Korean Job Discussion Forums

[thetawnyman]

I have had similar problems - unfortunately the law says that your contract must be for 365 days. If your contract is for 364 and you don't renew then you are SOL.

[alongway]

[Troglodyte]

[Weigookin74]

This kids is why you make sure it's in the contract and not just a verbal asurance. Never ever accept a verbal promise unless it gets written into the contract. Never sign a contract without reading. In this case if you were taking over, you would write in "John teacher is taking over another teacher's contract. Because of this, he is entitled to his annual severance even though he has only worked 360 days instead of the standard 365." You either both sign or you don't. If the boss doesn't sign it, tell him to ef off and go somewhere's else. Either take it or don't. Verbal promises don't mean anything here and increasingly in the west they aren't meaning anything there anymore either.

[Alias77]

Just to keep things updated:

I wish to remind those reading that I said on page 1: "Interestingly, out of the 5 years I've worked after-school programs, they never have a 365 day schedule. I have documented proof that" I worked on average only 50 weeks, due to varying reasons. Sometimes the contracts went by calendar date and sometimes they didn't.

I still received the severance every year, which should set a legal precedent for my case. After-school programs are different than hogwans in terms of calendar date contracts. Having said that, this last contract's conditions were essentially the same as all the previous years. So it shouldn't have been a problem, except for the worm-tongued manager in the middle. However, getting contracts more custom tailored is something to think about for future dealings.

I was ready to file my case with the labor board on Wednesday, but could not because there is a 14 day waiting period after employment ends. I am fine tuning my approach and will file as soon as legally possible. After checking with a labor lawyer, preliminary conversations revealed that my employer may have also broken the law in other areas I was unaware of.

I will update when I have more to add. Thanks again to those who have contributed.

[Alias77]

It's about time for an update. I have to say that this has been a total f'ng drag from the beginning. Tomorrow is probably going to suck.

So, from where I left off in the story, we did in fact pay a lawyer to write a 15 page document breaking down the explanation, citing legal violations and court case precedents. The total number of documents we supplied was more than 80 pages. I felt quite confident about the strength of my position going in. There was an established pattern of employment history and severance payments.

However, from the moment we arrived, the labor board investigator was rude and acted like he didn't have time for us. He made negative remarks throughout the proceeding, including insults, and verbally questioned our level of preparedness when my company showed up with legal documents of their own.

I barely speak Korean and this conversation was beyond anything that I could understand. I was watching body language and listening to the tone of their voice. It sucked not being able to leap in and face off with these guys. My understanding is that the labor board is meant to protect people like me, but our investigator showed little to no interest in doing so. I had to wait for my wife to handle our position, which I trust her to do, but there was no time for her to stop and explain in the midst of the high pressure of the meeting. The company representative also said something rude, but she snapped back at him. However, walking on eggshells, we have had no clue what to do about this investigator who had obviously made a pre-judgement before we even left the meeting.

*When you work for a company in Korea for more than 2 years, they are making a choice to keep you as an employee with full rights and priveledges. In fact, there are further details that I've never heard of until now. If you work for the same company for more than 2 years, you are also entitled to additional vacation days that accumulate for each additional year. Korean law also says you do not get vacation days in your first year. I was not aware of this and it was probably the heaviest punch that I landed against the company, because they clearly broke the law in this regard. I neither received the extra vacation days nor monetary compensation. That two weeks, 1 summer, 1 winter rule is garbage if you stay with the same company for more than 2 years.

*In September of 2013, the severance laws changed as some of you may know. I heard a tiny blip about it back then, but the company told me not to worry about it and that foreign teachers would still get their severance. In actuality, the company must hold all severance payments until you are no longer an employee. And that's where they created legal trickery to circumvent the law and they lied to me.

I was given a document to sign that essentially ended my employement with the company, which was incorrectly explained to me and held over my head as a means to getting my severence payment. From the explanation I got, I thought it was related to end of the contract taxes and accounting stuff. The document was written totally in Korean. Of course I asked for an explanation. I couldn't have known that the horrible woman that presented me with the paper lacked both the integrity and the English skills to explain to me, in truth, what the document meant. Further, she's probably too dumb to know. This was a system made by design with legal knowledge. Even had I brought it home to my wife to read, there was no reason not to sign it, because it was in order to get my severance. Knowing that it could be used in a future way to allow the company to abuse the situation was unforseeable without taking the paper to a lawyer, which seemed disproportionate to the situation. However, it didn't stop the labor board investigator from criticizing us.

*The company planned on foreigners falling into this trap and basically throwing away rights, money, and vacation days that we are not aware of. If your company is paying you severance at the end of the year and you continue to work for them, they are currently breaking the law unless you are also getting caught in the same kind of legal trickery that I was. By signing this paper, I was creating breaks in my employment history, which is how they manipulated the facts to say they were not responsible for my severance - but my yearly severance was held over my head as incentive to sign.

So, in conclusion, the rude investigator suggested that we try to "negotiate". I was shocked when the company called and I knew they were going to haggle for a lower amount than the total claim. I started at 15% lower than my full claim, because I didn't feel nearly as confident because of the investigator. The company guy scoffed and that was the end of it. No return offers, no haggling.

My wife has slept horribly for weeks now, because she can't stop thinking about this BS situation and how to fight it. Obviously, in western countries, this document would never hold up. Her last move, which she has hesitated over due to conflicting advice from various business and legal professionals, is to write a negative complaint on the labor board website about the investigator's lack of professionalism in hopes that the case might be re-assigned...but it could also backfire and he could summarily find against me. At this point, I don't expect to see any money. If there is a chance to prosecute the company for the laws they did violate, I might have to opt for that.

Tomorrow is the supposed conclusion meeting at the labor board. I'll share the ending later.

Sorry for the long entry. It takes time to explain, but if it helps someone else I prefer to post it. I've been here 8 years and I've never heard or read anything that would have prepared me for this.

[Alias77]

I am going to try and wrap this up today. It is my goal to share what I have learned so that others may benefit from the knowledge. I will tell the story first and then post a list of salient legal points that everyone should know when signing contracts. I don't intend to write any further public posts on my particular case. Sorry for the long read.

My understanding of things has evolved since this situation began. Some of these circumstances are based around the differences of working a non-traditional job that does not equal a 365 day work year, like after-school programs.

Some are not.

In any case, I didn't know about these things and it's been an awful experience that has wasted a lot of time, energy, and emotion on trying to fix something that happened in the past, instead of working on the present or future.

Resuming the story:

In the final meeting at the labor board, new facts were revealed. It was only my wife and I meeting with the investigator. The investigator had time to thoroughly review all the documentation by then and we expected him to summarily dismiss my case. I should mention that his attitude was notably improved at this meeting, although I still would not describe him as friendly. As I mentioned in my last post, the company had mysteriously called me and offered to "negotiate", which I read as an attempt to haggle out of discomfort. The company rep told my wife that the investigator was leaning in favor of the company and that he too "was an employee and that he understood", so they wanted to know how much money I wanted. So, we were utterly deflated and tried haggling, but the company scoffed at my opening bid of -15% and never contacted us again.

That phone call became immediately relevant at the meeting. I told my wife that it was weird at the time but it turned out so for a different reason. The company rep that called had told my wife that the investigator was leaning toward the company. What we didn't know until this meeting was that the investigator had called the company and told them to pay me.

The company did break the law regarding vacation days and did owe me payment for that violation, but the laws are evidently poorly written to cover a variety of job circumstances regarding severance. The investigator told me that my case was in a gray area and that he had no (actual) ability to force the company to pay my severance. He was attempting to use the vacation day violation, which gave him some legal power, as leverage in order to get them to comply. (**legal notes explained at the end)

So, shortly after this labor board meeting began, my wife asked the investigator why he told the company that he was going to rule in the company's favor. It seriously compromised her ability to negotiate if the company knows what the investigator is thinking and we do not. The investigator adamantly exclaimed that he did no such thing. First, he called the company rep in front of us and charged the man, asking why he had told my wife such a thing. The investigator told the company rep that he had never said anything like that. Then, my wife immediately called the company rep, in front of the investigator, and chewed him out thoroughly for lying to her. While this was largely impulse, it was probably for the best because it showed the veracity of our claim. She told me that she was shaking because she was so angry and the investigator had to gesture to her to take it down a notch. The company rep, of course denied everything, but as far as I am concerned, it was just further slippery behavior. He even went so far, later on, as to make a peace offering to my wife by offering a meal out someplace, but I'm highly skeptical that it means he's a sincere or genuine person.

The real culprit, who started all of this, is the worm-tongued, mangle-mouthed manager who mis-handled the last contract and explanations regarding the documents causing the breaks in employment history. We will never know if these things happened by (the company's) design or out of her ignorance, but they were rubber-stamped up through the hierarchy, and therefore protected by the hierarchy and its legal team.

So, at this point, we learned that the investigator was committed to getting them to pay me something. We briefly discussed the situation together. With my permission, he pushed for an amount that was about half of my original severance, plus the amount for the vacation violation. It was the investigator's opinion that that was the best possible outcome. So, reluctantly I agreed.

The company tried to pitch for 30%, plus the vacation violation, but he threatened them with punishment for their violation and they finally capitulated. I still don't understand fully - through the translation and explanation of "Korean law" what allowed me that amount but not the actual amount of my severance. So, I left feeling somewhat satisfied, somewhat disappointed. I had already gone through the cycle of believing that I wasn't getting anything, but I had to sign a document agreeing to drop all charges and further prosecution which I felt was a heavy trade. At one point, I had been told if they were prosecuted that the CEO would have to come to the labor board himself. I found out later that it wasn't true and that one of his lawyer lackeys would come instead.

The final exchange of blows between the two parties in this case are occuring now. The company has agreed to pay the negotiated amount, but only after I sign their document (again, only in Korean) stating that I won't press any further charges and that I will not "discuss" this matter with anyone else. So, now that I'm totally pissed off that they want me to sign away another of my rights, I'm beating them to the punch by doing it before the date on the document - which, as I checked, is legally ok.

I advise anyone that wants peace of mind to pay the extra money for the legal help in a labor law case. It gave me a valuable piece of ammunition that kept my case alive when the common sense points hit and slid down the wall of ignorance. Just getting them to write the brief (for a bit more than two hundred dollars) and therefore having access to their knowledge and being able to ask questions when we needed answers througout this process, helped alot.

[Alias77]

Legal Points:

Vacation Days Law: In Korean law, for your first year with a company, you should not receive any vacation days. However, provided that you continue to work for the same company, in your second year, you should receive 15 days. For every 2 years after that, you receive an additional day. For example: 4 years of employment. First year : 0 days, Second year: 15 days, Third year: 15 days, Fourth year: 16 days (+1 increase every two years) - a total of 46 days of paid vacation. They do not accrue or roll-over to my knowledge.

I have been indoctrinated to believe that the 5 days summer, 5 days winter vacation, not inlcuding pre-existing holidays, was the law. It is NOT when you continue to work for the same company. Technically, you are 5 days in deficit by the end of your second year according to most teacher contracts and you would owe the company 5 days. However, by the third year, if they are not giving you the days, they are required by law to compensate you for that time under Korean law. My company was quite comfortable keeping the 5 Summer/5 Winter status quo and were shocked when I hit them with this at the labor board meeting. It kept my case alive.

Severance: Receiving a yearly severance payment is illegal as of September, 2013. If your company is paying you a severance amount at the end of your contract, and you continue working for them the following year, it is illegal unless they are trapping you with a similar document to show a break in your employment history. Now, it is important to note that your severance payment is calculated by the wages you earn in the final three months of your employment. So, by the new system in which the company does not pay a yearly severance, salary increases from year to year mean that your severance payout will ALSO increase. You might give away money if your salary increased from year to year and you operated on yearly severance payouts!
For example:Three years at the same company - Year 1 salary: 2.4, Year 2 salary: 2.5, Year 3 salary: 2.6 and then change companies. Therefore, your 3 years of severance would be 3 x 2.6 upon payout. That's 7.8 instead of 7.5. In my own case, I not only threw away the extra amount but I lost most of my final year severance because of signing that employment break document to get the severance at the end of the 3rd year.
Only you can gauge whether or not this system works for you, but it goes without saying that little companies/hagwons are probably a bad gamble to wait and get paid later.

365 Days rule: The final point, that I expect most of you long-term guys to already know, is that the dates on the contract are important in settling severance disputes. I worked for 4 years for an after-school program. After-school programs usually operate only 50 weeks a year, not including vacation, because of the school system or under-the-table deals where the company remodels the classrooms. That 2 week gap was never a problem in the past because until 2013 when I was asked to sign that document, my employment was shown as continuous. After I signed that document, my irregular work calendar gave the company the ability to say that I didn't work a full year and they were not required to pay the severance, despite verbally assuring me when I signed my contract.

I think they knew up front the law was a "gray area", but lied to me so I would fill the post immediately. Their legal team was ever so clear about how they didn't have to pay me when the time came. Yet, I worked a full year in good faith, expecting my severance from these jerks - and I would have quit LONG before otherwise. I even missed my grandmother's funeral over an argument about winter vacation, which also should have led me to quit but I hung on for two more months for the severance. My original manager was a decent man and would have dated the contract back to the beginning of the month in order to give me full rights. (He quit because he couldn't handle the idiots at the top, I think) I just didn't know it was something to watch out for, so the worm-tongued manager screwed me up. So, be careful that your contract dates are a full 365 days, especially if you have an irregular yearly schedule, or you'll be fighting weasel lawyers too. Even if your schedule starts March 14th, get the contract backdated to March 1. For example: Contract Dates: Mar 1 ~ Feb 28

[nicwr2002]

Wow, great post! It sucks that you had to give up half of your money, but at least there was some good that came out of it.