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ghostrider
Joined: 27 Jun 2011
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 Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:33 pm Post subject: Teacher Complains About How He's Treated in Japan |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbhdEF-Y_LM
He says that only about 1 to 2% of Japanese people treat him like a human being. It looks like some people in the comments section say that Korea is just as bad. Sometimes it's the little things- the subtle microaggressions that can wear you down. You start to notice a pattern after living here for a while. I've wondered how some people cope with living here long term. I think they learn to be happy living in their own little bubble- they've got a good job, good friends, and a good relationship. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:12 pm Post subject: Re: Teacher Complains About How He's Treated in Japan |
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| ghostrider wrote: |
| . You start to notice a pattern after living here for a while. I've wondered how some people cope with living here long term. I think they learn to be happy living in their own little bubble- they've got a good job, good friends, and a good relationship. |
If you remove the word 'here'...
You start to notice a pattern after living for a while.
I've wondered how some people cope with living long term.
I think they learn to be happy living in their own little bubble- they've got a good job, good friends, and a good relationship.
Fairly accurate statement about life in general. |
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happyinhenan
Joined: 01 Feb 2015
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| Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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You are a foreigner everywhere bar your own country, and if you stick out as an obvious foreigner - the small minded amongst them will give you verbal abuse.
When I was in Ghana, I was called 'Obroni' and that was to my face, some people were very nice, some were jerks, some would try to overcharge or rip me off (well, that often quite a lot actually) and some would give me special treatment. Not too different from how it is in Thailand to be honest.
If you are actually left alone to go about your business then I wouldn't say that was such a bad deal actually. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 12:17 am Post subject: |
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| I couldn't watch the video through. The only thing I think I would ever use that video for is as an example of bad delivery. |
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andrewchon
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Location: Back in Oz. Living in ISIS Aust.
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:39 am Post subject: |
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1. If he's treated like a human being in Japan, he'd like it even less.
2. He has to understand that 90% Japanese people feel that he is above them. They are trying hard to not displease him. He is like a pretty girl alone at a bar because all the guys are thinking they're not in-her-league.
3. He has to learn that he is a gaijin and has to act like one. That may not be what he wants or capable of but he'll never be a nihonjin. Like LeBron James tweeted lately: FIT-OUT, not FIT-IN. |
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joelove
Joined: 12 May 2011
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| I think the guy expresses a common weariness with living in quite a foreign land for a long time. He feels like he's seen as a "pet" of Japanese friends. He gets tired of being ignored and people directing their attention to his girlfriend instead even though he's the one talking, and I'm guessing his Japanese is pretty good after ten years. Happens to lots of expats after a while, things can just wear ya down. |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 6:21 pm Post subject: Re: Teacher Complains About How He's Treated in Japan |
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| ghostrider wrote: |
He says that only about 1 to 2% of Japanese people treat him like a human being. |
Koreans will treat you as a human being if they have previously interracted with a foreign person.
But that's only a small percentage. Most Koreans over the age of 30 still view you as some sort of monster and all they have to go on is media perceptions and ridiculous stereotypes. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| It's funny, my attitude when I go into a shop in Korea with my wife is I'm quite happy for her to do all the talking and stand there like a lemon. Doesn't bother me a bit, in fact I see having a Korean with me who does all the boring interacting as an advantage. She does too when we go to the UK. Different strokes for different folks I guess. |
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PigeonFart
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="edwardcatflap"]It's funny, my attitude when I go into a shop in Korea with my wife is I'm quite happy for her to do all the talking and stand there like a lemon. Doesn't bother me a bit, in fact I see having a Korean with me who does all the boring interacting as an advantage. She does too when we go to the UK. Different strokes for different folks I guess.[/quote]
I think your situation is a little different. You seem happy to take a back seat and let your wife do the talking. Fair enough.
But the guy in Japan is actively starting the interaction (even speaking Japanese) yet doesn't often get a direct response. The clerks ignore him and answer to the Japanese person accompanying him. If that happened all the time i can see why he'd be miffed (annoyed). |
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SeoulNate
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
Location: Hyehwa
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| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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pewpew video about Japanese/Koreans acting like.. well.. Japanese/Koreans.
No offense, but the whole, "I feel like I'm being used by my 'friends'" is pretty similar to two things:
1. The way that most Japanese/Koreans treat any acquaintance, no matter the color of their skin.
2. The way we also treat someone when we want something from them.
It isn't different from what happens in any country any day of the week. It just feels much more pronounced here due to a number of factors, but probably mostly due to loneliness, homesickness etc.
Anyone who would complain about this crap would also have to take a close look at themselves and ask how many times they have used their Korean 'friends' to help out with various business/lifestyle transactions. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| It's funny, my attitude when I go into a shop in Korea with my wife is I'm quite happy for her to do all the talking and stand there like a lemon. |
According to this dude (who calls himself a "syndicated columnist" in the world famous Korea Times), not knowing how to speak Korean is a form of racism:
[F]oreigners, particularly of the Western country variety, haven't upgraded very much in the time since last I wrote on expats behaving badly.
I occasionally attend a writers' workshop in Seoul from time to time. At the end of the workshop, one of the writers invited everyone to a hiking club sponsored by Koreans, where the hiking would be conducted all in Korean. No one wanted to attend. Speaking in Korean proved far too worrisome a task.
There are chat rooms and online blogs of expatriates working and living in Korea. If you are intrepid enough, venture to some of them. Too often, you'll find a litany of complaints and criticisms worthy of a documentary decrying racism.
Some of the language on these sites is so colorful, so foul, I can't repeat it here or anywhere. The sites are useful, however, in exposing what I already knew was at the heart of some of those who participate in these forums.
These are but a few of the rank, racist comments I've experienced whispered, or not, online, and off, interspersed throughout the expatriate community: "Squinty-eyed." "Garlic-breath.""Rice-pickers.""These yellow demons." "I don't know how to speak Korean and I've lived here forever." Charming.
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2014/09/621_145643.html
It's kind of weird he is putting not knowing how to speaking Korean after living in Korea a long time in the same category as referring to Koreans as yellow demons.
Korean is a hard as hell language, much more difficult than most realize.
In the earliest interview I saw with Simon and Martina, they said they feel very strongly that expats in Korean should be able to speak Korean as a matter of respect to the locals. Now, seven years later, their Korean level is absolute garbage. (They may claim to be decent at Korean, but they are really not.)
The language is not easy at all. For one, adults (generally speaking...I realize there are rare exceptions) can't learn languages as well as children. As far as languages go, (despite what you may have heard) Korean is at the level of hardest language in the world. (If it's not the toughest language, it's pretty damn close.)
How many long term Western expats are even halfway decent at conversing in Korean? Very, very few. So rare is it in fact that just being able to speak Korean is enough to get on Korean TV, no other skills, talents, or expertise necessary.
It takes a lot of study to get good at Korean. The opportunity cost is very, very high. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Well this topic has been done to death but for a lot of the guys like the syndicated columnist you referred to above, or Simon and Martina, Korea is the one foreign country they've lived in and they like the culture. The majority of the foreigners learning Korean in Korea will either go back to their own country or stay in Korea. As for me, TEFL is my career and I don't intend to do either. Currently working in my 8th country and made a token effort to learn the language in all of them except the one I'm in now. Needless to say none of that study did me any good in the long run, except maybe to show respect to the locals. To be honest these days I'm more interesting in furthering my career than gaining respect from the locals - everyone I work with speaks English - and if I've got any free time, it'll either be spent upgrading qualifications or making more money. |
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SeoulNate
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
Location: Hyehwa
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| Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
The language is not easy at all. For one, adults (generally speaking...I realize there are rare exceptions) can't learn languages as well as children.
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Zero research to back this up. Zero. It is a fallacy. All research done in the educational field points to adults actually being far superior to children in all aspects of learning, language included.
The ONLY thing that adults may miss out on by not learning language when they are young is certain aspects of pronunciation, which, by no means, are essential to fluent communication in any language.
Simply put, language learning boils down to two things:
Time
Motivation
Most teachers in here Korea lack one or both of these things to become fluent in the language. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| SeoulNate wrote: |
| All research done in the educational field points to adults actually being far superior to children in all aspects of learning, language included. |
Not true.
The younger the learner, the better they are at mimicking new sounds and adopting pronunciation. The brain is more open to new sounds and patterns in pre-adolescence, so it is very difficult for older language learners to speak without an accent.
What’s more, younger learners are more skilled at identifying subtle differences in sounds. This explains why adult learners of English have trouble with minimal pairs like pin and pen, or fries and flies.
Being able to accurately speak and hear the language is of paramount importance.
You think Korean is easy to pronounce? To make out what one is saying? It's not.
Almost everyone who has lived in Korea for twenty plus years can't speak the language. (I'm speaking about nearly every Western lifer I meet.) You think they haven't had sufficient time to learn the language? You think they don't want to be able to speak it? Give me a break. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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