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raewon
Joined: 16 Jun 2009
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 Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 8:00 pm Post subject: question on to infinitive as condition |
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I have a question on the usage of "to infinitive" that I hope someone can help with. I know that it can be used for purpose/result.. but what about condition?
For example:
(a) To go now, you can get there on time.
= If you go now, you can get there on time.
And
(b) You will fall madly in love with her to see her once.
= If you see her once, you will fall madly in love with her.
The "if" sentences sound fine to me, but the first ones do not. However, I'm not sure if they are grammatically possible or not. Are they?
Then there are cases like the following:
To hear him talk, you would take him for a professor.
= If you heard him talk, you would take him for a professor.
In this example, both sentences sound find to me. In these types of sentences is the "to infinitive" being used as a "condition"?
Thanks a lot for any help that can clarify the above. I can't find any uses of "condition" in my grammar books, and online I can only find other people asking about the second situation. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 9:08 pm Post subject: Re: question on to infinitive as condition |
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| raewon wrote: |
I have a question on the usage of "to infinitive" that I hope someone can help with. I know that it can be used for purpose/result.. but what about condition?
For example:
(a) To go now, you can get there on time.
= If you go now, you can get there on time.
And
(b) You will fall madly in love with her to see her once.
= If you see her once, you will fall madly in love with her.
The "if" sentences sound fine to me, but the first ones do not. However, I'm not sure if they are grammatically possible or not. Are they?
Then there are cases like the following:
To hear him talk, you would take him for a professor.
= If you heard him talk, you would take him for a professor.
In this example, both sentences sound find to me. In these types of sentences is the "to infinitive" being used as a "condition"?
Thanks a lot for any help that can clarify the above. I can't find any uses of "condition" in my grammar books, and online I can only find other people asking about the second situation. |
Hello Raewon,
Some quick questions for you.
What is it that you are looking for specifically?
Ex.
To hear him talk, you have to register for his lecture.
Is this what you are referring to as a 'condition'?
As for A and B...did you write those, or were they some example given? They do not register as grammatically correct to me.(semantically or pragmatically) |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 9:29 pm Post subject: Re: question on to infinitive as condition |
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| raewon wrote: |
I have a question on the usage of "to infinitive" that I hope someone can help with. I know that it can be used for purpose/result.. but what about condition?
For example:
(a) To go now, you can get there on time.
= If you go now, you can get there on time.
And
(b) You will fall madly in love with her to see her once.
= If you see her once, you will fall madly in love with her.
The "if" sentences sound fine to me, but the first ones do not. However, I'm not sure if they are grammatically possible or not. Are they? |
Sentences (a) and (b) strike me as wrong. It is almost as if they were going for something like, "To go now is to get there on time," or, "To see her once is to fall madly in love with her," and bungled it? Those sentences could be respectively rephrased as, "If you go now, you [will] get there on time," or, "If you see her once, you will fall madly in love with her," with their meanings intact, but I don't know if that's the grammar pattern you're looking for here. |
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raewon
Joined: 16 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for your reply, The Cosmic Hum. No, I didn't write those sentences...someone asked me if they could be used. I guess I'm looking for "to infinitive" that can be replaced with "if". That would make it some form of a condition (rather than a result or purpose) would it not? Couldn't your example be rewritten as "If you want to hear him talk, ~."
I didn't think the examples I gave were correct but I have seen similar sentences in Korean grammar books. And I'm still not sure what is the function of "To hear him talk," in my last example. I thought that sentence was correct but perhaps not.
Thanks. |
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radish kimchi
Joined: 20 Mar 2014
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds like the student simply doesn't know conditionals. You could write it as, "You will fall madly in love with her once you see her."
This assumes a greater probability the listener will see her. To make it more neutral (and natural sounding) add the conditional, "If you see her, you will fall madly in love." / ("with her" seems redundant to me)
"If you see her once, you will fall madly in love with her." sounds like a sentence a student would write for some homework assignment. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| raewon wrote: |
Thanks for your reply, The Cosmic Hum. No, I didn't write those sentences...someone asked me if they could be used. I guess I'm looking for "to infinitive" that can be replaced with "if". That would make it some form of a condition (rather than a result or purpose) would it not? Couldn't your example be rewritten as "If you want to hear him talk, ~."
I didn't think the examples I gave were correct but I have seen similar sentences in Korean grammar books. And I'm still not sure what is the function of "To hear him talk," in my last example. I thought that sentence was correct but perhaps not.
Thanks. |
Hello again Raewon,
Your final example was correct. And yes, you are right about how my example could be rewritten. The reason I gave my example was to contrast the alternative meaning to your example.
You are asking a specific grammar question that I suspect does not have a specific grammar substitution. Both of our examples are dependent clauses that derive their meaning from the independent clause they are attached to.
Not sure if this is all that helpful to you, but this is a complicated structure that doesn't take substitution as easily as you may have hoped. Both are reductions with different semantic and pragmatic meanings.
My example is simply a reduced conditional(purpose/result) with no pragmatic confusion.
In your example, that structure often has a derogatory opinionated pragmatic reference. (much easier to hear than read)
Ex.
To hear him talk, you would think he was a movie star or something.
But he isn't a movie star, just an egomaniac.
Again, not sure how helpful this is, but hope it clears things up a bit.
Cheers. |
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raewon
Joined: 16 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks to everyone for taking the time to post a reply. They were all helpful. |
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