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tophatcat
Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Location: under the hat
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 Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 6:42 am Post subject: |
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| Who would want this guy working for them? Not me. I've had these complaining coworkers in the past too. Totally ruins it for everyone. He isn't happy and wants to make everyone else miserable. He can't stand to see others happy. |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 7:02 am Post subject: |
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| tophatcat wrote: |
| Who would want this guy working for them? Not me. I've had these complaining coworkers in the past too. Totally ruins it for everyone. He isn't happy and wants to make everyone else miserable. He can't stand to see others happy. |
keep everyone silent. Ah that is the ticket .
Who would want to work with you since you sell out others to get ahead. Blood money. I have seen these types they spy on their coworkers to get points with the boss
Ah Blood money.
Remember TopHateCate you are lame.
Last edited by GENO123 on Tue Jan 12, 2016 7:15 am; edited 1 time in total |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 7:12 am Post subject: |
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Unis have used illegal tactics for a while. Several unis, including SNU, have been sued successfully in recent years.
For many of the unis, they want to lower the student teacher ratio to increase ratings. So they hire lots of foreigners and tll them follow a specific syllabus.
As for SNU, if you worked there you would be very shocked at how pathetic they aree. |
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tophatcat
Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Location: under the hat
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| Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| All the name calling is childish. Really childish! It's not what a professional university instructor does. Even a kindy teacher shouldn't be doing it. It's childish! Not professional! |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| tophatcat wrote: |
| All the name calling is childish. Really childish! It's not what a professional university instructor does. Even a kindy teacher shouldn't be doing it. It's childish! Not professional! |
At at any rate
How much is 2.7m ~ 2.8m take home in US dollars?
Can someone support a family / pay back a loan on a university salary? (I guess you could do you could do extra work but it is not allowed by the university .)
Universities don't pay severance do they?
Last "contact hours" means nothing whatsoever. Only total total work and trouble compared to total pay. |
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tob55
Joined: 29 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| GENO123 wrote: |
| tophatcat wrote: |
| All the name calling is childish. Really childish! It's not what a professional university instructor does. Even a kindy teacher shouldn't be doing it. It's childish! Not professional! |
At at any rate
How much is 2.7m ~ 2.8m take home in US dollars?
Can someone support a family / pay back a loan on a university salary? (I guess you could do you could do extra work but it is not allowed by the university .)
Universities don't pay severance do they?
Last "contact hours" means nothing whatsoever. Only total total work and trouble compared to total pay. |
I have read through all the threads in this post, and I have to make one or two comments that will hopefully put this into perspective.
1) No one was begged to come to Korea and teach, and most if not all people realized that the pay in this country was not going be any where on the level of the countries from which they came, unless they were coming from another country with similar or lower pay standards than the big 6 or 7.
2) GENO123 is right to a point, the pay received by foreign workers isn't adequate to support a family or pay off student loans back home, but were are not living back home, and the pay standards for ALL foreign workers have been the same for the past 10-15+ years now regarding the work done by 'contract' workers doing what most foreigners in Korea do.
3) Those willing and able to secure F-visas allowing them the opportunity to do more in terms of work here in Korea find it somewhat easier to earn more money, and even if universities claim that employees are not eligible to work beyond their contract hours, most universities do have some written or stipulated policy allowing this type of activity. Sure it means more working hours for people, but most find ways to make it work for them.
4) Making judgment calls about the 'fairness' of Korean labor practices is nothing more than blowing into the wind and expecting that Korean employers will do anything that represents 'fairness' to the foreign workers they employ.
5) Some people, including myself, made the decision to make the jump to dual citizenship so there would be a possibility of making life here in Korea more 'normal.' Has it made a tremendous difference in my life? Yes and no, but I realized something by doing the things I have over the past 11 1/2 years now.
a. After working as an adjunct professor in several universities back home for 14 years, as well being a public school teacher for more than 20 years, I understand nothing will be the same in terms of pay here.
b. The intangibles I have in my favor, lower taxes, steady employment, cheap and affordable health care, and a relatively safe living environment for my family, compared to the wanton crime and senseless violence I read about everyday back home (which seems to be getting worse and not better), make staying in Korea a good choice for me. Others may feel different .
c. After working 6 years at my current university, I am hopeful to secure another contract to work for one more year. The conditions have been much less than desired, but until a better opportunity arises I will stay put. In 6 years I received a grand total of 1 pay raise for a paltry amount of money that wouldn't even pay one of my bills, but I have stuck it out.
The bottom line of my post is this, rather than complaining about the terrible work conditions and pay most are faced with, perhaps people should consider leaving and going back home to see what they can do. I tell a good friend of mine regularly when they are complaining about how 'bad' Korea is, they should be thankful they have a job, a place to live that the university is providing for them, and some medical insurance to help is they have a need for it.
Really, if life in Korea is so bad, then the option is quite simple, don't stay some place you don't like, regardless of the reason. Go somewhere else where you can find the money and satisfaction you are looking for. Things are not going to change for any of the foreign population any time soon. Things will remain pretty much the same and if the Korean employers can do it, they will get more from the workers for less. That's the way the system and culture works in Korea.
Not angry or wanting to debate anyone on this issue, but just wanted to input my observations about the conversation. GENO123, sorry I mentioned you personally in my thread, but you seem to have a passion about this topic. No personal attack is meant towards you or anyone else. Cheers  |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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Universities are responsible for the conditions they offer. Whay oght they be allowed to control the narative? That they try to stuff F visas. is also something on them.
The free flow of information is in the public interest. Accountability is also in the public interest. |
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tob55
Joined: 29 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| GENO123 wrote: |
Universities are responsible for the conditions they offer.
( You are right, but try getting ANY person in a position of management or responsibility to sit across from the workers and discussion things in a sensible or rational way. Just not going to happen, and they know it.)
What ought they be allowed to control the narrative?
( Right again, it should be open and transparent, but once again, they do things whether legal or illegal and then fall back on (1) their position or (2) the power structure of the particular university to justify their decisions and actions)
That they try to stuff F visas. is also something on them.
( Right a third time. what they did not realize in my case was this very thing. As contract employees, foreigners are not considered regular or full-time employees, which according to labor standards makes any addition to the contract restricting employment of part time workers from having more than one job invalid, regardless of what the contract says. Challenged my employer on it and won.)
The free flow of information is in the public interest. Accountability is also in the public interest.
( I agree with you on all points, but what you are suggesting amounts to the creation of a foreign labor union to negotiate the labor rights of foreign workers and Korea is never and I mean never going to let that happen.) |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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I agree the chance of labor union coming about is less t slim and none. A message board is far from adequate but it is better than nothing.
Many Korean universities require a warning and/ or hazardous label . |
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tob55
Joined: 29 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| GENO123 wrote: |
I agree the chance of labor union coming about is less t slim and none. A message board is far from adequate but it is better than nothing.
Many Korean universities require a warning and/ or hazardous label . |
I wholeheartedly agree with your final assessment quoted above. The trend appears to be more along the lines of making working conditions worse, while maintaining and lowering any potential opportunities for advancement or pay increases.
I understand why so many people have taken to social media and sites like this to vent their frustrations, but it is hardly enough to get anything done. Make no mistake, foreigners are seen as little better than work slaves to the whims of people in leadership. I had an office manager tell me and my wife to our face at a meeting we were having to try and get time off so I could have surgery, that as foreign workers at the university, the janitors who scrubbed the toilets at the department I worked in were considered on a higher level than the foreign faculty who were hired to teach credit and non-credit language classes.
What bothers me about the statement is that this is the thinking and mentality of management on the whole, and it was quite obvious that they have no intention of making it any better for any foreign employee. Yet, they will lie in their advertisements for employment, which Dave's currently has on the Jobs Board, and make the university look like it is the one of the best institutions in the country. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| tob55 wrote: |
| GENO123 wrote: |
I agree the chance of labor union coming about is less t slim and none. A message board is far from adequate but it is better than nothing.
Many Korean universities require a warning and/ or hazardous label . |
I wholeheartedly agree with your final assessment quoted above. The trend appears to be more along the lines of making working conditions worse, while maintaining and lowering any potential opportunities for advancement or pay increases.
I understand why so many people have taken to social media and sites like this to vent their frustrations, but it is hardly enough to get anything done. Make no mistake, foreigners are seen as little better than work slaves to the whims of people in leadership. I had an office manager tell me and my wife to our face at a meeting we were having to try and get time off so I could have surgery, that as foreign workers at the university, the janitors who scrubbed the toilets at the department I worked in were considered on a higher level than the foreign faculty who were hired to teach credit and non-credit language classes.
What bothers me about the statement is that this is the thinking and mentality of management on the whole, and it was quite obvious that they have no intention of making it any better for any foreign employee. Yet, they will lie in their advertisements for employment, which Dave's currently has on the Jobs Board, and make the university look like it is the one of the best institutions in the country. |
Korean universities have always believed the only thing you need to be able to teach English at university level is to be a native speaker and until they change their attitude to this, one foreigner will always be as good as another. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:34 am Post subject: |
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| GENO123 wrote: |
| Cause you have a lucrative business in getting teachers to Korea? I think your info is kind of tainted. Deep conflict of interest. |
Who's the guy behind this?
https://duj4weekintensive.com/program
For just 357,000 won you can get:
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| The most current, cutting edge information, tactics, techniques, and secret 'ninja hacks' that practically guarantee you the university job of your dreams. |
The guy's probably going to make bank. If just 100 people sign up, that's $30k right there. |
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candy bar
Joined: 03 Dec 2012
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| Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:55 am Post subject: |
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| Become a rockstar University Professor. |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| GENO123 wrote: |
| Cause you have a lucrative business in getting teachers to Korea? I think your info is kind of tainted. Deep conflict of interest. |
Who's the guy behind this?
https://duj4weekintensive.com/program
For just 357,000 won you can get:
| Quote: |
| The most current, cutting edge information, tactics, techniques, and secret 'ninja hacks' that practically guarantee you the university job of your dreams. |
The guy's probably going to make bank. If just 100 people sign up, that's $30k right there. |
That would explain a lot. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| If more than one person (This guy and the woman who wrote the book)reckon they can make money out of showing people how to get Korean university jobs, it suggests they aren't quite as bad as Geno, WT and others would have us believe. |
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