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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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 Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 3:28 pm Post subject: Driving in Korea is like Toronto? |
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| So, I was driving around my town here in Korea with a buddy. He commented that even in 3 in the afternoon there was traffic. I told him it took a long time to get places. It's pretty annoying, but I'm kind of use to it. It took me two or three years to get use to driving here. He said it reminded him a lot of driving in Toronto. So, I guess a big city in North America and mid sized to large sized here are the same? (Never mind the way some folks drive, just in terms of sheer traffic volume.) I'm from the maritimes and we don't get traffic jams like this. I do find driving here makes me far more aggressive driver to try to get ahead of the slow pokes and avoid some waiting time. Any one here from big cities find the traffic here the same or comparible? (I'm in a mid sized regional city which was the place that my friend noticed seemed similiar to Toronto.) |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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To me driving, in any mid-to-large sized city in Korea, is like driving in the downtown core of a city of over a million in North America. Driving out in the American suburbs is super chill, but when you go downtown, it's hectic, and the volume of cars goes up exponentially.
However, in Korea, it's the whole city is like that. I think that's what drives a lot of novice drivers nuts here. There is no relief to that extra 'concentration' mode, until you get way out of town which essentially is ALL of Seoul and Gyeonggi. The other provinces aren't so bad, except for their major cities, and maybe large parts of Gyeongnam surrounding Busan. |
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Coltronator
Joined: 04 Dec 2013
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 1:21 am Post subject: |
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| Even the vast majority of Busan (A city of comparable size to Toronoto) is basically no more annoying than driving up or down Yonge St. Only really things significantly different and stressful are the half dozen or so 6 way major intersections in Busanjin & Yeonje gu. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 5:46 am Post subject: |
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I'm not sure about Toronto, but I'd argue that Korea is actually a lot more car-centric than some major North American cities. Not having a vehicle is somewhat aspirational in the cities of the Northeast and places like Seattle, Portland, and San Francisco. It means that you've made enough money that you can live in a place where you don't need a car. In Korea, on the other hand, any family that can afford one has a vehicle. As such, you end up with a lot more cars on the road and significantly worse gridlock.
It's really odd - Seoul has a public transport network that beats the socks off of anything in North America, including New York's much lauded but kind of crappy system. At the same time, however, the approach people take towards vehicle ownership isn't unlike what you would see in the American South. Granted, in the States each family member often has at least one vehicle, but on a philosophical level cars are viewed as a need despite the fact that the subway is often far more convenient in getting you where you need to go. |
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wooden nickels
Joined: 23 May 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 5:56 am Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
I'm not sure about Toronto, but I'd argue that Korea is actually a lot more car-centric than some major North American cities. Not having a vehicle is somewhat aspirational in the cities of the Northeast and places like Seattle, Portland, and San Francisco. It means that you've made enough money that you can live in a place where you don't need a car. In Korea, on the other hand, any family that can afford one has a vehicle. As such, you end up with a lot more cars on the road and significantly worse gridlock.
It's really odd - Seoul has a public transport network that beats the socks off of anything in North America, including New York's much lauded but kind of crappy system. At the same time, however, the approach people take towards vehicle ownership isn't unlike what you would see in the American South. Granted, in the States each family member often has at least one vehicle, but on a philosophical level cars are viewed as a need despite the fact that the subway is often far more convenient in getting you where you need to go. |
I haver never thought of it like this. It does describe it perfectly. |
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trueblue
Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Location: In between the lines
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting points-
I see more and more jobs back home that REQUIRE one to have a vehicle, even when owning a car has nothing to do with the job.
Personally, I think it is blatant discrimination (along with companies requiring a psychological exam simply to work at grocery store or movie theater).
If you are not paying to be in the system, you are plucked.
Anyway, I did not mean to derail the thread. |
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hellofaniceguy
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: On your computer screen!
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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How can one possibly equate driving habits between a great metropolis city like Toronto vs korea or any city in korea?!?!
Sure...you have knuckleheads in all cities who feel that the rules of society do not apply to them...but korean drivers in my opinion...not all...but most...are...are...bad drivers. Just watch them! Sit in a coffee shop sometime looking out the window watching korean drivers!
What gets me..is pulling up to a red light...you want to go straight ahead...and the idiot behind you is beeping their horn wanting you to pull over into the left lane so he/she can turn right! What's wrong with waiting a few minutes for the light to change like most other countries?! What's the big hurry? And then when they do turn...they race to the next red light and slam on their brakes! |
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silkhighway
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| trueblue wrote: |
Interesting points-
I see more and more jobs back home that REQUIRE one to have a vehicle, even when owning a car has nothing to do with the job.
Personally, I think it is blatant discrimination (along with companies requiring a psychological exam simply to work at grocery store or movie theater).
If you are not paying to be in the system, you are plucked.
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Unfortunately, that's probably a consequence of the proliferation of edge cities and power centres that have sprung up all over North American cities in the last few decades. By design, they are extremely difficult if not impossible to be reasonably accessed by any other mode other than automobile. I'm guessing jobs that advertise that you must own a car have been burnt too much by employees unable to get to work, because their drive called in sick or something. (This is not an excuse for it, just saying..) |
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silkhighway
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
I'm not sure about Toronto, but I'd argue that Korea is actually a lot more car-centric than some major North American cities. Not having a vehicle is somewhat aspirational in the cities of the Northeast and places like Seattle, Portland, and San Francisco. It means that you've made enough money that you can live in a place where you don't need a car. In Korea, on the other hand, any family that can afford one has a vehicle. As such, you end up with a lot more cars on the road and significantly worse gridlock.
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The proper cities of Portland and San Francisco are actually quite small cities compared to their much large metropolises. And Seattle was never a great example to be included with them. They all have very sprawly and car-centric metro areas.
Toronto also has terrible traffic. It is a special case because of forced almagamation in the 90's, that has resulted in declining public transit, and thanks to politicians pandering to suburban populism, a lot of bad decisions that have been made and continue to be made. The Sheppard Subway line and the East Gardiner Freeway are two examples. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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| hellofaniceguy wrote: |
What gets me..is pulling up to a red light...you want to go straight ahead...and the idiot behind you is beeping their horn wanting you to pull over into the left lane so he/she can turn right! What's wrong with waiting a few minutes for the light to change like most other countries?! |
I don't think you came from a place where you can turn on red. Back home, if someone wants to go straight but is taking up the right turn lane, people honk at them as well. At the very least the person should pull out a little so the person behind them can turn right also.
It's like the left half of the escalator. If you aren't walking up, you should move to the right and let people walk up.
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| Not having a vehicle is somewhat aspirational in the cities of the Northeast and places like Seattle, Portland, and San Francisco. It means that you've made enough money that you can live in a place where you don't need a car. |
Outside of some greeny lefties and hipsters, I can't think of too many Americans who ascribe to this view. And even then, those people have to rent cars anytime they want to go camping or whatnot. The sign of affluence is being able to afford the darn parking space and then use your car on the weekends to go somewhere. Either that or having a car service take you to and from work. |
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trueblue
Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Location: In between the lines
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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Outside of some greeny lefties and hipsters, I can't think of too many Americans who ascribe to this view. And even then, those people have to rent cars anytime they want to go camping or whatnot. The sign of affluence is being able to afford the darn parking space and then use your car on the weekends to go somewhere. Either that or having a car service take you to and from work. |
But it does not mean one should be denied the opportunity to earn a living... |
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silkhighway
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
Outside of some greeny lefties and hipsters, I can't think of too many Americans who ascribe to this view. And even then, those people have to rent cars anytime they want to go camping or whatnot. The sign of affluence is being able to afford the darn parking space and then use your car on the weekends to go somewhere. Either that or having a car service take you to and from work. |
There are a handful of North American cities where if you live in the city, at least in the city centre, a car is more of a hindrance than a help, whatever your socio-economic background. That's not to say these areas are representative of America as a whole, definitely not, but these areas definitely exist.
Far more interesting is American attitudes have drastically changed in the last decade as well, and millennials are far less attached to their cars than previous generations. Generally speaking, they are more likely to see them as a tool and not an extension of their personality,and are more open to alternatives. |
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Coltronator
Joined: 04 Dec 2013
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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The thing I find most infuriating isn't people honking to turn right. (Which also exists in Toronto so your reply confuses me.) It is people parking in a lane on a 4 lane major street.
This is a big issue in Korea but also a problem on Yonge St, and College, and Spadina (Spadina has more lanes but still annoying).
I own a car in Busan and feel just fine driving. I do find it annoying but have had exactly the same experiences annoy driving back home. (Except the aforementioned 6 way major intersections which are beastly but I know why they exist) |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| silkhighway wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
Outside of some greeny lefties and hipsters, I can't think of too many Americans who ascribe to this view. And even then, those people have to rent cars anytime they want to go camping or whatnot. The sign of affluence is being able to afford the darn parking space and then use your car on the weekends to go somewhere. Either that or having a car service take you to and from work. |
There are a handful of North American cities where if you live in the city, at least in the city centre, a car is more of a hindrance than a help, whatever your socio-economic background. That's not to say these areas are representative of America as a whole, definitely not, but these areas definitely exist.
Far more interesting is American attitudes have drastically changed in the last decade as well, and millennials are far less attached to their cars than previous generations. Generally speaking, they are more likely to see them as a tool and not an extension of their personality,and are more open to alternatives. |
And to be able to live in one of those areas is, in a word, aspirational. I know plenty of exceptionally well off individuals in New York in particular who would never think of purchasing a vehicle, even with their ability to pay for all its ancillary costs.
Also, why do people always bring up camping and "whatnot" when they're trying to defend the ostensible need to own a vehicle? Very few individuals go camping enough to justify the costs of car ownership relative to renting, and that number dwindles further when you're talking about people who live in major cities. I have no idea what the hell "whatnot" is, so I won't speculate as to how much people do that. The fact that you need to reference "whatnot", however, would seemingly detract from the point that there are all sorts of activities that necessitate vehicles. Also note that the emergence of Uber, Lyft, Zipcar, and services like Peapod have gone a long way towards negating any need to own a vehicle of your own, even outside of the nation's largest cities. |
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silkhighway
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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To be fair, my family lives inner-city and we own a car for exactly that reason. For me, a car is freedom to travel Western Canada and the US. It's freedom to get to the cottage, mountains,the coast, national parks, long drives into the prairie skies, everything to me that is special about living in this part of the world.
Big difference between that and being trapped in traffic during the morning commute though, only to pay through the nose for parking. I'm all for good city public transit, alternative options like car-sharing, and bike infrastructure. |
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