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Ethne Education Busan
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tophatcat

Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Location: under the hat

Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 5:42 am Post subject:

alongway wrote:

tophatcat wrote:

alongway wrote:

tophatcat wrote:

alongway wrote:

tophatcat wrote:

alongway wrote:

tophatcat wrote:

alongway wrote:

tophatcat wrote:

+1 coralref

I'm happy to take on a 30,000 won opportunity to fill an empty block in my schedule if a 50,000 won opportunity doesn't exist.

Yup! Me too! I ain't no member of no stinkin save the whatever union!

and how happy will you be when that 30k get's pushed down to 20k, 15k?

I shoot for 50k. I'd rather make 20k than nothing.

So in other word your time is worth basically nothing? What happens if other jobs catch wind that you're basically giving your time away for free?

No. My time is basically worth around 50k an hour.

Then why accept 20k an hour? If you're so insanely flexible to take a 60% pay cut, then your time really isn't worth 50k/hour.

But when it's averaged out over the period of a month, it's about 50k/hour.

I get 60k/hour for some of my adult businesses classes.

What's the least amount you are willing to work for?

and you'd need 3 of those to make up for taking the 20k/hour to average out to 50. I only drop to 40 if it's part of a block and it's a long time client. Nothing less.

You failed to mention the 2 hours for 140/k. The lowest I've taken in the past year has been 30/k, and that has only been a couple of classes. 75% of the time, it's 50/k or above. But yes, I will not have a problem with taking 20/k if I need to fill some space.

That would be you failing to mention them. It seems every time your argument isn't going well you just add something. The point is to make up for a single class at 20k and still average 50k, you need 3 classes at 60k. You can't take many of those before it drags your average down. And if you're actually taking 70k in some classes, why are you taking 20k/hour? Is it simple a lack of self respect?

If you had scrolled up you would see that I did mention them. YOU FAILED TO LOOK.

I said I would be willing to take 20k, not that I am taking 20k.

I am rollin in self respect.

Don't be angry. You are jealous. You have failed and you are jealous.

Last edited by tophatcat on Sun Nov 15, 2015 5:52 am; edited 1 time in total

tophatcat

Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Location: under the hat

Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 5:48 am Post subject:

coralreefer_1 wrote:

Not to attempt to step on the argument between you guys, but every class and situation is different. When one says they may have a 20, 30, 40/hr class may be very different that what other people have as their rate.

Currently the only side class I have going is for a doctor at a national university hospital editing his PPT's and working with him for pronunciation for the speeches and presentations he gives at national conferences. In that case, the hourly fee is 65/hour.

This is a very different situation that taking 35/hour for helping a 9 year old through their "Let's Go" book. One situation is a very serious class where preparation and excellence are expected. The other is more or less a rich parent paying money for their child to have a foreign influence (and maybe learn something in the process)

So while people are crapping on others for charging less, lets keep it in context. People charging 30,000 won to coach high paid businessmen or otherwise adult level classes that mean more than a few photocopies of a textbook in terms are preparation is shameful to a degree. But for now all this has been about is a discussion of "rates" with no context of the age/ability/goals of the student.....factors that play a HUGE role in determining the rate

When someone comes on here and admits they are are teaching adults (as in a class, and not a mere dinner/drinking/conversation session) for less than 40,000/hour.....I will be the next to jump on the "damn you undercutters" bandwagon. But at this point, noone has said that yet....and the haters just "assume" that low rates apply to all ages and levels across the same spectrum.

+1

+++++

tophatcat

Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Location: under the hat

Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:03 am Post subject:

alongway wrote:

tophatcat wrote:

alongway wrote:

tophatcat wrote:

alongway wrote:

tophatcat wrote:

alongway wrote:

tophatcat wrote:

and how happy will you be when that 30k get's pushed down to 20k, 15k?

I shoot for 50k. I'd rather make 20k than nothing.

So in other word your time is worth basically nothing? What happens if other jobs catch wind that you're basically giving your time away for free?

No. My time is basically worth around 50k an hour.

Then why accept 20k an hour? If you're so insanely flexible to take a 60% pay cut, then your time really isn't worth 50k/hour.

But when it's averaged out over the period of a month, it's about 50k/hour.

I get 60k/hour for some of my adult businesses classes.

What's the least amount you are willing to work for?

and you'd need 3 of those to make up for taking the 20k/hour to average out to 50. I only drop to 40 if it's part of a block and it's a long time client. Nothing less.

Why take 40? Heck, fill it with a 50.

alongway

Joined: 02 Jan 2012

Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 4:22 pm Post subject:

tophatcat wrote:

alongway wrote:

tophatcat wrote:

alongway wrote:

tophatcat wrote:

alongway wrote:

tophatcat wrote:

alongway wrote:

tophatcat wrote:

and how happy will you be when that 30k get's pushed down to 20k, 15k?

I shoot for 50k. I'd rather make 20k than nothing.

So in other word your time is worth basically nothing? What happens if other jobs catch wind that you're basically giving your time away for free?

No. My time is basically worth around 50k an hour.

Then why accept 20k an hour? If you're so insanely flexible to take a 60% pay cut, then your time really isn't worth 50k/hour.

But when it's averaged out over the period of a month, it's about 50k/hour.

I get 60k/hour for some of my adult businesses classes.

What's the least amount you are willing to work for?

and you'd need 3 of those to make up for taking the 20k/hour to average out to 50. I only drop to 40 if it's part of a block and it's a long time client. Nothing less.

Why take 40? Heck, fill it with a 50.

Because 40 is a lot closer to 50, and twice as much as you claim you'd take, and I don't do that for everyone. It's only used in blocks and only for people who have studied with me for for a long time. My time is actually worth something, even my free time.

goat

Joined: 23 Feb 2010

Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 5:41 pm Post subject:

alongway wrote:

tophatcat wrote:

alongway wrote:

tophatcat wrote:

alongway wrote:

tophatcat wrote:

alongway wrote:

tophatcat wrote:

and how happy will you be when that 30k get's pushed down to 20k, 15k?

I shoot for 50k. I'd rather make 20k than nothing.

So in other word your time is worth basically nothing? What happens if other jobs catch wind that you're basically giving your time away for free?

No. My time is basically worth around 50k an hour.

Then why accept 20k an hour? If you're so insanely flexible to take a 60% pay cut, then your time really isn't worth 50k/hour.

But when it's averaged out over the period of a month, it's about 50k/hour.

I get 60k/hour for some of my adult businesses classes.

What's the least amount you are willing to work for?

and you'd need 3 of those to make up for taking the 20k/hour to average out to 50. I only drop to 40 if it's part of a block and it's a long time client. Nothing less.

So it's ok when you drop your price but it's not ok when another drops his or her price? Google the word hypocrite.

alongway

Joined: 02 Jan 2012

Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:14 am Post subject:

goat wrote:

alongway wrote:

tophatcat wrote:

alongway wrote:

tophatcat wrote:

alongway wrote:

tophatcat wrote:

alongway wrote:

tophatcat wrote:

and how happy will you be when that 30k get's pushed down to 20k, 15k?

I shoot for 50k. I'd rather make 20k than nothing.

So in other word your time is worth basically nothing? What happens if other jobs catch wind that you're basically giving your time away for free?

No. My time is basically worth around 50k an hour.

Then why accept 20k an hour? If you're so insanely flexible to take a 60% pay cut, then your time really isn't worth 50k/hour.

But when it's averaged out over the period of a month, it's about 50k/hour.

I get 60k/hour for some of my adult businesses classes.

What's the least amount you are willing to work for?

and you'd need 3 of those to make up for taking the 20k/hour to average out to 50. I only drop to 40 if it's part of a block and it's a long time client. Nothing less.

So it's ok when you drop your price but it's not ok when another drops his or her price? Google the word hypocrite.

is a 20% loyalty discount the same thing as a random 73% rate drop to fill a hole?

World Traveler

Joined: 29 May 2009

Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:18 am Post subject:

Here's a good thread: http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=231037

coralreefer_1

Joined: 19 Jan 2009

Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:18 am Post subject:

alongway wrote:

goat wrote:

alongway wrote:

tophatcat wrote:

alongway wrote:

tophatcat wrote:

alongway wrote:

tophatcat wrote:

alongway wrote:

tophatcat wrote:

and how happy will you be when that 30k get's pushed down to 20k, 15k?

I shoot for 50k. I'd rather make 20k than nothing.

So in other word your time is worth basically nothing? What happens if other jobs catch wind that you're basically giving your time away for free?

No. My time is basically worth around 50k an hour.

Then why accept 20k an hour? If you're so insanely flexible to take a 60% pay cut, then your time really isn't worth 50k/hour.

But when it's averaged out over the period of a month, it's about 50k/hour.

I get 60k/hour for some of my adult businesses classes.

What's the least amount you are willing to work for?

and you'd need 3 of those to make up for taking the 20k/hour to average out to 50. I only drop to 40 if it's part of a block and it's a long time client. Nothing less.

So it's ok when you drop your price but it's not ok when another drops his or her price? Google the word hypocrite.

is a 20% loyalty discount the same thing as a random 73% rate drop to fill a hole?

Maybe not, but that is for tophatcat to decide, not you. What you set as your rate, or what you set as a loyalty rate, or what you set as anything else does not affect what anyone else charges.

It amazes me how people with gripe and moan about chaebols running the market, or complain about how the government has this forced emart/homeplus/costco closing twice a month and trumpet it as an affront to the free market and competitiveness, (darned high prices local marts with their terrible service and overpriced fruits/veggies should do more)... yet at the same time go out of their way to argue the exact same principal: Protect those that cant compete in the market.

People (potential students) are smart enough to decide for themselves and weigh a cost/benefit. I personally find it insulting that basically you insinuate that students (customers) are too stupid to not be able to judge for themselves about the quality (benefit) a 40,000 won teacher gives over an 80,000 won teacher.

Sometimes, I just want to drink cheap rum because I will mix it with Coke. That means that I dont need a high dollar imported top shelf rum because any benefit that comes from that high price will be nullified anyway by mixing it. And sometimes I buy beef because i mix it with pork to make bratwurst and there is no need to pay for high end hanwoo when I will not only mix with pork, but add so many spices to it that any benefit of that expensive hanwoo will be unnoticeable.

The continuation of all of this only adds proof that some teachers charge inflated prices to students that dont see the added value of that inflated price compared to a lower cost teacher. Sure there is likely a difference, but obviously the consumers (students) don't see that difference being worth double the expense.

So it leads to the question of whether this is going on because (a) you really care about the community at large and want to preserve rates for all...or (b) you have seen you own income/classes drop because other teachers are charging less (but satisfying the consumer because they are making the cash)?

Coltronator

Joined: 04 Dec 2013

Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:00 am Post subject:

Coral, well said.

goat

Joined: 23 Feb 2010

Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:52 am Post subject:

I have to agree with coralreefer.

big_fella1

Joined: 08 Dec 2005

Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 7:57 am Post subject: Re: Ethne Education Busan

Handsome Boy wrote:

Ok! a couple of questions about this outfit and nothing to do with the immigration bust but it may overlap.

I have an F6 visa and I'm in my late forties, fully qualified and experienced etc etc. I signed up with this outfit after the drama in Busan thinking this would be a good opportunity to get some extra work.

Since i signed up with them 7 weeks ago, I've had one job, one night a week. I've been offered 3 other jobs but its clashed with my schedule, even though they know my schedule, go figure!

Therefore, I phoned one of them tonight and asked is there a preference for young females in Busan? Is this the reason I don't get work? The answer I got back was "we match what the company wants". Ok! try again with the same two questions.

At this point I'm met with, well! frankly speaking rudeness and arrogance and they won't answer the question.

My question to you fellow Teflers is: Are there any older teachers working for them and what are your impressions/experiences?

Or are there any younger teachers working for them and what are your impressions/experiences?

Thanks.

I didn't work for Ethne, however I had dealings with them before the name change and after. Before the name change I was bought in to their office for interview, I met the female president she scowled and then the class I was given was cancelled by phone call just before it started. I was fortunate enough to see the diary notes of what they were charging the company during the interview and it was significantly north of w100k an hour.

Busan can be tough for corporates, I tended to teach corporates for Seoul based agencies, as they paid more than the Busan agencies. Having said that beware of names associated with the effects of drugs or vegetables in their name.

I'm not sure if Ethne was paying 20k an hour, I did write in another thread they were advertising jobs for 20k below the usual price.

I am no longer in Korea, and if people want to teach for 20k an hour it doesn't affect me. But I believe that Korea needs to develop a service sector to create employment for the graduates that Korean universities spit out each year. English education particularly and Education in general are one of the few service sectors operating profitably and successfully in Korea. You do yourself, other teachers and Korea no favours when you fail to put a reasonable value on the work that you do.

While people are free to charge what they want, I really feel a great amount of pity for someone that believes donning business dress, travelling for an hour teaching for an hour at a company and then travelling for another hour is worth less than 50k. Even if you take 2 consecutive jobs next to each other one at 60k and one at 20k, how will you feel about teaching the 20k one if the 60k were to cancel a class for the day?

I wouldn't take a job with a low rate because "if you pretend to pay me, I'll pretend to work", and I hate living like that.

alongway

Joined: 02 Jan 2012

Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 8:21 am Post subject:

Quote:

Maybe not, but that is for tophatcat to decide, not you. What you set as your rate, or what you set as a loyalty rate, or what you set as anything else does not affect what anyone else charges.

That's completely false.

While it may force you to change your rates, if a few people become active about accepting 20k/hour for lessons, it will become much more difficult for other people to charge 50k/hour. People already have enough issue thinking that they should get private in home english tutoring for the same cheap prices they pay to be in 10 person hagwon classes.

Quote:

It amazes me how people with gripe and moan about chaebols running the market, or complain about how the government has this forced emart/homeplus/costco closing twice a month and trumpet it as an affront to the free market and competitiveness, (darned high prices local marts with their terrible service and overpriced fruits/veggies should do more)... yet at the same time go out of their way to argue the exact same principal: Protect those that cant compete in the market.

Actually, even in the free market there are some controls, controls which are reasonable. For example "dumping" is illegal in many places. While not exactly the same, for some people it can be seen as the same. I have seen people on E2s who are here only a short time show up and loudly claim, and post ads saying they'll teach classes for 15k/hour. This can have a similar effect to dumping a massive amount of low cost product into a country and damaging an existing industry.

If you think the prices you publicly charge have no effect on others, you're an idiot.

Quote:

People (potential students) are smart enough to decide for themselves and weigh a cost/benefit. I personally find it insulting that basically you insinuate that students (customers) are too stupid to not be able to judge for themselves about the quality (benefit) a 40,000 won teacher gives over an 80,000 won teacher.

And how would they judge that? By giving away free demo lessons? On paper the average person sees little difference between any given foreigner unless they've been personally introduced. All they see is some carefully crafted ad somewhere.

Quote:

So it leads to the question of whether this is going on because (a) you really care about the community at large and want to preserve rates for all...or (b) you have seen you own income/classes drop because other teachers are charging less (but satisfying the consumer because they are making the cash)?

I actually care about the community. I have exactly what I want in terms of income and classes these days, but I have many friends who have been here a long time who have had their classes dry up recently. I've seen companies trying to push the wage down farther and farther with little justification beyond their own greed.

IBD

Joined: 23 Oct 2014

Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 6:12 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Pretty much this. The hypocrisy among my colleagues was astounding. They wanted protection from a free market when it suited them yet complained when they had to be 10k Won for a watermelon. Newsflash: You're ALREADY protected from the free market with that shiny F-visa. If you can't make it work for yourself after being in the country 10, 15, 20 years with 90% of the EFL teachers in the country blocked from your customers then I don't know what to say. Teaching in Korea is not like a full-time government job where you can just kick back, not improve yourself, and have a steady salary. Many white men married to Korean women I knew, were guilty of this and it came around to bite them in the ass.

Quote:

The continuation of all of this only adds proof that some teachers charge inflated prices to students that dont see the added value of that inflated price compared to a lower cost teacher. Sure there is likely a difference, but obviously the consumers (students) don't see that difference being worth double the expense.

I saw quite a bit of that. Teachers that I knew were absolute crap getting away with charging 60k+ an hour. Most Koreans probably know better now. That probably wasn't the case 15 years ago though when most of these teachers arrived during the gravy train days.

Quote:

The market here is already tightly controlled in YOUR favour. E-2's can teach on the side for cheap but it IS illegal and if caught there are consequences. Imagine if E-2's could suddenly control their visa and work anywhere they wanted, as many hours they wanted? Plus do privates as long as they declared their earnings? Yes? Well they can't. The market is already rigged towards F visa holders most of whom, from what I saw, couldn't teach a lick or be bothered to up their qualifications and improve themselves. Why? Market controls protected them.

tophatcat

Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Location: under the hat

Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 8:38 pm Post subject:

IBD wrote:

Quote:

+1 on the above. I am saying this as an F5.

tophatcat

Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Location: under the hat

Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 8:42 pm Post subject:

One poster states he is doing well. He is just trying to protect the market for his friends. LOFLMAO

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