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nick2124
Joined: 11 Jan 2010
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 Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:23 pm Post subject: working on a 6 month contract? |
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Hey there,
I'm interested in teaching in Seoul and I do meet the requirements (age, qualifications, nationality and so on) however I don't feel I can commit to a 12 month contract.
Is there any way I can work short-term (under 12 month) as I can only commit to a 6-9 month contract.
Thanks,
Nick |
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SeoulNate
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
Location: Hyehwa
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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If you are already in the country you can probably get something worked out with a Hakwon.
Outside of the country would be doubtful at best. |
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nick2124
Joined: 11 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks a lot for the reply. I'm in Australia (my home country) at the moment.
What sort of visa would you suggest? Can I arrive with a tourist/working holiday visa and then possibly look at having it changed to the correct visa so that I can teach legally?
I don't believe the working holiday visa allows me to teach from what I've read.
Nick |
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takethree
Joined: 20 Mar 2013
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:05 am Post subject: |
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6 month is rare. And the only visa available for English teachers is E-2. But yes, you can enter on a tourist visa and then if you land a job you can switch to E-2.
If you're really interested in coming, you need to start getting all your documents together. It will take a few months. Don't even bother coming/applying for jobs until you have everything, because recruiters won't give you any attention. |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 5:29 am Post subject: |
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You can always negotiate a 6 month contract but you'll have to be willing to give up something. Most likely you'll give up the plane ticket (possibly you'll get a one-way ticket home if you finish the 6 months) and you'll probably have to accept housing allowance instead of rent. The school won't want to sign a 1 year rental contract if they know you won't be around that long. You won't get severance either since that only kicks in after 12 months.
Beyond that, if you look good on paper and you're willing to negotiate salary, you'll probably find someone willing to hire you. If you come in person to look for work, your chances will increase a lot but as others have said, you'll have to have your paper work ready and in hand. In that case you'll have to do a visa run to Japan. Your employer might cover it but then definitely won't pay for a flight home.
The other thing you can do is just sign a 12 month contract and then quit after 6 months (or whenever you feel like you're finished). There is nothing illegal about it. Koreans do it all the time (as I'm sure Australians in Australia working for Australian companies do as well). |
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Sector7G
Joined: 24 May 2008
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 6:08 am Post subject: |
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| Troglodyte wrote: |
The other thing you can do is just sign a 12 month contract and then quit after 6 months (or whenever you feel like you're finished). There is nothing illegal about it. Koreans do it all the time (as I'm sure Australians in Australia working for Australian companies do as well). |
I have to admit I was thinking of this myself, although it would be kind of a crappy thing to do, going in knowing that was the plan from the start, regardless of who else has done it. So I am glad that you mentioned it first.
However, this action would be somewhat mitigated if the OP was to at least give the one month notice that most contracts call for. In fact, if the OP was to do that, he would likely be working under the terms of the contract anyway, so no one could really call him on it. |
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nick2124
Joined: 11 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Hmmm... what would be the penalties of breaking a contract? I know it's not the right thing to do mind you. |
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Sector7G
Joined: 24 May 2008
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| Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| nick2124 wrote: |
| Hmmm... what would be the penalties of breaking a contract? I know it's not the right thing to do mind you. |
Well, first of all, technically, you would only be "breaking" the contract if you left without giving the notice called for in the terms of the contract, which is typically one month.
Whether you give notice or not, the "penalty" would likely be the same - no outbound air fare reimbursement, and no bonus for completing the contract. If you left before six months they would probably want you to reimburse them for the inbound airfare. But giving notice would at least give the school a chance to find a replacement for you - which would be the right thing to do.
Let your conscience be your guide. |
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VetruvianPenguin
Joined: 15 Apr 2014
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| How would one already in the country go about negotiating a 6 month contract? Where should I look? I've been offered an extension with CDI which may be a good option, but teaching lessons that are not 3 hours long and getting public holidays sounds appealing. |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 2:24 am Post subject: |
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| Sector7G wrote: |
| Troglodyte wrote: |
The other thing you can do is just sign a 12 month contract and then quit after 6 months (or whenever you feel like you're finished). There is nothing illegal about it. Koreans do it all the time (as I'm sure Australians in Australia working for Australian companies do as well). |
I have to admit I was thinking of this myself, although it would be kind of a crappy thing to do, going in knowing that was the plan from the start, regardless of who else has done it. So I am glad that you mentioned it first.
However, this action would be somewhat mitigated if the OP was to at least give the one month notice that most contracts call for. In fact, if the OP was to do that, he would likely be working under the terms of the contract anyway, so no one could really call him on it. |
How is it a crappy thing to do? Or at least how it is more crappy then the company trying to convince you that you have obligations to them which contradict your legal rights? Where's the quid pro quo for asking employees to give 30 days notice that most places ask for? |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 2:31 am Post subject: |
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| Sector7G wrote: |
| nick2124 wrote: |
| Hmmm... what would be the penalties of breaking a contract? I know it's not the right thing to do mind you. |
Well, first of all, technically, you would only be "breaking" the contract if you left without giving the notice called for in the terms of the contract, which is typically one month.
Whether you give notice or not, the "penalty" would likely be the same - no outbound air fare reimbursement, and no bonus for completing the contract. If you left before six months they would probably want you to reimburse them for the inbound airfare. But giving notice would at least give the school a chance to find a replacement for you - which would be the right thing to do.
Let your conscience be your guide. |
Even if you didn't give 30 days notice you still wouldn't be "breaking the contract" you are "terminating the contract". That might just seem like a difference of wording but it's a profound difference. That clause for you to give 30 days notice (or whatever the employer tried to sneak in there) is null. It has no meaning at all unless something is being offered in exchange for that 30 days notice. The law trumps any legal contract and that law give you the right to quick on the spot if you so desire.
Legally there are no penalties. You probably won't get any contract finishing bonuses (in fact it's just about 100% certain that you won't). Depending on the employer, there's a good chance your boss will try to shaft you for whatever money is owed since your last payday. You can legally fight that and if you have time you'll almost certainly get your money. Maybe the court would only award you part of the money if you quit right after coming here and your boss had bought you a plane ticket over. Maybe. Since most people just want to leave and DON'T have the time, they simply leave after payday and write off the loss. The only other significant impact is that you'd have to leave the country within 14 days (or 30 days if you ask for it). |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 2:47 am Post subject: |
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| VetruvianPenguin wrote: |
| How would one already in the country go about negotiating a 6 month contract? Where should I look? I've been offered an extension with CDI which may be a good option, but teaching lessons that are not 3 hours long and getting public holidays sounds appealing. |
I recommend just going through the job ads that you find online. Most of them posted by agents/agencies. Tell them that you're already in the country and do a visa transfer (or have documents ready for a visa run) and that you can do interviews in person. I would also suggest pointing out that you are flexible about location or other stuff. After they reply that they have some jobs, tell them that the jobs look good but you're hoping for something that's only 6 months and wonder if the school would be willing to negotiate something (e.g. you take housing allowance and sort out your own accommodation, you don't need a return flight, etc.). Basically, if it isn't going to cost the school anything to hire you (other than a few Won for your paperwork) then they have nothing to lose from hiring you for 6 months (and in fact have something to gain). You could also try to bypass the recruiters by discussing this directly with the owner during the interview. |
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Sector7G
Joined: 24 May 2008
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 5:32 am Post subject: |
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| Troglodyte wrote: |
| Sector7G wrote: |
| Troglodyte wrote: |
The other thing you can do is just sign a 12 month contract and then quit after 6 months (or whenever you feel like you're finished). There is nothing illegal about it. Koreans do it all the time (as I'm sure Australians in Australia working for Australian companies do as well). |
I have to admit I was thinking of this myself, although it would be kind of a crappy thing to do, going in knowing that was the plan from the start, regardless of who else has done it. So I am glad that you mentioned it first.
However, this action would be somewhat mitigated if the OP was to at least give the one month notice that most contracts call for. In fact, if the OP was to do that, he would likely be working under the terms of the contract anyway, so no one could really call him on it. |
How is it a crappy thing to do? Or at least how it is more crappy then the company trying to convince you that you have obligations to them which contradict your legal rights? Where's the quid pro quo for asking employees to give 30 days notice that most places ask for? |
First, let's separate the legal/contractual part from the rest - giving at least two weeks notice is considered standard operating procedure for a variety of reasons, whether it's in the contract or not. Exceptions to this would be situations where the workplace has become unsafe, or the employee is being harassed and/or abused. But that is not the situation we are talking about. We are talking about someone knowing before they even take the job that they will not give notice. Leaving an employer in the lurch like that, especially in this case where it may be tough to quickly find another teacher, is a crappy thing to do - even you acknowledge this somewhat with your question "how is it more crappy?". Listen, I am almost always inclined to take the side of the teacher, but that question is beside the point.
| Troglodyte wrote: |
Even if you didn't give 30 days notice you still wouldn't be "breaking the contract" you are "terminating the contract". That might just seem like a difference of wording but it's a profound difference. That clause for you to give 30 days notice (or whatever the employer tried to sneak in there) is null. It has no meaning at all unless something is being offered in exchange for that 30 days notice. The law trumps any legal contract and that law give you the right to quick on the spot if you so desire.
Legally there are no penalties. |
Now let's separate repercussions/penalties from breaking/terminating the contract. Of course a person has a "right" to quit on the spot it they want - no one in this thread has suggested otherwise. But if the terms of a contract you willingly signed calls for you to give 30 days notice then there are two options if you want to leave early. 1)"Terminate" the contract by giving the notice called for in the terms of the contract, or 2)"break" the contract by not giving the notice called for in the terms of the contract. In the situation we are discussing, the repercussions would be the same, loss of bonus, airfare, etc. It's just up to the OP how he wants to conduct himself. |
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Sector7G
Joined: 24 May 2008
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:33 am Post subject: |
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| Troglodyte wrote: |
| Where's the quid pro quo for asking employees to give 30 days notice that most places ask for? |
Wouldn't it be the Dismissal Notice that is also in the contract?
The Employer should give at least 30 days notice of dismissal. Otherwise the Employer must pay the ordinary wages for at least thirty days.
http://www.efl-law.com/contracts.php |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 3:12 am Post subject: |
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| Sector7G wrote: |
| Troglodyte wrote: |
| Sector7G wrote: |
| Troglodyte wrote: |
The other thing you can do is just sign a 12 month contract and then quit after 6 months (or whenever you feel like you're finished). There is nothing illegal about it. Koreans do it all the time (as I'm sure Australians in Australia working for Australian companies do as well). |
I have to admit I was thinking of this myself, although it would be kind of a crappy thing to do, going in knowing that was the plan from the start, regardless of who else has done it. So I am glad that you mentioned it first.
However, this action would be somewhat mitigated if the OP was to at least give the one month notice that most contracts call for. In fact, if the OP was to do that, he would likely be working under the terms of the contract anyway, so no one could really call him on it. |
How is it a crappy thing to do? Or at least how it is more crappy then the company trying to convince you that you have obligations to them which contradict your legal rights? Where's the quid pro quo for asking employees to give 30 days notice that most places ask for? |
First, let's separate the legal/contractual part from the rest - giving at least two weeks notice is considered standard operating procedure for a variety of reasons, whether it's in the contract or not. Exceptions to this would be situations where the workplace has become unsafe, or the employee is being harassed and/or abused. But that is not the situation we are talking about. We are talking about someone knowing before they even take the job that they will not give notice. Leaving an employer in the lurch like that, especially in this case where it may be tough to quickly find another teacher, is a crappy thing to do - even you acknowledge this somewhat with your question "how is it more crappy?". Listen, I am almost always inclined to take the side of the teacher, but that question is beside the point.
| Troglodyte wrote: |
Even if you didn't give 30 days notice you still wouldn't be "breaking the contract" you are "terminating the contract". That might just seem like a difference of wording but it's a profound difference. That clause for you to give 30 days notice (or whatever the employer tried to sneak in there) is null. It has no meaning at all unless something is being offered in exchange for that 30 days notice. The law trumps any legal contract and that law give you the right to quick on the spot if you so desire.
Legally there are no penalties. |
Now let's separate repercussions/penalties from breaking/terminating the contract. Of course a person has a "right" to quit on the spot it they want - no one in this thread has suggested otherwise. But if the terms of a contract you willingly signed calls for you to give 30 days notice then there are two options if you want to leave early. 1)"Terminate" the contract by giving the notice called for in the terms of the contract, or 2)"break" the contract by not giving the notice called for in the terms of the contract. In the situation we are discussing, the repercussions would be the same, loss of bonus, airfare, etc. It's just up to the OP how he wants to conduct himself. |
Let me first say that if I had no reason to believe that the employer would react in an inappropriate way (e.g. dock my pay, fire me on the spot, throw a temper tantrum, etc.) then I would give at least 2 weeks notice and most likely 30 days. That would be aside from any legal or contractual obligation to do so.
BUT, even if someone did leave without advanced notice, it's still not breaking the contract because that part of the contract was null from the get-go. You can't sign away your right to leave the job whenever you like, even at a moments notice. The employer is also not allowed to make any deductions from your pay unless a court approves it. Even if you owe the school money, they can't legally take it from your paycheck. In the case where the school has paid for a flight over and the contract says that you'll pay it back if you leave before 6 months, then it's almost certain the the court will let the employer take that money from you (or part of it, depending on the judges mood, your circumstances at the school, the behavior of the employer, etc, etc.). In fact, in cases where the employer simply takes it without approval, the courts tend to find more in favor of the employee.
Breaking a contract is a legal matter where you can be taken to court over it.
You might be "breaking an agreement" or "breaking a promise" if you promised to stick around for a whole year no matter what happens. You wouldn't be breaking the contract though. |
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