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randini667
Joined: 19 Jan 2015
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 Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:34 pm Post subject: Finish contract, E2 transfer, LOR denied, now??? ttompatz? |
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I have a situation that has become quite a challenge for me. Wondering anyone can confirm my thinking? It's a complicated situation with lots of interesting and cruel details, but I'm trying to strip this down to just the core of the issue so I can solve this. Any additional details can be provided.
Finished Contract Aug 19. Received severance, all good.
(ACR expires Oct 31.)
Went to Immigration Sep 20 to transfer E2 to new employer, old boss unbeknownst, shows up and interjects.
Now LOR requested.
LOR is being denied.
(You know the drill... They are playing hard ball. Old boss has connections at immi. etc etc)
Application is pending, they gave me "Certificate of Application for Permit to Stay"
Immigration has my ARC.
So, No LOR means no go...
(Side note: Supposed to travel to China Sep 30 with my brother. Thinking this is unlikely now.)
Most important: I just want to get a new visa, get to work and move on!
1. Is my next best option to leave and return as a tourist and start a new E2? I'm thinking at this point I should treat the situation as if I quit, is this right? (I'm afraid to proceed because they are on my back.)
2. Can I get my ARC back from immigration so I can travel? I had plans to travel next week, do I cancel the plane ticket?
I'm loosing so much sleep from this situation, any experienced advice would be MUCH appreciated! |
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Chia Pet
Joined: 23 Jun 2013
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| Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:55 am Post subject: |
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I thought if you finished your contract you wouldn't need a release letter. But are you saying Immigration is making an unfortunate exception for you because your old boss showed up there? Why would Immigration do that? And why would your boss show up there? Did you damage his business after you left? Or did you just rub him the wrong way?
You may have to let your old visa expire, but go back to Immigration and ask what your options are. Too bad you may have to let go of the job you were about to take and get documents for a new visa.
I can't stand the release letter rule. It opens you up to abuse from a thievish or a-hole director, as it's up to their whim whether you are allowed to get a new job to earn an income. The Immigration officers I've talked with in the past have generally been polite, professional, and reasonable, but whatever higher-ups implemented the release letter policy must be ignorant and get pleasure out of seeing foreigners get screwed. |
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randini667
Joined: 19 Jan 2015
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| Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| Chia Pet wrote: |
| I thought if you finished your contract you wouldn't need a release letter. But are you saying Immigration is making an unfortunate exception for you because your old boss showed up there? Why would Immigration do that? And why would your boss show up there? Did you damage his business after you left? Or did you just rub him the wrong way? |
It's beyond my comprehension and has hardened my heart. So, I'm purposely trying to move past the reasoning. From what I read about Korean hagwon psyche and culture, these situations are not rare. Wish I could quote this, but doing research I read a post explaining that "not renewing" in some cultures is a sort of "slap in the face." I was a damn good employee, except I didn't renew.
| Chia Pet wrote: |
| You may have to let your old visa expire, but go back to Immigration and ask what your options are. Too bad you may have to let go of the job you were about to take and get documents for a new visa. |
Since the old boss has friends at immigration, I'm wondering what sort of "options" they will give me. I guessing that even if I knew my rights, I'm at their mercy. |
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Overture1928
Joined: 12 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| How does your ARC expire Oct 31? Usually they expire exactly 1 month after your contract ends, so that would be Sept. 19. What about switching to D10 (looking for work visa), then switching to E2 later when you find a job. If you move to tourist visa you are going to have to do an immigration run to Japan when you finally do find a new job so you can change to E2. I don't understand how your old job can have any influence, contracts up, you got severance, time to go your own ways, you shouldn't need a letter of release because you finished your contract, your severance should be proof of that. These sort of stories just infuriate me. The lack of protection for foreign workers is so frustrating. |
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randini667
Joined: 19 Jan 2015
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| Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Overture1928 wrote: |
| How does your ARC expire Oct 31? Usually they expire exactly 1 month after your contract ends, so that would be Sept. 19. What about switching to D10 (looking for work visa), then switching to E2 later when you find a job. |
From what I understand, the e2-D10-e2 route would still require the Letter of Release. I'll have do double check myself. I already have a job, they need me to resolve this so I can get going!
I don't know why my arc expires late. I can only guess there was some advantage for my sponsor to do this. |
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Chia Pet
Joined: 23 Jun 2013
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| Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| randini667 wrote: |
| Is my next best option to leave and return as a tourist and start a new E2? |
No, not before you go back and talk to Immigration some more. If some official(s) is corrupt or xenophobic enough to block your visa transfer just because your ex-boss wants them to, there's a chance they could also put a mark on your record so you can't get a new visa easily. You don't want a surprise when you come back as a tourist.
| randini667 wrote: |
| Went to Immigration Sep 20 to transfer E2 to new employer, old boss unbeknownst, shows up and interjects. |
The way you wrote this makes it sound like your old boss was at Immigration at the same time you were and walked up to the desk just as you tried to transfer your visa. He really went through all that trouble? Or had he already contacted Immigration at an earlier time?
Either way, this is an injustice, and if I were you I'd go back to the Immigration office you went to and write down what desk # you were at during your original visit, along with what date and time you made the visit. Hopefully you can remember. If you are bold enough, you could walk up to the desk and get the officer's name directly. After that I'd go to a different Immigration office and explain your situation. It would be good for other officers in the organization to know about whoever is connected with your ex-boss. You can also find out more about your status, and if you're lucky, you may be able get things back in order.
After this is finished I hope you let others know about your ex-boss. Immigration's release letter rule is wrong, and it's too bad you ended up with an employer who chose to abuse it. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:45 am Post subject: |
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| The boss might "know someone at Immigration"; however, nobody at Immigration knows the boss. Workers at immigration are transferred every couple of years to avoid such nonsense as the boss is tossing your way. The only thing the boss can do at Immigration to muck up your life is to report you for a visa violation. Run up Immigration's chain of supervision/command until you get to someone who both knows what they're doing and has the power to bring this nonsense to a quick end. |
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randini667
Joined: 19 Jan 2015
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| Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| No, not before you go back and talk to Immigration some more. |
This is the plan at the moment.
| Quote: |
| The way you wrote this makes it sound like your old boss was at Immigration at the same time you were and walked up to the desk just as you tried to transfer your visa. He really went through all that trouble? Or had he already contacted Immigration at an earlier time? |
Yes, in the middle of my application process. Sorry for the vague answers, I'm not here to flame, rant, or cause more problems for myself. I'm afraid about saying too much at the moment. |
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randini667
Joined: 19 Jan 2015
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| Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
| The boss might "know someone at Immigration"; however, nobody at Immigration knows the boss. Workers at immigration are transferred every couple of years to avoid such nonsense as the boss is tossing your way. The only thing the boss can do at Immigration to muck up your life is to report you for a visa violation. Run up Immigration's chain of supervision/command until you get to someone who both knows what they're doing and has the power to bring this nonsense to a quick end. |
Because I live in a specific city, I go to a specific Immigration office. A former student of mine has a parent who works there and is good friends with the boss. I was introduced to this person at immigration by my former boss when they were doing their paperwork during my appointment.
I've run up the chain of command with my new boss. Provided documentation, bank statements, contract, showing that I worked the required 12 months and have severance. I heard my contract was adjusted so that it looks like I signed for 13 months and quit at the 12 month mark.
Anyways, the chain of command also insists on getting a letter. I'll return and ask them what my options are. |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:29 pm Post subject: Re: Finish contract, E2 transfer, LOR denied, now??? ttompa |
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| randini667 wrote: |
I have a situation that has become quite a challenge for me. Wondering anyone can confirm my thinking? It's a complicated situation with lots of interesting and cruel details, but I'm trying to strip this down to just the core of the issue so I can solve this. Any additional details can be provided.
Finished Contract Aug 19. Received severance, all good.
(ACR expires Oct 31.)
Went to Immigration Sep 20 to transfer E2 to new employer, old boss unbeknownst, shows up and interjects.
Now LOR requested.
LOR is being denied.
(You know the drill... They are playing hard ball. Old boss has connections at immi. etc etc)
Application is pending, they gave me "Certificate of Application for Permit to Stay"
Immigration has my ARC.
So, No LOR means no go...
(Side note: Supposed to travel to China Sep 30 with my brother. Thinking this is unlikely now.)
Most important: I just want to get a new visa, get to work and move on!
1. Is my next best option to leave and return as a tourist and start a new E2? I'm thinking at this point I should treat the situation as if I quit, is this right? (I'm afraid to proceed because they are on my back.)
2. Can I get my ARC back from immigration so I can travel? I had plans to travel next week, do I cancel the plane ticket?
I'm loosing so much sleep from this situation, any experienced advice would be MUCH appreciated! |
IF the original contact is complete, show the contract as complete and the LOR is a non-issue.
Pick a new clerk is who less connected to your old boss.
Exit and re-enter is always an option if your ARC is expiring anyway.
If you quit early then or have more than 30 days remaining on your ARC (usually due to working for a month or 3 on a tourist stamp at the beginning of your contract) then a depart and return or a LOR are required.
. |
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randini667
Joined: 19 Jan 2015
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| Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 8:21 pm Post subject: Re: Finish contract, E2 transfer, LOR denied, now??? ttompa |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
IF the original contact is complete, show the contract as complete and the LOR is a non-issue.
Pick a new clerk is who less connected to your old boss.
Exit and re-enter is always an option if your ARC is expiring anyway.
If you quit early then or have more than 30 days remaining on your ARC (usually due to working for a month or 3 on a tourist stamp at the beginning of your contract) then a depart and return or a LOR are required.
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I can't show the original contract is complete. I have a copy of my contract, signed by my boss, but they didn't write in the start/end dates before signing. This was my huge oversight being naive and new to the system. We've heard the story many times. I can see now a LOR is an issue.
I will highly consider the quit-early/depart-return option.
Thanks everyone! Hearing your advice gives me hope! Thanks for sharing the knowledge. |
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Chia Pet
Joined: 23 Jun 2013
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| Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
| Workers at immigration are transferred every couple of years |
Really? Has anyone else heard that? (Not that it matters that much.)
| randini667 wrote: |
| I can't show the original contract is complete. I have a copy of my contract, signed by my boss, but they didn't write in the start/end dates before signing. This was my huge oversight being naive and new to the system. |
| randini667 wrote: |
| I heard my contract was adjusted so that it looks like I signed for 13 months and quit at the 12 month mark. |
Oh, that explains things. So technically you didn't finish the contract that Immigration has. I'm not so upset at your Immigration office now, though they probably see the nonsense that's going on and are being hard asses nonetheless. You were too trusting and your ex-boss seems like a real snake.
| randini667 wrote: |
| Because I live in a specific city, I go to a specific Immigration office. A former student of mine has a parent who works there and is good friends with the boss. |
So it seems like your new job was/is going to be in the same (small?) city. Perhaps your new academy is a direct competitor with your old academy, and that's why your old boss is interfering. Maybe he's losing students to the new academy and he's worried parents will wonder why his teacher moved there too.
As far as I'm concerned your ex-boss deserves to go out of business.
| randini667 wrote: |
| Sorry for the vague answers, I'm not here to flame, rant, or cause more problems for myself. I'm afraid about saying too much at the moment. |
Of course don't cause problems for yourself while you're trying to resolve this issue, but to help clean up this shoddy industry in the future, I hope someday you'll let others know about your ex-boss.
| randini667 wrote: |
| I will highly consider the quit-early/depart-return option. |
I didn't understand Ttompatz's post and I'm not sure you did either. He said "depart/return" is an option, but seemed to contradict himself about whether you can do that with more than 30 days left on your visa. I think if you are from the U.S. "depart/return" will definitely not work if you did not finish the contract yet (Ttompatz wrote that somewhere else), since you'll have a "multiple entry" visa. Anyway, if you try the "depart/return option," won't you need new visa documents to get a new visa? Are you allowed to work on a tourist visa until your new documents arrive? Ask Immigration.
Maybe you can just try transferring your visa again at Immigration after October 1st. The end date (October 31st) of your visa suggests that your contract was set to end September 30th or October 1st. Then maybe no release letter will be required. It could be that simple. |
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randini667
Joined: 19 Jan 2015
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:04 am Post subject: |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
Exit and re-enter is always an option if your ARC is expiring anyway.
If you quit early then or have more than 30 days remaining on your ARC (usually due to working for a month or 3 on a tourist stamp at the beginning of your contract) then a depart and return or a LOR are required. |
@Chia Pet
Here's how I read ttompatz's post... If either A) quit early or b)more then 30 days on ARC is true at anytime, then "a depart and return or a LOR are required."
In my case, A) quit early will always to true, then "a depart and return or a LOR are required."
Question: Should I protect my assets in anyway. My bank account or new apartment lease? |
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Chia Pet
Joined: 23 Jun 2013
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 9:25 am Post subject: |
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| randini667 wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
Exit and re-enter is always an option if your ARC is expiring anyway.
If you quit early then or have more than 30 days remaining on your ARC (usually due to working for a month or 3 on a tourist stamp at the beginning of your contract) then a depart and return or a LOR are required. |
@Chia Pet
Here's how I read ttompatz's post... If either A) quit early or b)more then 30 days on ARC is true at anytime, then "a depart and return or a LOR are required."
In my case, A) quit early will always to true, then "a depart and return or a LOR are required."
Question: Should I protect my assets in anyway. My bank account or new apartment lease? |
I agree Ttompatz is the most knowledgeable person on here about laws, but don't rely too heavily on one post by him or anyone, especially since it looks like he wrote it quickly, and don't ignore other people's input.
Your bank account and lease should not be concerns, but you still have other things to worry about.
As I tried to warn you, if you quit early and depart/return you may need new visa documents to take a new job. I don't know. Ask Immigration.
Once a contract is finished you shouldn't need a release letter, so as I tried to point out, you may be able to transfer your visa after October 1st, without any need for new visa documents. Ask Immigration, whose actions regarding your situation seem to have nothing to do with your ex-boss' connections. They are just following their policies (fair or not), and this happened partly because you weren't careful enough last year. I wouldn't start packing for that trip to China just yet. |
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randini667
Joined: 19 Jan 2015
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Chia Pet wrote: |
Once a contract is finished you shouldn't need a release letter, so as I tried to point out, you may be able to transfer your visa after October 1st, without any need for new visa documents. Ask Immigration, whose actions regarding your situation seem to have nothing to do with your ex-boss' connections. They are just following their policies (fair or not), and this happened partly because you weren't careful enough last year. I wouldn't start packing for that trip to China just yet. |
What do you mean by "contract is finished?" does that mean the finish date on record has passed or does it mean I fulfilled the contract? I have to treat my situation as: I quit my job, however my contract finish date has passed. Is my situation "contract finished?" |
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