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Is teaching still lucrative after obtaining a marriage visa?
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GENO123

Joined: 28 Jan 2010

Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 7:54 pm Post subject:

goat wrote:

GENO123 wrote:

goat wrote:

My colleagues and I are provided good working conditions.

Minimal expenses

Expenses are your responsibility, not the universities' responsibility. If you have accumulated too much debt and too much financial responsibility, you are poor at money management. You can't blame the universities for your poor decisions and expect them to fix your mistakes.

Yeah. My colleagues and I are probably good at money management. Thus, we have minimal expenses. We probably approach our careers and teaching the same way. We plan, prepare, and fulfill.

Read the employment contracts. If you like the conditions, take it. If you don't like the conditions, don't take it.

Way to deflect questions about salary. What an all time cop out. Worse than that is that universities try to stuff f visas.

One cant support a family or pay back loans on a university salary.

One can do extra work but then they got to deal with the risk.

Big famous schools treat teachers worse than servants. People might be responsible for their financial decisions . then again.Universities are responsible for the conditions they offer.
Nothing wrong with shinning a light on them

goat

Joined: 23 Feb 2010

Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:09 pm Post subject:

GENO123 wrote:

goat wrote:

GENO123 wrote:

goat wrote:

My colleagues and I are provided good working conditions.

Minimal expenses

Way to deflect questions about salary. What a cop out. Worse than that is that universities try to stuff f visas.

One cant support a family or pay back loans on a university salary.

One can do extra work but then they got to deal with the risk.

Big famous schools treat teachers worse than servants. People might be responsible for their financial decisions . then again.Universities are responsible for the conditions they offer.
Nothing wrong with shinning a light on them

There will always be a few lowball offers. If you have the credentials and good references you should be getting some good offers. As grandma would always say, "Sonny, you can't cut the mustard!"

goat

Joined: 23 Feb 2010

Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:11 pm Post subject:

GENO123 wrote:

goat wrote:

GENO123 wrote:

goat wrote:

My colleagues and I are provided good working conditions.

Minimal expenses

Tell your wife to get a J O B !

GENO123

Joined: 28 Jan 2010

Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:20 pm Post subject:

Why dont you tell us your idea of a good offer. But there is more than money involved anyway. 3.5 before any and all deductions isnt very much at all. Most schools pay less than that. Often the schools that pay more treat their teachers worse than servants. But even the schools that pay more in fact dont pay much. Now one could do extra work but that isnt risk free. Even on an f visa. Big famous schools think they own you

Lazio

Joined: 15 Dec 2010

Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 1:42 am Post subject:

GENO123 wrote:

[Anyone who doesn't use hogwon salary measurements is puffing and inflating what they earn.

I earn whatever I earn. It's on my bank account. I earn exactly that much. No inflating whatsoever.

When you read salaries for other professions, should they all include a footnote about hagwon teachers getting 300k for housing and 100k for airfare so the stated amount should be adjusted accordingly?

You can't make more than 30k an hour because probably you are a lousy teacher so you think others can't make more either. Teaching is not for everyone. Pick another profession where you can do better or at least be decent at it.

Quote:

The average rate us between 30 and 40k
Usually 40% of work will be at 30k 40 percent will be at 40k 20 % 50 at 50k. There is is travel Cancellations and un foreseen problems.

Where are you getting these numbers from? It sounds very specific but you just pulled them out of your @ss.

Quote:

By the way 45k x 30 = 5.2m minus housing 300 severance 200 = 4 .7 m

Take off 200 for unforseen stuff gives you 4.5. Close to the numbers i used as an example.

Why don't you take out 200 from a hagwon salary for unforseen? A lot of crap could and does happen: late and missing payment, screwed out of pension, severance. Sketchy utility bills deducted from salary. Termination of contract etc.

I wrote earlier: my classes are never cancelled. Except with last summer's MERS craze but that affected everyone. At least I didn't need to work those missing days on Saturdays and during the summer vacation period like many hagwons did.

You quoted 4mil (+- 300k). Far from a steady 4.5m. But more importantly you quoted a 12-13 hour long work day to get that 4m. Than you calculate a steady 4.5m with 6 hours of work/day. You just proved yourself wrong. And don't come with travelling time and such. It won't double the hours out of home.

Quote:

One look on the internet for what the going rate is nearly half the hours are at 30k or less

It really sucks if someone has to look for a part-time job on the internet, after being here for several years. Recruiters for the most part are keeping a big chunk for themselves. Employers can pay a lot more.

A while ago I got a job through a recruiter at 35k/hour 4 hours block. I normally don't accept things under 40k but it was close enough and 4 hours. It turned out that the recruiter actually got 55k/hour from that place.

So we just met in the middle at 45k, everyone is happy except for the recruiter. Direct hire is the way to go. Kindies have a lot of money. They can certainly pay 45-50k. I worked at a place for 2 years with 50k 5 hours.

Just a few weeks ago I got an offer 46k for 5 hours in a block. But I had to turn it down because it was too far. It wasn't even a direct deal.

I have 2 good recruiters that know me and often send me job opportunities. They pay well. I don't see these same jobs posted on the internet. They send it to a handful of people who they have worked together with in the past and one of them takes it.

Quote:

Plenty of 3rd rate accounting on this board. Teachers exaggerate and the leave out hidden out charges to make themselves fell beter about themselves.

It appears that in fact you are the one trying to make yourself feel better about your 2.2 hagwon gig. Or else I really don't know what your agenda is. Oh wait, it's trolling isn't it?

Quote:

At anyrate all my numbers have been been right

Keep telling that to yourself. People show you numerous examples but you just ignore them.

Quote:

One cant support a family or pay back loans on a university salary.

Yes they can. If you can't, it's your problem. If you don't like university positions, don't go working there. Most likely though you are not qualified enough that is why you are so bitter.

curlyhoward

Joined: 03 Dec 2008

Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 1:56 am Post subject:

Lazio hit this on the mark. It couldn't have been better said. This is pretty much my experience with job contacts. I sometimes turn down work mostly because it's out of the way. Within a week something better pops up at my door.

nicwr2002

Joined: 17 Aug 2011

Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 2:31 am Post subject:

GENO123 wrote:

Interesting that u said the following before

http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=2974499&highlight=#2974499

Quote:

Being married with both of us teaching full time we have pulled in about 6 million won a month. However, those few months were so tiring especially for my wife. There were no off days and most of the work was done on the weekends. You will get burned out really fast and I couldn't imagine the workload to make 5 or 6 million alone. Just the thought that there is nothing to look forward to in the week really. Everyday is just working and even if you like your job, not having a day off really gets to you.

Plenty of 3rd rate accounting on this board. Teachers exaggerate and the leave out hidden out charges to make themselves fell beter about themselves.

One look on the internet for what the going rate is nearly half the hours are at 30k or less

Anyone who doesn't use hogwon salary measurements is puffing and inflating what they earn. I was pessimistic on the won . Was i wrong?

That was my wife's schedule actually, and after discussing the way we were handling things we are better off now. Teaching high students were the problem and now we only teach middle school age children. High school requires you to teach one on one, where middle school allows you to teach them in a group. Oh yea, high school students need to be taught on the weekend or really late into the night, like 130am late.

frankhenry

Joined: 13 Mar 2007

Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:39 am Post subject:

under qualified, lousy teacher = bitter

GENO123

Joined: 28 Jan 2010

Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:46 am Post subject:

[quote="Lazio"][

Quote:

I earn whatever I earn. It's on my bank account. I earn exactly that much. No inflating whatsoever.

If you don't include severence and housing you are inflating. You are guilty of inflating .

Quote:

When you read salaries for other professions, should they all include a footnote about hagwon teachers getting 300k for housing and 100k for airfare so the stated amount should be adjusted accordingly?

such is the standard for esl

Quote:

You can't make more than 30k an hour because probably you are a lousy teacher so you think others can't make more either. Teaching is not for everyone. Pick another profession where you can do better or at least be decent at it.

you don't know what I earn only that I stated that the average rate is between 30 and 40

\

Where are you getting these numbers from? It sounds very specific but you just pulled them out of your @ss.

Internet . Evidence doesn't factor into you calculations . Also since you seem to deny there are unforseen consequences and charges neither does reality .

Quote:

Perhaps I should as well , though I think it is irrelavent to the dicusssion.

Quote:

I wrote earlier: my classes are never cancelled. Except with last summer's MERS craze but that affected everyone. At least I didn't need to work those missing days on Saturdays and during the summer vacation period like many hagwons did.

\
There is always something . Unless you live in Polyana land.

Quote:

You quoted 4mil (+- 300k). Far from a steady 4.5m. But more importantly you quoted a 12-13 hour long work day to get that 4m. Than you calculate a steady 4.5m with 6 hours of work/day. You just proved yourself wrong. And don't come with travelling time and such. It won't double the hours out of home.

He didn't work 12 or 13 hours a day. He worked between 6-8.

Quote:

Since the market is not what it once was that is sort of how it goes. And for cooperate stuff most companies won't hire a teacher directly.

Quote:

A while ago I got a job through a recruiter at 35k/hour 4 hours block. I normally don't accept things under 40k but it was close enough and 4 hours. It turned out that the recruiter actually got 55k/hour from that place.

Agreed

Quote:

So we just met in the middle at 45k, everyone is happy except for the recruiter. Direct hire is the way to go. Kindies have a lot of money. They can certainly pay 45-50k. I worked at a place for 2 years with 50k 5 hours.

Just a few weeks ago I got an offer 46k for 5 hours in a block. But I had to turn it down because it was too far. It wasn't even a direct deal.

I have 2 good recruiters that know me and often send me job opportunities. They pay well. I don't see these same jobs posted on the internet. They send it to a handful of people who they have worked together with in the past and one of them takes it.

nice story

Quote:

Plenty of 3rd rate accounting on this board. Teachers exaggerate and the leave out hidden out charges to make themselves fell beter about themselves.

Quote:

It appears that in fact you are the one trying to make yourself feel better about your 2.2 hagwon gig. Or else I really don't know what your agenda is. Oh wait, it's trolling isn't it?

If you read my posts I am not very interested in hogwons except that they are not good.

Quote:

Keep telling that to yourself. People show you numerous examples but you just ignore them.

People use numerous examples where they leave out servence and housing and even medical . They use a different standard to make their jobs seem beter than they are .

Quote:

Yes they can. If you can't, it's your problem. If you don't like university positions, don't go working there. Most likely though you are not qualified enough that is why you are so bitter.

Again you don't know anyones qualifications .

How much is 3.5 after all deductions ?

If a hogwon which paid 2.3 claimed they paid 3.0 because they pay housing, severence and airfare they would get flamed.

So that 3.5 becomes 2.8 before taxes. Now how exactly does someone support a family on that.

You echo university propaganda which makes you an apologist.

While we are at it hHow much is 2.7 - 2.8 in US dollars anyway?

But of all your answers this answer was a gem

Quote:

Yes they can ((support a family and pay back loans on a university salary .) If you can't, it's your problem

Since you are Mr know it all tell us exactly how that works.

You made the claim now deal with it. I am waiting.

Last edited by GENO123 on Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:00 am; edited 2 times in total

GENO123

Joined: 28 Jan 2010

Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:48 am Post subject:

frankhenry wrote:

under qualified, lousy teacher = bitter

you only know I am bitter. Anyone who is bitter is under qualified and a bad teacher -= the Words of an apologist

Any 3.5 isn't much money . How much is that in US dollars. I know" I live in Korea so I don't care". That is a pretty weak answer in the end.

This is special for you Frank . I guess all the people who wrote the following are under qualified and bitter.

People who say what you do are apologists .

I think this is more specific than your examples: I see the guy below has an MA TESOL . Are you more qualified than he is ?

Hong IK

Quote:

don't forget our friends at Hongik Univ who are docking teachers 80k/class hour/week when you lose classes to drop you below 15 hours/week. Of course you make it up the following semester as OT but your are only paid 28k/hour for that and can only make up 6 hours/semester

Quote:

My uni job used to be one of the best around until they upped the hours to 15 and changed the contract so we lose 720,000W a month if a class gets cancelled (which happens to about 25% of teachers every semester). I think you know which uni I'm talking about.

I got my MA TESOL in the UK back in 2007 and got it primarily to get my current job, which I started in 2009. I was lucky to get in at the first time of applying a year or two before (it seemed) every other foreign teacher in Korea (and their dogs) had an MA TESOL.

Despite the fact that I'll have 6 years of uni teaching experience (with good evaluations and 'best teacher' awards) and a CELTA at the end of my current contract, I've told my wife not to hold her breath for me to get another uni job if I'm not renewed. In fact I'm almost assuming I'll be opening a study room when the non-renewal comes (if I don't jump before, which I'm seriously considering at the moment -many colleagues have already bailed from this supposedly 'highly-prized' position).

Although of course the vacation is still great, would I study for an MA TESOL now in order to try to get a Korean uni job? You'd have to be nuts.

SungKuenGwan

Quote:

oh, if you were directing that grading comment at me, obviously there's a huge amount of difference in the TYPE of grading one is responsible for and time spent outside of clas...for example at sunggyunwan where they make you teach entire semester of writing classes and then another semester of "presentation" classes (I'm pretty sure SNU is simiar)...there would obviously be significantly more grading time involved (essays) then just teaching some conversation 101class with interchange or whatever..as someone who claims to have taught esl before that should have been blatantly obvious..just saying'!

True or not?

Seoul National

Quote:

SNU USED TO BE the place to work. People were making great salaries (well above 4.0) for 12 contact hours (NO WRITING CLASSES before someone chimes in on the TRUE number of hours required), with housing free or supplemented (can't remember) and annual pay increases. THEN they cut wages, put in term limits, offered no pay increases and whatever else they did to drive out every single experienced teacher there.

I have a few more examples. Let me know what you need.

Last edited by GENO123 on Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:10 am; edited 3 times in total

goat

Joined: 23 Feb 2010

Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:00 am Post subject:

The village idiot is still on the loose.

GENO123

Joined: 28 Jan 2010

Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:03 am Post subject:

goat wrote:

GENO123 wrote:

goat wrote:

My colleagues and I are provided good working conditions.

Minimal expenses

Goat wrote:

Quote:

Congratulations!

I agree. Most of the good university teachers can live on the money they make during the winter and summer breaks while saving their regular salary; that is, if they so choose. 5~10 million extra yearly isn't a problem for the GOOD teachers. This more than covers what doing outside privates would earn. Plus, they don't have to do the run around.

wow so you can live on what you earn during the vacations while saving your salary . How does that work ?

Notice also the aplogizing for Universities trying to stuff F visas.

U R an

Apologist and excuse maker and rationalizer.

goat

Joined: 23 Feb 2010

Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:24 am Post subject:

GENO123 wrote:

goat wrote:

GENO123 wrote:

goat wrote:

My colleagues and I are provided good working conditions.

Minimal expenses

Goat wrote:

Quote:

1.8k coming in from a rental property. We invested the salary. This is what smart teachers do.

Sorry to hear you aren't bringing enough in to pay your debts, take care of the wife, and properly feed the kids. You should have saved and invested earlier instead of sitting outside the neighborhood 7-Eleven drinking Hite and eating noodles.

Oh well……. looks like you will be on the dole when you return home.

GENO123

Joined: 28 Jan 2010

Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:38 am Post subject:

That is entirely un related to teaching. As for me i shorted the yen. You better hope the property market doesnt crash again. Otherwise you will be underwater in no time. If the property market goes bust. Will that means you are not as good of a teacher? Hope you didnt buy your place in korea. Other than a few select locations the Korean real estate market looks pretty tired when you consider the demographics and how leveraged families are. That you went so off topic shows u r an apologist who wishes to stop anyone from saying bad stuff about universities . you are a light weight. Did you get your ma online too? Anyway how does what you said make a university salary good? How much debt you got on your rental?

Lazio

Joined: 15 Dec 2010

Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:42 am Post subject:

GENO123 wrote:

If you don't include severence and housing you are inflating. You are guilty of inflating .

And you are guilty of trolling.

Quote:

you don't know what I earn only that I stated that the average rate is between 30 and 40

You base that on online job openings which have been pointed out are actually under the real rates. If you are familiar with the real rates, you shouldn’t really care about the online rates.

Quote:

He didn't work 12 or 13 hours a day. He worked between 6-8.

Let’s see, it was: 1-2 company classes in the morning 2-3 hours kindergarten, 3 hours after school and say 2 hours of privates or company classes in the evening. That is 8-10 hours of teaching (not including the optional kindy privates and late night shift) and out of the house from 6 AM until 8 PM at the very least. That is a 14 hour long day. All this for 4m? You can see that it doesn’t add up, can’t you? Okay I help 60k business, 80k kindy, 105k early afternoon hagwon that is already 245 for the day and I only used 1 hour of company class and 2 hours of kindy. And it’s still just 5pm. Doing this 20 days a month gets you to 4.9m. You add just one private at 50k for each evening and already at 5.9 million. And it’s still just 7pm. I’m not making this up. It’s all in your quoted post.
Let me know if you need more help with the calculation.

Quote:

If you read my posts I am not very interested in hogwons except that they are not good.

So really, what is your point will all this? Trying to steer people away from Korea to protect your lifeline ESL job? That is just sad.

Quote:

Again you don't know anyones qualifications .

Judging from you writing…

Quote:

How much is 3.5 after all deductions ?

If a hogwon which paid 2.3 claimed they paid 3.0 because they pay housing, severence and airfare they would get flamed.

So that 3.5 becomes 2.8 before taxes. Now how exactly does someone support a family on that.

So where does that money go between 3.5 and 2.8? You just deducted it so it vanishes? No, it’s there, on the bank account and it pays for things, a lot of things.

Quote:

You echo university propaganda which makes you an apologist.

I don’t care about working conditions and salaries at universities. I’ve never worked at one and have no desire to do so. I know people who work there and they are doing alright. Why are you so hung up on the universities? Why do you care? You got yourself fired or what?

Quote:

While we are at it hHow much is 2.7 - 2.8 in US dollars anyway?

Why should I care? I’m not from the US. In fact, the won gained about 60 percent against my country’s currency over the last 6-7 years. That tells more about the country I call home though but it still makes moving back something to look forward to.

Quote:

But of all your answers this answer was a gem

Quote:

Yes they can ((support a family and pay back loans on a university salary .) If you can't, it's your problem

Since you are Mr know it all tell us exactly how that works.

You made the claim now deal with it. I am waiting.

Family of 3 here. We spend 1.8-1.9 a month including our mortgage interest and live reasonably well. On a 3. something university NET salary 1 million would go to savings each month easily. We put away well over that.
You can’t live off of that budget? I believe you. Can others live on that budget? Most certainly can, even less. How much you think the average blue collar worker makes here? Can they support their families? I don’t see many kids begging on the streets so I assume yes. If they can’t live on one income, the wife works too. It’s that simple.
I think you are frustrated because of bad money management skills, a demanding wife and a pretentious upper-middle class lifestyle. Deal with it and try to realize that others do things differently. .

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