Korean Job Discussion Forums

[marista99]

I'm trying to choose between two job offers. Both have the same start date, same ages of kids, same average class size, single housing, airfare, severance, the standard benefits. But:

Job 1) In Incheon; is managed by an American (thus easy to communicate if there are problems); is a smaller school and only has one other native teacher; I spoke to the director on the phone and had a really good feeling about the whole thing.

Job 2) In Suwon; managed by a Korean; is a larger school with about 15 or 20 foreign teachers; I have emailed several of the foreign teachers and gotten good reports about it; the guy I talked to on the phone was some sort of hiring person (he would not actually be my boss) so I don't know much about the boss him/herself.

So, which one of these would you pick?

[VanIslander]

If I had to choose between those two communities, and those two working environments, I'd be inclined to choose the job with a friendly boss over the possibility of extra meetings and office politics in a larger institute with fifteen foreigners.

But if you are more conservative about risk, and want to minimize possible problems with pay and stability, I say go with the bigger company. It's tough economic times and the larger one won't be cutting the newbie they just invested airfare to get, they'd simply not re-hire teachers near the end of their contracts if customers dwindle.

Or maybe you'd prefer the location of Suwon over Incheon, if those are the only two places you're pondering.

All of the above considerations are more important than the mere fact that your boss would be Korean or American.

In fact, my boss treats me better than any I've ever had back home: those Koreans who are nice have a way of nicely communicating things indirectly, and can avoid making you feel bad about yourself and your performance, even when you are expected to change somehow (just pay attention to the hints and maintain a good relationship).

An alternative: If you want to skip a proximity to Seoul, and go somewhere 40 minutes by cheap ferry from the large coastal city of Busan, then come to Geoje Island and breathe fresh air, eat fresh seafood and visit many beaches (including the one in my avatar). (BTW, not a single inch of snow the last two winters here)

Here's a job offer on Geoje Island I recommend:

http://www.eslcafe.com/jobs/korea/index.cgi?read=12793

Good luck whatever.

[TECO]

Marista,

I wouldn't take either of them or any other job in Korea(or Asia) 'sight unseen.'

Would you buy a car without test-driving it first?

Come over with a couple of grand in your pocket. Walk around and drop in to some of the schools. Talk to the teachers and staff. Check out the work environment and resources.

Sure as sh9t your likely to get burned whether you have a foreign supervisor or not.

Never come over with a recruiter or on someone else's 'dime.'

The decision is yours but use caution.

[marista99]

[VanIslander]

[TECO]

[marista99]

You're right, I don't have the cash. But if I did, I wouldn't want to spend $800 of it on a plane ticket to Korea when I could get an employer to pay that for me.

[inkoreaforgood]

I'd go with the smaller school. Better to be one of two or three than one of 15!! When you need the help, the smaller school is much more likely to jump to and give you a hand. They can't afford to lose you, whereas the large school can say booger off, and cover your classes with overtime for everyone else. Just my opinion, but it strikes me that at the larger school, they are less likely to remember your name.

[phaedrus]

Depends if you are looking to get involved, or forget about your job when you go home everynight.

I would think the big place has more potential for anonymity.

Overall though I think the smaller place would be the best.

Just remember that the American is better able to fluently lie to you on the phone.

[prosodic]

You had a good feeling about the situation when you spoke with the manager of hagwon number 1. That's significant.

He's an American. That means nothing. It doesn't even mean that you'll be able to communicate better. You wrote that you had an obnoxious boss in the US. How well could you communicate with that person? Many of the bad Korean employers understand their employees' complaints. They just don't care. Some of them will pretend not to understand what you are saying just so they can avoid doing anything about it.

More importantly, most of the foreign "managers" in Korea have no real power. Some of them are paid a little extra to act as a buffer between the owners and the foreign staff. That's unlikely to be the case in a school with only two foreign teachers. It's simply not needed. My point is that the nationality of the "manager" has nothing to do with whether or not the situation is good.

Personally, I would be cautious about small hagwons because they're exempt from several labor laws. For example, they don't have to pay severance unless it's in the contract. Even if severance is in the English-language contract, you have to make sure it's in the Korean-language contract as well. English language contracts aren't binding and some of the more corrupt schools provide intentionally bad and unfaithful translations. If you're inclined to accept the job with the smaller school, make sure you review the Korean-language contract first. If you can't read Korean, then find somebody who can.

With a larger hagwon, it doesn't even matter if severance pay is in the contract. Korean law requires a hagwon to pay severance if it has more than five full time employees (doesn't always apply to private elementary schools, middle schools, high schools, or universities). Just ask for severance during the last week of your contract. If they say no because it's not in the contract, then tell them that you're going to the Ministry of Labor and mean it. If they believe you're serious, then you'll have your severance pay by the end of the day. The same is true of a number of other benefits required under Korean law.

P.S. If you absolutely can't find somebody who can read Korean, send me a pm. I'll review the Korean contract for you if I'm not too busy. If I am too busy, I'll tell you nicely.

[prosodic]

There is one big reason why I would choose school number 2 if I were you. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the impression that this is going to be your first time doing this. No matter how much research you do before you go, a lot of things will surprise you the first few months. Having a relatively large foreign staff gives you a better chance of finding support and advice.

[osangrl]

Marista, I came over on someone else's dime my first time and there was no problem, as long as you do your research and talk to former teachers, like i did, you should be fine.
Sure there are stories about people getting screwed, but way more people don't. Remember you hear the bad stuff, but rarely the good.

good luck!

[oneiros]

For a first-timer, I'd be more inclined to recommend a bigger school.

As someone mentioned above, small schools don't have to follow the same labour laws as the bigger ones. Bigger schools have a better tendency to not go bankrupt, and they've generally got more organized in the way of resources and curriculum. You've also got more of a support structure in place with the other teachers.

Of course, I did have a bad experience with a small school, so I am decidedly biased.

[marista99]

I should clarify that the school in Incheon is owned AND managed by an American and his Korean wife. Don't know if that makes a difference.

[oneiros]