Site Search:
 
Speak Korean Now!
Teach English Abroad and Get Paid to see the World!
Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Trump separates kids from parents to satisfy his evil base.

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Current Events Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Rteacher



Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:33 pm    Post subject: Trump separates kids from parents to satisfy his evil base. Reply with quote

America used to be a beacon for poor/oppressed refugees seeking shelter and a better life for their families, but in the malevolent Trump era it's instituted a "zero tolerance" policy that tears away infants and toddlers from their mothers, incarcerating them in "tender age shelters", causing further trauma and anxiety to those already in a distressed condition (because Trump doesn't want them to "infest" our country...)
http://time.com/5316764/toddler-immigrants-tender-age-shelters/

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2018/jun/19/why-are-families-being-separated-at-the-southern-us-border-video-explainer

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/06/separating-families-at-the-border-shows-exactly-what-the-trump-administration-thinks-of-immigrants.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whats his base, exactly? I thought it was conservative evangelicals.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/19/family-separations-evangelicals-ralph-reed-654094

Quote:
The letter from Chairman Ralph Reed and Executive Director Timothy Head stopped short of criticizing Trump‘s border policy itself, which has resulted in more than 2,000 unaccompanied children being held in tents and warehouses along the U.S.-Mexico border.

“The separation of families illegally crossing the border is heartbreaking and tragic, part the larger tragedy of a broken immigration system that does not reflect our values or our faith,” they wrote. “The Bible instructs God’s people to show compassion and love for the foreigner and the immigrant. Scripture combines this obligation to care for the alien with a corollary responsibility of the immigrant to obey the law and respect the customs of the nation in which he resides. How these principles apply to immigration reform is a matter of prudential judgment in enacting sound public policy.”


They do not seem too happy.

Quote:
As a community, evangelicals wear a multitude of political stripes, but with few exceptions Trump’s treatment of families at the border has all but unified them. Hundreds have been speaking from the pulpit, tweeting and writing letters to the White House.

“What‘s unique about this moment is that it transcends all the usual ideological and political boundaries. I know of very few religious people of any stripe who are not morally appalled by what’s happening on the border right now,” said Russell Moore, president of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention, the country’s largest Protestant denomination.


Expect Trump to retreat quickly.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Expect Trump to retreat quickly.


I dunno. There's a certain blind-loyalty to Trump's evangelical support. I think a lot of them, especially at the grassroots, will probably stick with him, regardless of what a few wonks at the top have to say about immigration.

So I'd question whether this does any significant electoral damage to Trump.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rteacher



Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The so-called Christian evangelists had no problem overlooking Trump's sexual exploits (as long as he fights legal abortion), and they do tend to blindly follow their own crooked televangelists, but the white nationalist/supremacist faction of his supporters probably care the most about keeping brown-skinned people from gaining entrance to/influence in the U.S.

Republican politicians cynically see the caging of babies issue in terms of how it impacts their re-election chances locally, while on the national level immigrants are generally seen as future Democrats.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_nationalism
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:

Expect Trump to retreat quickly.


Trump retreats quickly.

Quote:
WASHINGTON — President Trump caved to enormous political pressure on Wednesday and signed an executive order meant to end the separation of families at the border by detaining parents and children together for an indefinite period.

“We’re going to have strong — very strong — borders, but we are going to keep the families together,” Mr. Trump said as he signed the order in the Oval Office. “I didn’t like the sight or the feeling of families being separated.”


But, as the Administration suggested, this might not be a durable policy without additional legislation:

Quote:
But Justice Department officials said it was not clear whether the practice of separating families could resume after 20 days if a federal judge refuses to give the government the authority it wants to hold families together for a longer period.


Since "The president’s four-page order says that officials will continue to criminally prosecute everyone who crosses the border illegally," the matter is going to be forced. There's a certain irony here: if judges try to stop what the President has done with this executive order, he will be proven right that enforcing the criminal code results in this dilemma absent legislative action*. By contrast, if the judiciary allows him to do it, then he will be proven wrong, but be able to continue with "no tolerance" enforcement of the criminal code without upsetting the family-values portion of his base. Given the President essentially gets his way in either case, this retreat actually makes sense on a tactical level.

Will the courts allow the Administration to hold children along with their parents for more than 20 days? Well, the matter has already been litigated, hasn't it?

Quote:
The executive order calls on Attorney General Jeff Sessions to file a request with a federal court in California to modify a 1997 court settlement which sets standards for the government’s detention of migrant children, so that migrant families could be detained together through their criminal proceedings for illegal entry charges and for any other immigration proceedings.

Previously, as a result of that settlement, known as the Flores decision, children could not be detained with their families for more than 20 days. The Trump administration may now try to defy that time limit and hold the families until the parents can have their cases adjudicated, since they will continue to be prosecuted for crossing the border illegally.

...

The settlement requires immigration authorities to release children “without unnecessary delay” to a parent, legal guardian, or other adult relative and for those children placed in the least restrictive setting possible.

And in 2015 under the Obama administration, a federal judge ruled that Flores applied to migrant children who came with their parents, not just children who came alone. An appeals court confirmed that decision a year later.

The executive order states that the Justice Department will file a request in federal court to modify the Flores decision in order to detain families for the duration of their criminal proceedings. It is not clear if they will hold the families longer than 20 days while a ruling is pending.

Denise Gilman, director of the University of Texas Law School immigration clinic, said Trump’s plan to detain children and parents facing prosecution for illegally crossing the border “basically throws us right back to the worst days of 2014.”

When the Obama administration decided to hold children and families — initially in a facility in Artesia, New Mexico — the detentions were prolonged and families were held in “prison-like facilities without any real hopes to be released even if they didn’t represent any flight risk or danger,” Gilman said.

...

If that request is not granted, or until it is, holding families indefinitely in detention will be in conflict with federal courts.


Maybe I'm just misreading this somehow, but it looks like the Administration's reading of the law (expect for the part calling it a "Democrat law") and court rulings as things stand was essentially correct, but since their opponents refused to acknowledge that, he's going to force the courts to reaffirm that he's not allowed to hold families together for a prolonged period. Perhaps the courts will cave and allow his proposed executive band-aid fix, but it's not clear to me on what basis that would occur.

*One could argue that even if these people are to be prosecuted for improper entry, they could be released until their court date. Yet although the figure of 90% of illegal immigrants not showing up for their court dates seems to be incorrect, even conservative estimates suggest 20 to 40% of illegal immigrants do not show up for their court hearings, and the number is higher for children, so effective enforcement is probably going to be predicated upon holding people until their court dates.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rteacher



Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Supreme Court has upheld inherent federal authority to protect national public interest, including immigration policy - even when used to protect slave trade or discriminate against Chinese immigrants.

When the federal government - especially the President - unnecessarily discriminates on the basis of religion, race, ethnicity or socio-economic status, the Court should interpret "national public interest" in light of core American ideals of due process, presumption of innocence, and human dignity...

If the Court reverts to something akin to its slave trade rationale and Congress fails to redress it, the American people should vote Trump's Republican supporters out of Congress, effectively impeach Trump, and elect a more enlightened President ...

http://hrlibrary.umn.edu/immigrationlaw/chapter2.html
https://cliniclegal.org/news/immigration-orders-weaken-core-american-values

Reportedly, the executive order will not re-unite the children already separated from their parents, and Trump's Justice department will request that licensing requirements for detention facilities be waived ...
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-order-address-separations-no-clear-answers-happens-children-shelters-now-214127748.html

Here's the way Fox News (for Trump) put a spin on it ... https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/6/19/1773271/-This-might-have-been-the-most-embarrassing-day-in-the-history-of-the-Fox-News-network?detail=emaildkre


Last edited by Rteacher on Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:01 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes.

If I had to summarize the Trump administration's disposition in two words, it would be:

Bad Faith.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Current Events Forum All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International