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Adventurer

Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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| FMPJ wrote: |
The killer wrote a racist manifesto, wore racist Rhodesian and Apartheid-era South Africa patches on his jacket, and made explicitly racist statements the day of the murders. He drove a long way to go to a black church, specifically.
Here are some quotes from his website:
| Dylann Roof wrote: |
N*****s are stupid and violent [...]
I chose Charleston because it is most historic city in my state, and at one time had the highest ratio of blacks to Whites in the country [...] We have no skinheads, no real KKK, no one doing anything but talking on the internet. Well someone has to have the bravery to take it to the real world, and I guess that has to be me. |
If you'd like to read something, may I suggest this. |
They should label him as a terrorist and charge him with terrorism. When they only do that to people of a certain religion and also call certain people of a certain thugs, it shows that the justice system is very far from color-blind. |
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NovaKart
Joined: 18 Nov 2009 Location: Iraq
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Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:13 am Post subject: |
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| They already say he's going to be charged with the death penalty and I'd say its quite likely he will get it. |
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NovaKart
Joined: 18 Nov 2009 Location: Iraq
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Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:15 am Post subject: |
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I don't believe I've ever suggested he wasn't motivated by racism. The article said white America, its own words, was complicit and if people also dare suggest he was mentally ill they are complicit. |
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stilicho25
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 3:14 am Post subject: |
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| I see. When muslims attack and people look for causes within the religion its islamphobia. When white guys attack its cause all white people are racist. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| NovaKart wrote: |
I don't believe I've ever suggested he wasn't motivated by racism. The article said white America, its own words, was complicit and if people also dare suggest he was mentally ill they are complicit. |
Well, white America is the reason that damn flag is still flying next to the state capitol in Columbia.
And I'm guessing that there is a higher % of whites against stricter gun control laws than minorities against such laws.
Who is turning this tragedy into an attack against christianity? White people.
So no, we're not complicit, but we're not totally blameless either. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:19 am Post subject: |
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| stilicho25 wrote: |
| I see. When muslims attack and people look for causes within the religion its islamphobia. When white guys attack its cause all white people are racist. |
Oh please. How many people are actually saying that? |
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stilicho25
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| That was directed at the salon articles. I am still waiting for the ill ride with you angry white man hashtag. |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| Well, white America is the reason that damn flag is still flying next to the state capitol in Columbia. |
That damn flag is not the reason those people are dead. Shaming people into guilt over that damn flag, however, is sure to engender more hostility.
| Quote: |
| And I'm guessing that there is a higher % of whites against stricter gun control laws than minorities against such laws. |
What? Of all these tragedies, surely stricter gun control laws is even more of a non-issue here. As a convicted felon, it was illegal for him to possess any kind of firearm. Even a complete nationwide ban would only have made it slightly more expensive for him to embark upon his murderous crusade.
| Quote: |
| Who is turning this tragedy into an attack against christianity? |
Partisan evangelicals who are mostly, but not exclusively, white. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| geldedgoat wrote: |
That damn flag is not the reason those people are dead. |
Nope, but it is a symbol for the killer's motivation.
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What? Of all these tragedies, surely stricter gun control laws is even more of a non-issue here. As a convicted felon, it was illegal for him to possess any kind of firearm. Even a complete nationwide ban would only have made it slightly more expensive for him to embark upon his murderous crusade. |
More expensive and more difficult. |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| Nope, but it is a symbol for the killer's motivation. |
This is a nonsense statement. He aligned his beliefs with the flag, but a great many more display the same flag in an entirely benign manner (benign, at least, with respect to race relations). Whether or not the Stars and Bars was flying over the capitol or had even been roundly denounced would have swayed him not in the slightest, much like how the popular sentiments towards his actual transgressions of morality held no influence. More directly, his stated complaint was that blacks were taking over the country; how do think removing the flag to avoid offending white progressives and blacks would have made him feel?
| Quote: |
| More expensive and more difficult. |
It would not have prevented his obtaining a gun. I don't, nor should you, care whether or not it would have cost him another week's worth of income and effort, as the result would have been the same.
Last edited by geldedgoat on Sun Jun 21, 2015 4:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Rteacher

Joined: 23 May 2005 Location: Western MA, USA
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Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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Although some racists and forms of racism may be considered more benign than others, the Confederate flag remains a racist symbol, largely through its association with groups like the KKK. Here's a couple quotes from the Wiki article:
In their study of Confederate symbols in the contemporary Southern United States, the Southern political scientists James Michael Martinez, William Donald Richardson, and Ron McNinch-Su write:
The battle flag was never adopted by the Confederate Congress, never flew over any state capitols during the Confederacy, and was never officially used by Confederate veterans' groups. The flag probably would have been relegated to Civil War museums if it had not been resurrected by the resurgent KKK and used by Southern Dixiecrats during the 1948 presidential election....
Southern historian Gordon Rhea further wrote in 2011 that:
It is no accident that Confederate symbols have been the mainstay of white supremacist organizations, from the Ku Klux Klan to the skinheads. They did not appropriate the Confederate battle flag simply because it was pretty. They picked it because it was the flag of a nation dedicated to their ideals: 'that the negro is not equal to the white man'. The Confederate flag, we are told, represents heritage, not hate. But why should we celebrate a heritage grounded in hate, a heritage whose self-avowed reason for existence was the exploitation and debasement of a sizeable segment of its population?...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America#Controversy |
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Rteacher

Joined: 23 May 2005 Location: Western MA, USA
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Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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Myopically focusing on how enactment of certain proposed legislation probably would not have prevented this latest mass shooting, does little to advance the cause of responsibly regulating guns.
Author Stephen King, who pulled one of his own novels (Rage) after it evidently provided some motivation in a high school shooting case, notes that as he voluntarily choose not to exercise his 1st Amendment right because he was concerned with not hurting others, proponents of the 2nd Amendment should similarly be open to reasonable limitations for the sake of saving lives. http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jun/19/stephen-king-gun-control-charleston-closed-minds |
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sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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Although he is in the extreme, his views are not. Its way, way more prevalent than people want to admit. We have all grown numb to casual racism in the form of jokes, etc. and reduce to 'kidding around'.
Fox News, CNN and the major media tried as hard as they could to change the meme to a war on Christianity. Even though it was obvious it was racism. It took them 12 hours to find the stereotypical black conservative/church guy to say it isn't about racism. THe GOP candidates were quickly saying the same.
These types of guys are depicted as lone wolves in the media but as soon as non white guy does something kinda, sorta similar its reflective of a whole group of people. The guy who shot the two cops in NYC in response to the verdict of Eric Garner, was a one wolf and they tried desperately to tie to him to some black gang.
The amazing thing is that blacks haven't taken up arms and we see the reverse happening. In the mid '90s there was a rash of black church burnings. What everyone really fears is the tipping point. the point where they say eff it, lets get guns and start shooting back. Especially with the rash of unarmed black people being killed or abused by white cops.
there is going to be a tipping point. I am glad I'm out of the country if/when that happens. We keep saying its not all whites while not applying that to blacks, moslems, latinos, etc,
I can see it on social media. There is a LOT of anger amongst younger blacks. The old guard from the civil rights era are seen as weak. Its not going to be pretty. Oh well. |
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Plain Meaning
Joined: 18 Oct 2014
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Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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Why is everyone so defensive?
Nobody serious in America is really blaming mainstream or moderate white ideology for this individual's terror. Nobody serious is asking moderate American whites to proclaim their moderation. Nobody serious is criticizing mainstream white culture.
Its not as if American white people are treated as Muslims, after all. |
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Plain Meaning
Joined: 18 Oct 2014
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Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| geldedgoat wrote: |
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| Nope, but it is a symbol for the killer's motivation. |
This is a nonsense statement. He aligned his beliefs with the flag, but a great many more display the same flag in an entirely benign manner (benign, at least, with respect to race relations). Whether or not the Stars and Bars was flying over the capitol or had even been roundly denounced would have swayed him not in the slightest, much like how the popular sentiments towards his actual transgressions of morality held no influence. More directly, his stated complaint was that blacks were taking over the country; how do think removing the flag to avoid offending white progressives and blacks would have made him feel? |
The Stars and Bars is a symbol of hatred and treason.
The treason: Armed secession from the United States of America . . .
The hatred: . . . that secession on the basis of defending the institution of slavery
If someone wants to hitch it on the back of their truck to show Southern pride, its their right. As a symbol flying above a state capitol it is totally unacceptable. |
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