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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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Smithington
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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 Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:33 pm Post subject: Robert Shapiro b'slaps Korea. |
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I wonder what's behind this. Whatever it is, it's about time Korea received some push back. Time to grow up, Korea.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEvDZODg2WA |
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andrewchon
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Location: Back in Oz. Living in ISIS Aust.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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Robert Shapiro just served some peanuts incorrectly. $  $ |
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PigeonFart
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Interesting video. Thanks. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:40 am Post subject: |
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He makes some very good points on press freedom as there is still progress to be made there, conveniently glances over certain facts in the Japan-Korea relationship but also does a tad too much preaching from the hill top...
I am sure this will go over very well.
Last edited by PatrickGHBusan on Thu Jan 29, 2015 4:45 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 4:13 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| He makes some very good points |
right.
1. Japan already paid massive reparations to Korean victims but the money was embezzled by the Korean government.
2. When Korea is the aggressor then they are quick to put their sins in the past and declare them ancient history. Hence they made economic deals with Vietnam despite the fact their troops committed grievous atrocities against Vietnamese civilians
3. But when Korea is the victim, then no amount of compensation, preferential treatment or apologies are ever enough for them to let bygones be bygones. (ie japan). |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 4:20 am Post subject: |
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Japan's Records on War Reparations
by Noguchi Hikaru
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Japan has not dodged any responsibility for peaceful relations. The general public seems to be ignorant of the fact that Japan has faithfully met, negotiated, and fulfilled rigorous demands on all war-time reparations. Negotiations for post-war reparations started in 1951 and continued until 1977. In all, 54 treaties and agreements were concluded.
Construction of such economic and social infrastructure in Asia would not have been possible without Japan's ODA. Why was there such a focusing of aid to Asia? It was shaped from an unspoken consensus and desire among the Japanese public, even though our legal obligations had been met, to re-build friendship with our Asian neighbors.
The negotiations and implementation of agreements were carried out with sincerity. Payments of reparations, which sometimes exceeded national welfare expenditure, started in 1955, lasted for 23 years, and ended in 1977. The amounts were huge for Japan, compared to the national economy of this period, but they were paid out in good faith. It should be emphasized that how all the money were spent were up to the discretion of the individual governments, beyond the dictates of Japan. Very often the governments chose not to use the funds to compensate individual losses, but instead to improve the general national economy or welfare.
The first country with which Japan concluded an agreement was Myanmar (Burma). A total of about 90 billion yen of indemnity and semi-indemnity were paid out to Myanmar, which was about 9 per cent of Japan's budget. When agreements were concluded with the Philippines, in 1956, Japan's national budget was a little over one trillion yen. Indemnity and semi-indemnity promised to the Philippines totaled 27% of that budget. Similarly, when Korea and Japan reached an agreement in 1965, Japan agreed to pay 180 billion yen (500 million dollars) indemnity and aid. Looking from Korea's point of view, this amount was 1.45 times Korea's national budget, and 3.8 times its foreign reserves. Most of this money was used by the Korean government for the nation's modernization. Korea says that it contributed to 20 per cent of its economic growth between 1966 and 1975, and 8 per cent annually to cover its trade deficit. From 1975, Korea also started compensations to individual citizens for personal losses during the war. However, on the whole, the Korean government chose to use the resources for national prosperity over compensation to private citizens.
http://www.jiyuushikan.org/e/reparations.html |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:08 am Post subject: |
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| Chaparrastique wrote: |
| 1. Japan already paid massive reparations to Korean victims but the money was embezzled by the Korean government. |
Embezzle is probably the wrong word, since that implies wasted money going into some guys account. Redirected might be better. Most of it was used to develop Korea, unlike other countries that received huge chunks of money from other countries. |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| Redirected might be better. Most of it was used to develop Korea,. |
Well then Koreans should stop claiming that Japan has not apologized or tried to make ammends for wartime atrocities. They have.
The problem is that Korea is forever stuck in a victim mentality. Part of it is that they are status and hierarchy-obsessed, they also view everything through the prism of race.
Thus the fact that another race subjugated them for so long pushes all of their buttons all at once to the point that they can never view the situation objectively. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 2:13 am Post subject: |
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| Chaparrastique wrote: |
| Well then Koreans should stop claiming that Japan has not apologized or tried to make ammends for wartime atrocities. They have. |
They may have apologized, but they haven't made amends. For starters they should teach every single Japanese student that they invaded continental Asia for their own greedy reasons, not to 'help' the rest of Asia. Kind of like what the Germans do with their youth. |
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motiontodismiss
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:02 am Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| Chaparrastique wrote: |
| Well then Koreans should stop claiming that Japan has not apologized or tried to make ammends for wartime atrocities. They have. |
They may have apologized, but they haven't made amends. For starters they should teach every single Japanese student that they invaded continental Asia for their own greedy reasons, not to 'help' the rest of Asia. Kind of like what the Germans do with their youth. |
Actually, I don't know about the rest of Asia but Korea at the time was on the brink of failure and was going to be taken over by someone. Only a matter of when, how and by whom. |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:28 am Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
They may have apologized, but they haven't made amends. For starters they should teach every single Japanese student that they invaded continental Asia for their own greedy reasons, not to 'help' the rest of Asia. |
Does Korea teach its youth that they massacred defenceless villagers en masse in Vietnam?
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Korean forces massacred inhabitants of several villages in the central highlands in the mid- to late 1960s, the height of foreign intervention. Under orders from commanders, the young conscripts followed a take-no-prisoners playbook. In one massacre, in Binh Tai, they warned all inhabitants to flee the hamlet, then set homes ablaze and opened fire indiscriminately on the residents who tried to escape, according to Korean veterans and Vietnamese survivors. In other instances, such as in Son Tinh and Tay Vinh, villagers were rounded up and executed.
The vicious tactics kept the troops safe from Communist insurgents, who, dressed like civilians, could launch sneak attacks and secretly influence entire villages. Tens to hundreds of villagers perished in each episode.
..unlike Japan, the South Korean government has not formally recognized this chapter of its history as regrettable. “Such intentional, organized and systemized civilian massacres by the Korean army is impossible,” defense ministry spokesman Kwon Kihyeon told GlobalPost. “If such an incident did exist, it would have been exposed and made public a long time ago.”
“The [Republic of Korea] fought in Vietnam to stop the communization of a free South Vietnam. Since our army executed our mission under strict rules, there was no sexual exploitation of Vietnamese women,” he added.
Part of the problem, say experts, is that a dearth of historical documentation means Korean involvement tends to get scant recognition. American and Vietnamese researchers vigorously pursued revelations of the My Lai massacre and Washington’s misuse of toxic defoliants. But Korea was a dictatorship until the 1980s, and critical reporting was censored.
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/politics/130815/battle-the-dueling-war-crimes |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| Chaparrastique wrote: |
| Does Korea teach its youth that they massacred defenceless villagers en masse in Vietnam? |
Korean educators don't deny it, unlike many Japanese educators about their history. Politicians are different. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Chaparrastique wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| Redirected might be better. Most of it was used to develop Korea,. |
Well then Koreans should stop claiming that Japan has not apologized or tried to make ammends for wartime atrocities. They have.
The problem is that Korea is forever stuck in a victim mentality. Part of it is that they are status and hierarchy-obsessed, they also view everything through the prism of race.
Thus the fact that another race subjugated them for so long pushes all of their buttons all at once to the point that they can never view the situation objectively. |
Japan's apologies are less than full. Usually they are "Statements of regret" which carry different meaning in the diplomatic world. If Germany issued a "Statement of regret" over WWII, everyone would condemn them. Should people move on? Yes. But the fact remains that when you compare and contrast Japan and Germany's post WWII behavior and education, there is a drastic difference. People in Asia see that and it does not endear the Japanese government to them.
And we should remember that long after Robert Shapiro is gone and America has retreated from empire, Korea will still have to deal with Japan and rather than everyone being one big happy family, Japan, China, and Korea will return to their old rivalries. Telling Korea to get over it is like telling Iraq to get over Turkey because we are all allies now. Those alliances are temporary and out of convenience, not bound in blood and trust. Same with Japan and Korea. Ironically, Korea and Turkey are far more "real" allies than Japan and Korea. There's actual legitimate affinity in Korea for Turkey because of its actions in the Korean War and international partnerships and cooperation through the years. |
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Neil
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Location: Tokyo
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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Here's an analysis of how Japanese textbooks cover the wartime era, compared to neighboring countries, it shows that while being far from perfect, the books don't present Japanese history in the jingoistic, unapologetic way that most of their critics (most of whom I suspect are illiterate in Japanese and have not read the books) claim.
http://www.nippon.com/en/in-depth/a00703/
I do wonder if posters here have somewhat of a romantic view of their own history classes, inventing a hazy memory of a passionate "educator" ranting away about the injustices of the trail of tears, the stolen generation or the colonization of the Indian subcontinent depending on which western country one was educated in making everyone feel jolly guilty about stuff they had nothing to do with.
In reality your history lessons were probably much like the ones Japanese kids have, some boring old teacher rambling off a list of dates and events in order to get you ready for an exam, never once going off the script and offering an opinion for fear of offending parents. And it was only once you were in college or even well into adulthood and could choose for yourself what textbooks were worth reading that you developed opinions about the misdeeds of long dead men. |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
Japan's apologies are less than full. |
Really?
Seems to me that the Korean psyche is basically insatiable. The fact that nothing, ever, pleases you is symptomatic of a deeper malaise. You only know how to function within a framework of negativity. |
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