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indytrucks
Joined: 09 Apr 2003
Location: The Shelf
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 Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 1:12 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Buck wrote: |
| So, Indy Trucks, I'm doing my small part, and I'm still whining, and complaining and *beep*. |
*stands up and applauds with resounding golf claps*
I hereby nominate you for the Nobel Peace prize. Mother Theresa, move over.
| Quote: |
Go *beep* yourself.
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I love you, too. Rather hostile, aren't we? Forgot the visit to "Dr. Happy" again?  |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 1:52 am Post subject: |
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| indiercj wrote: |
This might help.
Overall Ranking of OECD Nations
on 25 Environmental Indicators
1. Switzerland 9.20
2. Mexico 10.72
3. Turkey 10.74
4. Austria 11.18
5. Netherlands 11.24
6. Germany 11.30
7. Korea 11.62
8. Denmark 11.84
9. Hungary 12.07
10. Sweden 12.25
11. Czech Republic 12.32
12. Portugal 12.82
13. United Kingdom 13.19
14. Poland 13.25
15. Ireland 13.31
16. Greece 13.38
17. Norway 13.40
18. Italy 14.01
19. Spain 14.25
20. Finland 14.32
21. Japan 14.67
22. Luxembourg 15.45
23. France 15.56
24. New Zealand 15.80
25. Belgium 15.89
26. Iceland 16.52
27. Australia 20.58
28. Canada 21.87
29. United States 22.14
The number is each country��s average ranking, out of 29 OECD nations, on the 25 environmental indicators in this report. Each of the twenty-five indicators is given equal weighting.
more information here |
What concerns me the most is this quote which refered to how the organisation got it's sources, "Although the OECD relies largely on information provided by member governments." Not exactly the best way to gather information on a country's environmental record is it?
This report is a far cry from the UN reports which say that Canada is the world's best country to live in! On this list Canada is second from bottom. I'll trust the (impartial) UN on this one thanks.
On a related note, I have never been to another country where I can walk for over an hour (in a city) without finding a litter bin! |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 1:56 am Post subject: |
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| indytrucks wrote: |
| Dr. Buck wrote: |
| So, Indy Trucks, I'm doing my small part, and I'm still whining, and complaining and *beep*. |
*stands up and applauds with resounding golf claps*
I hereby nominate you for the Nobel Peace prize. Mother Theresa, move over.
| Quote: |
Go *beep* yourself.
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I love you, too. Rather hostile, aren't we? Forgot the visit to "Dr. Happy" again? |
So lets get this right. You suggest (arrogantly, and in a very hostile fashion which prompted a response you deserved) that people do something about this country's pollution rather than moan about it. Someone informs you that he is doing just as you suggested, and then you decide to throw insults at him.
By the way, if one doesn't moan about the problem in the first place, how do you expect people to get involved with environmental groups? Troll. |
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Homer
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:10 am Post subject: |
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Demo,
It may (just may) have something to do with high speed modernization and a breakneck growth since the 1970's.
Not to mention over-crowding (which you cannot discard as a reason since more people in smaller areas producing more garbage = pollution).
Also the environmental movement is not as far along as it is "back home".
Finally bad habits do play a part.
Then again the public transit (subway) here is a hell of a lot cleaner than it is back home...less crap everywhere. |
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indytrucks
Joined: 09 Apr 2003
Location: The Shelf
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:26 am Post subject: |
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| Gwangjuboy wrote: |
| Someone informs you that he is doing just as you suggested, and then you decide to throw insults at him. |
Read his original post. I only traded barbs after he suggested I go *beep* myself.
 I love it when people are branded as trolls when they question the moaners (How dare he!! The unadaulted nerve to condradict me!!), yet these are the same folks who delight in such threads as these, "Can't Koreans walk a straight line", "Koreans on Korea", "Getting buff the 'Korean' way" etc. The double standard here sometimes is mind-boggling.
My point was, quite simply, that YES Korea has serious environmental issues that need addressing. People like Dr. Buck who are actually doing something should be commended (in spite of what I wrote earlier). But, if something like environmental issues really generates such passion in people ... DO SOMETHING.
| Quote: |
A little less conversation, a little more action please
All this aggravation ain't satisfactioning me
A little more bite and a little less bark
A little less fight and a little more spark
Elvis Presley |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:46 am Post subject: |
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[quote="indytrucks"]
Read his original post. I only traded barbs after he suggested I go *beep* myself.
[quote]
No. You arrogantly slammed anyone for having the audacity to highlight Korea's environmental issues before any insults were dished out.
| Quote: |
| I love it when people are branded as trolls when they question the moaners (How dare he!! The unadaulted nerve to condradict me!!), yet these are the same folks who delight in such threads as these, "Can't Koreans walk a straight line", "Koreans on Korea" etc. The double standard here sometimes is mind-boggling |
Actually, I can't remember Dr Buck, or the OP engaging in Korea bashing threads too often(indeed that latter has been stauchly pro Korean during his stint on this board). Maybe you can post some evidence that suggests otherwise. Better still, take it up with them. I am sure they are intelligent enough to speak for themselves. This isn't a Korea bashing thread. Highlighting Korea's environmental issues is quite acceptable considering we live here. It's a nice benchmark you've established though. Anyone who points out a country's environmental issues is anti-that particular country. You know that's nonsense, and so do I. |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:50 am Post subject: |
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| indytrucks wrote: |
| The unadaulted nerve to condradict me!!), yet these are the same folks who delight in such threads as these, "Can't Koreans walk a straight line", "Koreans on Korea", "Getting buff the 'Korean' way" etc. The double standard here sometimes is mind-boggling. |
Now, you've made the insinuation, substantiate it. Find a quote of mine that you regard as unadulterated Korea bashing. |
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indytrucks
Joined: 09 Apr 2003
Location: The Shelf
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 3:06 am Post subject: |
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| Gwangjuboy wrote: |
No. You arrogantly slammed anyone for having the audacity to highlight Korea's environmental issues before any insults were dished out. |
Wrong. I provided links to environmental groups in Korea so that those who felt so compelled could act.
| Quote: |
| Actually, I can't remember Dr Buck, or the OP engaging in Korea bashing threads too often(indeed that latter has been stauchly pro Korean during his stint on this board). |
Nor do I.
| Quote: |
| This isn't a Korea bashing thread. |
The words "Korea bashing" never came from me. I simply take issue with being called a troll because of the mere mention of the word "whining".
| Quote: |
| Highlighting Korea's environmental issues is quite acceptable considering we live here. |
Again, absolutely correct. I admitted as much. I will refer you to:
| indytrucks wrote: |
| My point was, quite simply, that YES Korea has serious environmental issues that need addressing. People like Dr. Buck who are actually doing something should be commended (in spite of what I wrote earlier). But, if something like environmental issues really generates such passion in people ... DO SOMETHING |
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| Quote: |
| It's a nice benchmark you've established though. Anyone who points out a country's environmental issues is anti-that particular country. |
Again, if this fiction is what you managed to synthesise from my original post, so be it. |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:09 am Post subject: |
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[quote="indytrucks"]
Wrong. I provided links to environmental groups in Korea so that those who felt so compelled could act.
[quote]
Very nice. But you wanted conversation on the subject curtailed from that point on. No?
[quote]Nor do I.[quote]
Good.
[quote]The words "Korea bashing" never came from me. I simply take issue with being called a troll because of the mere mention of the word "whining".[quote]
So why were you drawing parallels between this thread and other threads which constituted "Korea bashing threads"? Just asking. |
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kiwiboy_nz_99
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:20 am Post subject: |
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| "Doing something" is a drop in the ocean, with no other affect than making yourself feel good. What is needed is nationwide institutionalised change. Sure they're developing and feel the need to spend thier money on more immediately profitable things, but why not more rubbish bins? It Just seems like a no brainer. People have rubbish, they are not going to walk around with it all day. They'll either put it in a convenient rubbish bin or they'll drop it on the ground. |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:21 am Post subject: |
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| Gwangjuboy wrote: |
| So why were you drawing parallels between this thread and other threads which constituted "Korea bashing threads"? Just asking. |
Because I posted in all three of those threads, and indytrucks was insinuating his hate for me. Yea! |
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indytrucks
Joined: 09 Apr 2003
Location: The Shelf
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:24 am Post subject: |
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| Zyzyfer wrote: |
| Because I posted in all three of those threads, and indytrucks was insinuating his hate for me. Yea! |
Rod, tell the man what he's won!  |
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indytrucks
Joined: 09 Apr 2003
Location: The Shelf
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:29 am Post subject: |
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| kiwiboy_nz_99 wrote: |
| "Doing something" is a drop in the ocean, with no other affect than making yourself feel good. |
It's cynical and apathetic attitudes like these that prevent the grandiose notions of sweeping, "nationwide institutional changes" from becoming reality. All those "little drops" are what eventually constitutes the "ocean". Nationwide institutionalised change is a wonderfully grand idea, but one that will never get off the ground without the contribution of all those little drops at the most basic level. Some people actually DO act outside of hedonistic impulses, y'know. |
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Demophobe
Joined: 17 May 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 5:22 am Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
Demo,
It may (just may) have something to do with high speed modernization and a breakneck growth since the 1970's.
Not to mention over-crowding (which you cannot discard as a reason since more people in smaller areas producing more garbage = pollution).
Also the environmental movement is not as far along as it is "back home".
Finally bad habits do play a part.
Then again the public transit (subway) here is a hell of a lot cleaner than it is back home...less crap everywhere. |
Yes, Homer...I am inclined to agree.
Koreans are notoriously in love with money, prestige and power. After the Korean war, this place was a dustbowl, but Koreans could see the writing on the wall. They had just come out of a 40 year occupation, followed by 7 years of political strife between the south, which was pro-USA )democracy/free-market economy) and the north, which was pro-Russia/China (Communist), and then they plunged into the Korean war. When all of the smoke cleared and the armistace was signed, the Koreans in the South could see what they had to do very clearly. Modernize, industrialize...and do it as fast as possible.
This push to catch up to the rest of the indusrialized world is where I see the breakdown between the environment and the people. The environment was not a concern. There is no money to be made on environmental protection....quite contrary. It costs a lot of money to implement and sustain these kinds of programs. They just didn't concern themselves with it. The "shrimp caught in a whale's fight" was going to out-do it's nemesis Japan, come heck or high water, and the environment would just have to wait.
This coupled with strong Confucian influence may bring us to this page.
So, if this theory holds any water, it still doesn't condone their present attitude of total complacency...actually, as antagonists. There are no great TV campaigns informing people about what needs to be done, no government involvement on a grass-roots level (trash cans on the streets, for example) and the poulace still litters and has no regard at all for what isn't theirs or their doing.
If Korea wants to continue to play the modernization game, they are going to have to make up the difference in their social reforms, which lag far behind many other countries. Environmental concerns are paramount these days, and Korea is going to have to get in step with the world, or risk being ostracised again, as a polluting powerhouse.
I realize that they still have bigger fish to fry, what with North Korea still threatening their security, but they have to see the big picture and look past today. This is something which I really believe Koreans lack generally in business. A lack of clear vision and planning. It's as if a part of them believes that tomorrow may never come.
Just some ideas.
Please knock off the fighting in this thread. It's pretty clear what it's about, and if you don't want to join in constructively, then why bother at all?
Thanks. |
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Demophobe
Joined: 17 May 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 5:23 am Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
Demo,
It may (just may) have something to do with high speed modernization and a breakneck growth since the 1970's.
Not to mention over-crowding (which you cannot discard as a reason since more people in smaller areas producing more garbage = pollution).
Also the environmental movement is not as far along as it is "back home".
Finally bad habits do play a part.
Then again the public transit (subway) here is a hell of a lot cleaner than it is back home...less crap everywhere. |
Yes, Homer...I am inclined to agree.
Koreans are notoriously in love with money, prestige and power. After the Korean war, this place was a dustbowl, but Koreans could see the writing on the wall. They had just come out of a 40 year occupation, followed by 7 years of political strife between the south, which was pro-USA (democracy/free-market economy) and the north, which was pro-Russia/China (Communist), and then they plunged into the Korean war. When all of the smoke cleared and the armistace was signed, the Koreans in the South could see what they had to do very clearly. Modernize, industrialize...and do it as fast as possible.
This push to catch up to the rest of the indusrialized world is where I see the breakdown between the environment and the people. The environment was not a concern. There is no money to be made on environmental protection....quite contrary. It costs a lot of money to implement and sustain these kinds of programs. They just didn't concern themselves with it. The "shrimp caught in a whale's fight" was going to out-do it's nemesis Japan, come heck or high water, and the environment would just have to wait.
So, away they went and never looked back. Or in the backyard. Now, we have almost blinded people; they can't see the landfill for the litter. ( what does that mean?!  ) Really, it was said before in this thread....they just don't see it anymore.
This coupled with strong Confucian influence may bring us to this state.
So, if this theory holds any water, it still doesn't condone their present attitude of total complacency...actually, as antagonists. There are no great TV campaigns informing people about what needs to be done, no government involvement on a grass-roots level (trash cans on the streets, for example) and the populace still litters prolifically and has no regard at all for what isn't theirs or their doing.
If Korea wants to continue to play the modernization game, they are going to have to make up the difference in their social reforms, which lag far behind many other countries. Environmental concerns are paramount these days, and Korea is going to have to get in step with the world, or risk being ostracised again, as a polluting powerhouse.
I realize that they still have bigger fish to fry, what with North Korea still threatening their security, but they have to see the big picture and look past today. This is something which I really believe Koreans lack generally in business. A lack of clear vision and planning. It's as if a part of them believes that tomorrow may never come.
Just some ideas.
Please knock off the fighting in this thread. It's pretty clear what it's about, and if you don't want to join in constructively, then why bother at all?
Thanks.
Credits to ulsanchris, kiwiboy_nz_99, Happy Bear, weatherman, dogbert, Eunoia, Dr.Buck, indiercj,hellofaniceguy, Zyzyfer, indytrucks (for the links), GRK, and Homer. Thanks for your input.  |
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