Korean Job Discussion Forums

[creeper1]

[quote="World Traveler"]Shenzhen's air is really polluted. (So is nearby Hong Kong's.)
It's almost always always in the unhealthy range.
http://aqicn.org/city/shenzhen


Realistically for China, you wont get much better than this unless you are prepared to head out to the middle of nowhere.

So if you are happy with your situation in Korea then Id stay put.

[World Traveler]

As of now...

Shenzhen: 129
http://aqicn.org/city/shenzhen

Beijing: 89
http://aqicn.org/city/beijing/

London: 54
http://aqicn.org/city/london

Sydney: 46
http://aqicn.org/city/sydney

New York City: 20
http://aqicn.org/city/newyork/

Toronto: 17
http://aqicn.org/city/toronto

Vancouver: 9
http://aqicn.org/city/british-comlumbia/north-vancouver-second-narrows/

[World Traveler]

[lemak]

[happyinhenan]

To echo Lemak here, I wouldn't live in either Shanghai or Beijing to be honest. There are loads of great cities in China, it is all about doing ones homework and trial and error. The South is far too hot and humid but some people like that, I could never live there, I was offered a job on Hainan Island and they want me there now - a dream job for a lot of people but I would melt there. Shanghai and the east coast is nice but it rains too much for me. Here in Henan - I love the climate - dry summers and cool but not too cold winters and most things are here.

If you need Mexican food, cheese, western girls or a live rock music and that is what stands between you and a midnight run to the airport then stick to the big cities and you'll be fine. if you can adapt to tastes a bit more local then you will do fine everywhere else.

[happyinhenan]

[creeper1]

To counter these arguments

- No I don't have a criminal record. Perhaps you are unaware but Beijing and many other cities in China now require criminal record checks just like in Korea.

- I don't work for EF. If you work for EF then, yeah, you are going to be pretty miserable. EF seem to me worse than any hagwon in Korea but then I admit it's been a while since I worked for hagwons in Korea.

- I'm not worried about competition for jobs. China is vast and there are many opportunities (all be it usually with lower pay than in Korea)


Stick to the issue - cost of living in China - not as low as many think!

[lemak]

[matthews_world]

Everyone has their own stereotypes on China.

I avoided China for the majority of my Korean ESL career (10 years) due to several biases listed here: pollution, food safety, etc.

Most of these issues are generated from news sources and they tend to over-embellish, over-hype them in the media. Foreigners, in turn, get the thinking that the same must be true for the entire mainland.

Air pollution of 250 will just feel like a tingle on your cheeks and is barely noticeable. Seoul pollution generated by traffic trapped in by the buildings can be seen as a similar effect. I've never seen pollution in Shangai over the 300 mark. Beijing government put through a referendum to reduce it's pollution to become a green city and also passed measure to prohibit public smoking as of June 1st this year to curb health care costs. (30% of Chinese smoke.)

I teach at a university in Shanghai suburbs and lived here a year, 2 years in China and pollution isn't that bad. It might get hazy here but that's not so often. Weather patterns push the pollution through.

Someone mentioned why Chinese keep their windows open. One reason is that they believe that China is a developing country and that they don't want to waste energy as they are also being frugal. Another is that breathing stale air is not good for health.=) My wife never allows me to run the A/C to save money and Chinese usually never turn on heaters in the winter and wear warm pajamas and stocking caps inside to cover up. I'll usually be wearing 3 or 4 layers in the winter, however, I'm not in Beijing where it's super-cold like Korea and they use coal to heat.

What it boils down to is that China isn't the escape plan that it once was 4 or 5 years ago. They've lassoed all the 'cowboy' teachers without degrees and TEFL certificates and give working certificates to those with 4-year degrees (sometimes 3-years) and at least 1 or 2 years of verifiable experience. A lot of chain schools, EF etc. are more flexible and some aren't. It also depends on which province you stay in. You often teach in Guang-dong (southeastern humid and rainy China -Guangzhou, Shenzhen) without a work visa. Just do your research. Hong Kong is super-relaxed to teach in (need credentials) but I hate the muggy rain and the food there.

Many jobs now are requiring 120-hour TESOLs along with a degree and 1-2 years verifiable experience. Only a state or provincial un-apostilled police check printed off the internet is needed (in some instances not required).


Cost of living is about half of what it is in Korea if you start outside of a Tier 1 developed city such as Beijing, Shenzhen or Shanghai, for example.

As for the job search, you'll see some low-ball salaries but just take into consideration whether it's the country-side or the big city. Chinese wages are regulated by how expensive the city is -Tier 1, Tier 2, etc.

University jobs are frequent here because they pay the least.

I teach just 10-12 hours per week with no office hours so that gives me time to finally study for my GRE and finish my master's. I moonlight with privates. The pay rate for privates is basically standard between large and medium-sized cities at around 30,000-40,000won per hour which doesn't fluctuate much if you go to the countryside.

I had a full-time public school job in a Tier 2 city just outside of Shanghai with 40 hours of duty-time for a year and teaching privates in the afternoon and weekends and made as much as I was in S. Korea with expenses cut in half. However, I worked too much and got fat.

Finding a Chinese companion (partner, spouse, etc.) will help you to further cut costs. Just a cultural tip for the guys - most Chinese females will want their partners to foot their living expenses in a co-habitational relationship.

Anyway, the Chinese are more tolerable to foreigners and their culture is more progressive.

Just the way they do things in 100% backwards from what westerners are used to. Takes a while to get used to this. You have to be even more proactive in China and ask more questions to get the right information culturally on why they do things the way they do.

While Korean think of themselves as one culture, I like the fact that the Chinese are culturally diverse - Mongols, northwest, Guangdong, Sichuanese, Shanghaiese, etc.

After a year or more is when your learning-curve begins to dissipate and you become more comfortable.


If there's anything more from my sub-par all-encompassing post then I'll try to add more perspective and detail.

[creeper1]

Services are normally cheaper on the mainland - haircuts, taxis, massages, etc

Products such as food, milk and even shampoo seem to be cheaper in HK.

Thus you have the phenomenon of mainlanders shopping in HK.

See the linked article -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-32283440

It is a question of quality. I am sure you could get some cheap alcohol (baiju similar to soju) in mainland China but what this does to your liver is probably pretty bad.

[Chaparrastique]

[mandrews1985]

Having spent the last 2 years in China and the 2 years prior to that in Korea I'll give my 2 maos.

This information is based on purely on my experience and you have to remember laws differ from province to province as does every aspect of life in China.

Chinese University v Korean Hagwon

Teaching aspect:
In China I have 22 teaching periods and no office hours (1 teaching period = 45 mins) These are spread between 3 and half working days. All teachers in this university get a day off midweek and finish at 11.45am on Tuesdays. Every weekend is a 3 day weekend for me.

1 textbook a semester 2 lesson plans a week. 2 semesters of 16-17 weeks.

Complete free reign to do whatever I want in the classroom. No micromanagement at all. Terrible for new teachers and lazy teachers. It allows some 'teachers' to rock up with their laptop and just show movies all class.

20 students per class. 99.9% no behavioural issues, I actually look forward to teaching every single class.

---

In Korea it was a 40 hour work week between 2.30pm and 10.30pm, but most foreign teachers came in early to catch up on paperwork, or stay late. It was common for us foreigners to be in till about 11pm.

Anywhere between 15-20 textbooks a semester each with 15-20 lesson plans, although they started repeating textbooks so lesson plans you made 3 semesters ago would be applicable again. 4 semesters of 12 weeks per year. 100s of essays to mark every two weeks.

Extremely structured. All lesson plans were created in advance of the semester and we should follow it closely but with room for a bit of creativity. Good for new teachers that really have no idea what they're doing.

12-18 students per class. Can be a complete mixbag from actively disruptive, rude and racist to indifference 'oh another foreigner' to the nicest students ever. I had some classes that I would dread going to because nothing I did would make a difference and others that would applaud and thank me at the end of the class.

Financial aspect:

In China I started off on 7,700 RMB after all deductions and now I'm going into my 3rd year I earn 10,400 RMB after all deductions. No added responsibilities. I live on about 3,000 RMB comfortably a month. Sending home between 7,000-8,000 RMB 10 months a year.

4 months holiday a year, of which only 2 months is paid. Savings take a hit.

---

In Korea I started off on 2.1 million won, and ended up on 2.25 million won in the second year. Increased responsibility. I always aimed to live on 800,000 a month and tried to send 1.3 million home. The reality was I probably sent on average 1 million home a month for 12 months.

15 days spread out over the year. Usually the long weekends away, to Busan, Seoul would come out of my 'living allowance' of 800,000 won rather than my actual savings.

Life outside of work:

Casual racism is much less of a problem here in China. The only thing us foreigners get are the stares. Chinese employees in a shop or wherever, if they can speak English, will. Outside of the main shopping districts in Tier 1 cities there is very little English to be seen or heard.

Chinese girls are much more open to being in a relationship with foreigners but the norm is that they are in a relationship because it is going to lead somewhere.

0 male genitals seen flashed at me/the group of people I was with.
0 old men trying to take photos of the girls at the beach with us.

---

In Korea, I had a good life but the racism seemed to be much more intrusive. Father's pushing their children in my face while I'm doing a food shop. Kids finding it hysterical/amazing that there is a group of foreigners on the bus/subway/walking down the street. Random people touching my arm hair. I suppose this isn't racism it's more to do with their inability to understand personal space but would they do it to other Koreans? I don't think so.

My Korean girlfriend at the time kept the whole relationship as a big secret to her family and non-university friends. It was pretty clear from the outset this was not a long-term thing.

3 different male genitals flashed at me/the group of people I was with.
Every trip to the beach the old men start circling with their cameras.

Of course, I'm pretty certain the flashing of genitals and camera perverts were aimed more at the females in the group but nonetheless it has yet to happen in China.

Which is better:

They are both very different. I feel both have positives but the main deciding factor is what you want to get out of your experience. Most jobs in China will expect you to have a bit of experience and there will be little to no training. Korea was perfect for me to learn the trade, and learn fast. I worked at an academy that not only trained us but encouraged us to continually improve.

I can save more money per month in China and live a better lifestyle. However, the extra 2 months pay plus severance gives Korea the financial edge.

Since moving to China in 2013, I have improved my CV massively:

1. 3 years university experience (just started year 3)
2. Concurrently studying for an MA TESOL (expected to be completed March 2017)
3. CELTA
4. Business English and Young Learner certificates.

Having the time and money to improve my CV this quickly would not have been possible in Korea.

I love living in China, but for the most part I loved living in Korea too. Decide what is most important for you before you make the step either way. But something you should note for those saying you can have all the part time/private work you want in China. You can only work for the school that is attached to Foreign Expert Certificate. All other work is illegal. Schools do get raided by the police and teachers do get deported although it doesn't stop some teachers and probably 9/10 you'll be fine. But the police here aren't the little 'military service' kids you see playing dress up in Korea. These are scary, gun wielding police. I'd prefer not to do illegal work here and I would never recommend it.

[Mr. Pink]

Interesting to hear about cost of living.

I have been in China for 6 years now. IMO the cost of living has increased a lot. My rent went from 3500 to 6500. Although I am in a really nice apt compared to when I first got here, I really couldn't find anything 3 bedroom for less than 5500 that is furnished and halfway decent.

The cost of food is usually cheap, but in the past 6 years that has gone up too.

Overall though, this place is WAY cheaper than Korea.

My apt is like 42-50 pyung in size. In the Seoul area there is no way I could get it for what we pay (1.3mil) a month.

Our management fee is pretty high, but awesome what they do. Maybe we pay $80 a month. I was paying 2-3 times that in Korea for a small 20 pyung apt.

Cell phone fee is really low, like $20 a month with 800MB of 4G data.
Internet is really cheap like $20 a month for 50MB/s download speeds.
Taxi are really cheap like 1.25 or 1.50 for about 3km distance, but only like $20 or so for 40-50km distance.

Yes, the air is dirty, but it is getting much better since President Xi took over and put stricter laws in motion for heavy polluters.

The biggest thing for me is I don't feel the Xenophobia I feel in Korea. Korea is like a small town where no one really gets out. The thinking is slow to change. China is like a massive cosmopolitan city where new thinking is always going on.

I love Korea, but really I hate the way they are so insular about the world and about foreigners in general. Maybe that could also be because most foreigners in Korea are either ESL teachers or US Military. In China, most foreigners are professionals of some sort. Let's say business people, as they are here on company business and with company support. Others are here to support those business people like teachers at international schools, or doctors/nurses at international clinics and hospitals. The vibe is just a whole lot different when you meet foreigners here, at least I feel that, and it makes a difference for how comfortable life can be socially.

China is massive. Like someone said, there is geography here for everyone. If you like beaches and hot weather, Hainan is awesome. If you like hot summers and damp winters, Shanghai is for you. There is a mix in between. I am up north and I love it because it is dry and hardly has rain or snow. compared to Korea, the weather is really awesome.

Also the cities are so different. I honestly don't get those who say they would never work in Shanghai. Anyone would work anywhere if the conditions were right, like salary/benefits and good working environment. I always say i wouldn't work in Beijing. I wouldn't unless my salary was 6 figures. But for 6 figures with housing included, I could definitely stomach a few years there to stuff up the retirement fund.

To those thinking of making the jump, do some research. Be prepared to be screwed if you don't. However, if you get a good job, you'll probably never leave here.

[isitts]

[Fallacy]