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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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 Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Bongotruck wrote: |
The government, in their infinite wisdom, ruled that old people get the subway for free. That is without giving Korail any money in exchange.
Now we all pay for it in higher fares and get guilt tripped for not giving a seat to a nonpaying customer.
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Or everyone could drink one less beer during the week and have everything covered. For the service it provides, the price of the subway is very reasonable. |
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Korail is a public enterprise. And the subway is a public service. I don't see much issue with giving seniors free rides, or discounts. I'm not sure what the cut-off age is now, but perhaps they should raise it a few years.
Also, most public transport systems is heavy subsidized by the government. There are only a hand-full of public transport systems in the world that turn a profit, and even they are at least partially subsided by the government. It's a public service, intended to aid as much of the population as possible.
Last edited by jvalmer on Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:40 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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We had this discussion the last time fares went up. I'm on record as saying the elderly should get a hefty discount but shouldn't ride for free. (FYI foreign seniors get no discount.)
A person who can go hiking all day in the best outdoor clothes money can buy can pay a bit, especially for a reserved seat that they obviously don't need.
With seats reserved for the elderly, the infirm, the pregnant and who knows who else space on the trains is so limited it's as if they're asking you to pay to not ride the subway.
As for those arguing inflation, oil prices and thus the cost of electricity is down. And let's not forget the new lines they're building and all the escalators and elevators they're putting in, chiefly for the elderly.
And then all the "improvements" being made, although I do wish they 'd spend a little on changing the poems in the screen doors. How many times can you read the same crappy poem?
Last edited by atwood on Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:40 am; edited 1 time in total |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| radcon wrote: |
| I was just in the USA and Walmart was selling 2 liter bottles of Coca Cola for $1. I couldn't believe it. |
Right- (unlike in Korea) inflation in the U.S. is (and has been) really low. Your conspiracy theorist prediction/assumption about the U.S. government printing money until it becomes nearly worthless didn't come to pass. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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Generally, wages do. But it doesn't have to, there is no law requiring it too. But you'll notice when wages are taken into account across a wide variety of industries, that the trend lines usually will be similar with GDP growth.
Don't get angry because the industry you a have chosen to work in hasn't followed it. |
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jazzmaster
Joined: 30 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:30 am Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
Generally, wages do. But it doesn't have to, there is no law requiring it too. But you'll notice when wages are taken into account across a wide variety of industries, that the trend lines usually will be similar with GDP growth.
Don't get angry because the industry you a have chosen to work in hasn't followed it. |
"Real wage growth averages less than 1 percent a year over the past decade even as the economy averaged brisk 3.7 percent growth after adjusting for inflation."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/05/us-southkorea-economy-employment-idUSKBN0M02FM20150305
Seems we're not alone, so I expect you'll be expressing the same "Don't get angry" sentiments to all your Korean friends and family, in the same condescending terms, regarding their frustration at prices being raised. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:21 am Post subject: |
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| jazz master wrote: |
| Real wage growth averages less than 1 percent a year over the past decade even as the economy averaged brisk 3.7 percent growth after adjusting for inflation." |
Well, if wages have been going up after adjusting for inflation, that's not bad. It's an obviously good thing, regardless of the amount. (If "real wages" stayed the same- as in the case for Americans- that means things would be just as good as before.)
How are wages for NETs after adjusting for inflation? Going down.
"Real Wages for NETs down 40% Over the Last Decade" |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:53 am Post subject: |
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| jazzmaster wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
Generally, wages do. But it doesn't have to, there is no law requiring it too. But you'll notice when wages are taken into account across a wide variety of industries, that the trend lines usually will be similar with GDP growth.
Don't get angry because the industry you a have chosen to work in hasn't followed it. |
"Real wage growth averages less than 1 percent a year over the past decade even as the economy averaged brisk 3.7 percent growth after adjusting for inflation."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/05/us-southkorea-economy-employment-idUSKBN0M02FM20150305
Seems we're not alone, so I expect you'll be expressing the same "Don't get angry" sentiments to all your Korean friends and family, in the same condescending terms, regarding their frustration at prices being raised. |
It's not the percentage, it's the trend line you look at. The lines will probably be similar.
Yes it's frustrating, and it doesn't help people expect lower prices, and companies respond by lowering costs. Which in turn can affect jobs. |
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jazzmaster
Joined: 30 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| jazzmaster wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
Generally, wages do. But it doesn't have to, there is no law requiring it too. But you'll notice when wages are taken into account across a wide variety of industries, that the trend lines usually will be similar with GDP growth.
Don't get angry because the industry you a have chosen to work in hasn't followed it. |
"Real wage growth averages less than 1 percent a year over the past decade even as the economy averaged brisk 3.7 percent growth after adjusting for inflation."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/05/us-southkorea-economy-employment-idUSKBN0M02FM20150305
Seems we're not alone, so I expect you'll be expressing the same "Don't get angry" sentiments to all your Korean friends and family, in the same condescending terms, regarding their frustration at prices being raised. |
It's not the percentage, it's the trend line you look at. The lines will probably be similar.
Yes it's frustrating, and it doesn't help people expect lower prices, and companies respond by lowering costs. Which in turn can affect jobs. |
Depends how you define similar. Have real wages and the economy both been increasing? Yes. But the economy has been increasing at almost 4 times the rate of wages in the last decade. Similar is not a word I would use in this case. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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| jazzmaster wrote: |
| Seems we're not alone, so I expect you'll be expressing the same "Don't get angry" sentiments to all your Korean friends and family, in the same condescending terms, regarding their frustration at prices being raised. |
Adjusted for inflation, wages for Koreans are going UP (even as they work less hours than before).
Adjusted for inflation, wages for NETs are going DOWN (even as they work MORE hours than before).
Do you see the difference? They are not same same. |
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jazzmaster
Joined: 30 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
Adjusted for inflation, wages for Koreans are going UP (even as they work less hours than before).
Adjusted for inflation, wages for NETs are going DOWN (even as they work MORE hours than before).
Do you see the difference? They are not same same. |
I'm not replying to you. I was replying to JValmer. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Names are irrelevant. We're discussing a general idea. Just so everyone's clear, real wages for Koreans are going up while real wages for NETs are going down. |
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jazzmaster
Joined: 30 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| Names are irrelevant. We're discussing a general idea. Just so everyone's clear, real wages for Koreans are going up while real wages for NETs are going down. |
We're not discussing anything. I was replying to Jvalmer. I discussed nothing with you. |
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Bongotruck
Joined: 19 Mar 2015
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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Seoul metro thought they were going to make a mint when they extended the line to Cheonan. Instead they ran up a huge deficit. It turned out it was too slow and commuters continued to ride the bus or ktx.
A majority of the passengers were elderly people going to Seoul bc the food in the soup kitchen in Seoul was better. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| jazzmaster wrote: |
| We're not discussing anything. I was replying to Jvalmer. I discussed nothing with you. |
Hey man, it's a group discussion board.
You made a (false/specious) statement. I refuted it. That is all.
"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt |
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