our country is simply not paying enough attention to the terrible lack of accountability of police departments and the way it affects all of us—regardless of race or ethnicity. Because if a blond-haired, blue-eyed boy — that was my son, Michael — can be shot in the head under a street light with his hands cuffed behind his back, in front of five eyewitnesses (including his mother and sister), and his father was a retired Air Force lieutenant colonel who flew in three wars for his country — that’s me — and I still couldn’t get anything done about it, then Joe the plumber and Javier the roofer aren’t going to be able to do anything about it either.

Maybe this is what really happened to Wilson (kidding, probably not):

Quote:

They discovered that the officer who thought his gun was being grabbed in fact had caught it on a broken car mirror.

Anyway, the father busted his ass to get a law passed in WI last April:

Quote:

In April of this year we passed a law that made Wisconsin the first state in the nation to mandate at legislative level that police-related deaths be reviewed by an outside agency. Ten days after it went into effect in May, local police shot a man sleeping on a park bench 15 times. It’s one of the first incidents to be investigated under the new law.

WTF is a cop doing shooting a dude on a park bench 15 times??

Plain Meaning

Joined: 18 Oct 2014

Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 12:36 pm Post subject:

There are approximately 1,000 homicides by police each year. Some are justifiable.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/another-much-higher-count-of-police-homicides/

Quote:

By the narrowest measure possible — in which we give police every benefit of the “cause of death” doubt in incidents where they Tasered or restrained suspects – 85 percent of the sampled incidents were the sort of police killings the government might be expected to keep track of. If we include other arrest-related deaths (and they’re included in Bureau of Justice figures), then 93 percent of incidents qualified as police killings.

Applying these percentages to the total count at Killed By Police would imply that officers acting in the line of duty have killed in the neighborhood of 1,250 to 1,350 people since May 1, 2013. That’s about 1,000 deaths per year.

Fox

Joined: 04 Mar 2009

Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:18 pm Post subject:

Titus wrote:

Fox wrote:

I don't understand why they so often go for the kill shot. You'd think a shot to a knee would be sufficient to incapacitate a threat. Often these cops go for the the head or heart.

That's what they're trained to do, aren't they? This purports to highlight some of the problems with the "just shoot them in the leg" notion. Being relatively unfamiliar with firearms I don't know how accurate it all is, but it sounds plausible. Really, if the police don't feel that lethal force is warranted, I'm not even sure they should be pulling out their guns in the first place.

It's an intrinsically horrible job. I could not be a police officer.

Plain Meaning

Joined: 18 Oct 2014

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:58 am Post subject:

Fox wrote:

Titus wrote:

Fox wrote:

I don't understand why they so often go for the kill shot. You'd think a shot to a knee would be sufficient to incapacitate a threat. Often these cops go for the the head or heart.

I could not be a black person in the United States. What an intrinsically degrading life experience that would be.

Plain Meaning

Joined: 18 Oct 2014

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:50 pm Post subject:

The case of Dontre Hamilton

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mikehayes/dontre-hamilton-autopsy?bftw

Quote:

The family of Dontre Hamilton, who was fatally shot 14 times earlier this year by a police officer in a Milwaukee park, have released a portion of the 31-year-old’s official autopsy report that they say provides a more accurate depiction of what happened seven months ago.

On April 9, Officer Christopher Manney confronted Hamilton after receiving a complaint that he was sleeping on a bench in the park. As Manney attempted to pat Hamilton down, an altercation between the two men ensued.

According to Manney, Hamilton took his baton during the scuffle and started hitting him on the head and neck. Moments later, Manney fatally shot Hamilton 14 times.

On Oct. 15, Manney was fired from the Milwaukee Police Department for improper use of a pat-down on a mentally ill individual.

According to the autopsy, seven of the shots that hit Hamilton had a downward trajectory, and one of the bullet wounds showed that Hamilton was shot in the back from behind.

The autopsy also showed “no stippling or unburned or burned gunpowder particles on [Hamilton’s] skin,” which the family’s lawyers say shows that Hamilton was shot from some distance.

The medical examiner’s account also says that Hamilton had bruises on the right side of this chin, scalp and arm.

Toxicology results also showed no traces of illicit drugs in Hamilton’s system.

Plain Meaning

Joined: 18 Oct 2014

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:54 pm Post subject:

Not a killing, but a brutal police beating followed by the seizure, and deletion of a video. But the video was already in the cloud.

http://www.news.com.au/world/denver-police-seize-tablet-delete-video-of-brutal-arrest-but-it-had-backed-up-to-the-cloud/story-fndir2ev-1227137812835

Quote:

THE Denver cops punched a man in the face and bounced his head off the pavement. They tripped his pregnant wife — and then saw they were being filmed.

...

The police version of the story is this:

A pair of plain-clothed police officers spotted a suspected drug dealer stick a white sock in his mouth when he noticed them approaching.

The officers then “assisted” the suspect — David Flores — out of his car before they “fell to the ground”. Two further officers, this time uniformed, arrived as backup.

The four officers then say they punched Flores up to six times in the face “in order to keep him from choking”. He was taken to hospital for his injuries.

His pregnant wife — Mayra — had to be tripped because officers were convinced she was about to kick them, their report states.
The seizure of the video footage? Not mentioned.
Frasier still has to present himself before police before they will address that one.

“We would love to talk with him (Frasier) if he has further information,” Denver commander Matt Murray told Fox 31. “We are not covering anything up. There is no cover up whatsoever, so let me just put that to rest. That’s irresponsible and baseless.”

Fox

Joined: 04 Mar 2009

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:06 pm Post subject:

Plain Meaning wrote:

I could not be a black person in the United States. What an intrinsically degrading life experience that would be.

Don't worry, Eddie Murphy has the solution.

Plain Meaning

Joined: 18 Oct 2014

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:01 pm Post subject:

Fox,

I can't access that link in the Land of Guns and Freedom.

Here's How Police Unions and Arbitrators Keep Abusive Cops on the Street

Conor Friedersdorf wrote:

That's the classic template for police abuse: misbehaving cops are spared punishment by colleagues and bosses who cover for them.

There are, of course, police officers who are fired for egregious misbehavior by commanding officers who decide that a given abuse makes them unfit for a badge and gun. Yet all over the U.S., police unions help many of those cops to get their jobs back, often via secretive appeals geared to protect labor rights rather than public safety. Cops deemed unqualified by their own bosses are put back on the streets. Their colleagues get the message that police all but impervious to termination.

That isn't to say that every officer who is fired deserves it, or that every reinstated cop represents a miscarriage of justice. In theory, due process before a neutral arbiter could even protect blue whistleblowers from wrongful termination. But in practice, too many cops who needlessly kill people, use excessive force, or otherwise abuse their authority are getting reprieves from termination.

So, as for police unions;

Should police unions collectively bargain to increase wages for police officers? YES

Should police unions work to represent police officers terminated or otherwise sanctioned for on-duty misconduct? MAYBE NOT SO MUCH

bucheon bum

Joined: 16 Jan 2003

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:47 am Post subject:

I'm against all public sector unions. And I say that as a public sector employee (albeit not a cop nor fire fighter). But that's diverging from the topic, sorry.

Plain Meaning

Joined: 18 Oct 2014

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:25 am Post subject:

bucheon bum wrote:

I'm against all public sector unions.

And I say that as a public sector employee (albeit not a cop nor fire fighter).

But that's diverging from the topic, sorry.

So, as for police unions;

Should police unions collectively bargain to increase wages for police officers? MAYBE NOT SO MUCH

Should police unions work to represent police officers terminated or otherwise sanctioned for on-duty misconduct? HELL NO!

Plain Meaning

Joined: 18 Oct 2014

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:51 pm Post subject:

The Case of Eric Garner

Eric Garner Case: NYPD Officer Not Indicted in Choke Hold Death

Quote:

A grand jury in Staten Island has decided not indict New York City Police Officer Daniel Pantaleo in relation to the death of Eric Garner, a man that Pantaleo was seen on video putting in an apparent choke hold in July, according to city officials and lawyers for Garner's family.

The grand jury's decision means that there will not be criminal charges in the case, but NYPD Commissioner Bill Bratton said earlier today that there may be up to three other investigations into the incident that could lead to a civil case or federal charges.

The remarkable aspect here is that the officers killed Garner on video. NYPD banned the chokehold approximately 20 years ago.

I'm guessing everyone who riots as a result of this decision will be indicted, and probably convicted thereafter.

Edit: You can find the video online. I'll just post a link to the photo: http://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/eric-garner-police-brutality-ramsey-orta.jpg?w=640

Last edited by Plain Meaning on Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:07 pm; edited 1 time in total

Plain Meaning

Joined: 18 Oct 2014

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:05 pm Post subject:

Eric Garner’s Death Won’t Even Show Up in FBI Stats on Police Homicides

Quote:

Law enforcement officers killed more than 400 people in 2013.

But that number is known to be inaccurate. The FBI tracks justified homicides by police, but participation is voluntary. There is no actual national tracking of deaths at the hands of police unless they are to determined to be crimes and therefore show up in violent crime statistics. We don’t have a real, credible number of how many people the police kill every year.

You will see upthread a better estimate is about 1,000 police killings per year over the last two years.

Quote:

The State of New York does not participate in the reporting program, according to the Journal, and therefore 68 homicides by New York City Police Department officers between the years 2007 to 2012 are not even in the FBI’s count. It also means that Eric Garner’s choking death at the hands of officers from the NYPD will not show up in the numbers next year when the FBI releases its statistics for 2014.

Plain Meaning

Joined: 18 Oct 2014

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:20 am Post subject:

Titus would call this a narrative: Peter King: Eric Garner was Fat

Peter King wrote:

You had a 350-pound person who was resisting arrest, If he had not had asthma and a heart condition and was so obese, he almost definitely would not have died from this.

The police are not responsible for anything they do or any choices they make. The police had to arrest this man, had to do it in the way they did (even though the police department prohibited chokeholds), and its not their fault if he died. After all, the man's health was imperfect.

Plain Meaning

Joined: 18 Oct 2014

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:41 am Post subject:

Reason: Eric Garner's Murder Reveals the Ugly Core of Government and Law Enforcement

Quote:

Here we have Garner, a guy allegedly selling loosies—single cigarettes—which are a perfectly legal product. Why is he supposedly selling loosies? Because New York officials inflict on their long-suffering subjects the highest cigarette tax in the country at at $4.35 per pack, plus another $1.50 levied in the city itself. It's not a popular tax, with smuggled smokes making up 60.9 percent of the market. So the powers that be unleash the cops to enhance revenue by tracking down shipments of smuggled cigarettes and, on occasion, putting the occasional small-time street vendor in an illegal chokehold.

Which is to say, Eric Garner was murdered for the purposes of revenue enhancement.

Tea Partyers and Occupiers unite.

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