Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Son Deureo!]

Damn swear filter made me sound like a big perv!

Those *beep*s are supposed to be "cocktails". There was a bar in the apartment complex I used to live in that was ideal. No funny business going on (that I knew of anyway). Just a lot of excess barmaids (mostly college students) whose job was to chat up the customers.

[tomato]

Hello, Son Deureo!

[jurassic5]

[Swiss James]

[nev]

[TheUrbanMyth]

[tomato]

Here is a very good article which someone linked on another thread:

http://www.stanford.edu/~donhkim/es3.html

The article is entitled "On Liberty, Equality, Fraternity," and it is by an overseas Korean student named Don H. Kim.
Because of his message, everything is fitting together which never fit together before. It answers many questions which have been puzzling me for years.

I don't mean to put words in Mr. Kim's mouth, but his discussion of Korean cooperativism makes many Korean beliefs apparent to me.

Let me summarize those beliefs:

If it can't be supplied by an institution, it's not valuable.

I once asked a Korean doctor, "What sort of exercise do you think I should do?"

He said, "We don't have exercise facilities here at the clinic."

I said, "What sort of exercise do you think I should do by myself?"

I repeated the question a few more times, but he still didn't understand.

There is no need for teacher accountability or school accountability.

Every once in a while, someone writes to this forum, saying something like "Help! I'm new here and the students in my school aren't learning poodle-de-doo! Someday the parents will wake up and realize this! They'll get together and close the school down! What am I going to do?"

I write back, saying, "Relax. When I came here, I was afraid of the same thing, but it never happened. If parents looked for results, we would have schools closing down left and right."

Why this blind faith in English schools? Because English schools have classes! Classes are groups and groups are good!

There is no point in practicing English outside the classroom.

It has always amazed me that this country abounds with English students of all ages, all levels of education, and all socioeconomic levels, yet we never hear these students breathe a word of English to each other.

It has also amazed me that Korean parents pour so much money into English schools but don't lift a finger to help their children learn English. My contention has always been that these parents should speak English to their children as much as possible. If they merely turned all their �̸� ��'s into "Come here"'s, that would help considerably.

Shall we suggest, then, that English students and English school mommies practice English? Oh, no! The place for learning is in the classroom!

There is no point in speaking English spontaneously in the classroom.
English students are assembled for one purpose only, and that is to pay homage and reverence to the author of the textbook. Anything which the author puts down in the textbook is sacred. To add, subtract, or alter those words is blasphemy.

Never say, "Good afternoon, class" in English unless it's in the textbook.
Never say, "Turn to page 37" in English unless it's in the textbook.
Never say, "Johnny, stop pulling Suzie's hair" in English unless it's in the textbook.

Or adding picture books, songs, games, or other ideas in the class? That's worth being excommunicated!

You can't learn unless someone is teaching you.

Why do Koreans speak to us in English all the time?

From the time I arrived in Korea, I have felt insulted by Koreans speaking to me in English. I have taken this as a brazen insult, because such Koreans purportedly considered themselves smarter than me.

I have ranted endlessly interminably about this, and I apologize to forum members who are hearing my story for the umpteenth time.

I have wanted to shout, "Don't you think I'm capable of learning Korean at home without a teacher?"

The Korean would probably say "No. No one is capable of learning anything without a teacher. We aren't necessarily smarter than you are, it's just that we have had classes in English and you haven't had classes in Korean."

Why are there so many �п�'s in relation to bookstores?

On every corner, we see a music studio, English school, or karate academy. And many of these schools are for adults, not just kids. So Koreans must really like to learn.

So why don't we also see a bookstore on every corner? In light of Mr. Kim's article, the answer is simple: You can learn from �п�'s, but you can't learn from books. Books don't have teachers standing over you with a stick.

Why do young people want to go to the PC��'s and spend hours upon hours fighting imaginary aliens when there are hundreds of interesting ways to learn from the Internet?

Again, the answer is simple: You can't learn from the Internet, either. The Internet doesn't have teachers standing over you with a stick.

In addition, here is something which I never noticed until today: In my 4 years in Korea, I have never seen a single advertisement for a correspondence course. Of the many customs which Korea has copied from West, this is one custom which have never copied.

And why should they? You can't learn from a correspondence course either!

All foreigners are alike.

I have tried to tell Koreans that stereotyping foreigners is a sign of prejudice, and prejudice is evil. I never got very far with this, because good and evil are matters of opinion.

The Koreans are probably thinking, "We also say that all Koreans are alike. What's the difference?

In conclusion, here is one question which Mr. Kim probably should have discussed: how did Korea come to put a higher priority on the group than on the individual? Surely all the citizens did not get up one morning and say, "Let's push cooperation and suppress the individual."

This is probably because Korea had a rural past. The United States did too, but not for nearly as long.

Probably in every country in the world, rural people are more cooperative
than urban people and urban people are more individualistic than rural people. You need one attitude to survive in the country, you need the other attitude to survive in the city.

It is no wonder, then, that Korean citizens tend to apply a cooperative attitude in places where an individualist attitude might work better.

[dogbert]

Let's see, on the one hand you criticize Korean students of English for not practicing English outside the classroom, yet on the other, you criticize them for trying to practice English by speaking to you outside the classroom.

Seems to me that you, as a native speaker, offer a better chance to practice their English with than their mommies.

By the way, Koreans do quite often take structured classes over the Internet and through cable television; both fora can be seen as the modern counterparts of yesteryear's correspondence courses.

[nev]

Suddenly, it seems this thread is lurching towards a more general criticism of Korea, beyond just the fact many of them try to speak to us in English. Korea, as are all nations, is imperfect, but is going in the right direction. However, being a different culture they have different approaches to many things, some which don't appeal to Westerners (as some of our customs don't appeal to them - I'm sure there's a Korean is America or Britain right now horrified that we walk right into our homes with our shoes on).

Recently, here are some Koreans who have spoken to me:

- I had a fun conversation with a taxi driver last night. From the outset he spoke to me in Korean, and persisted through my enthusiastic but very patchy efforts. Only at the end of the journey did he say "thank-you" to me in English. This is not atypical.

- In Burger King yesterday (not a usual port of call) I requested my order in Korean. In Korean, the assistant asked if I wanted a big or small coke. Only when my listening translation was patently too slow did he repeat the request in English.

- In the English language section of Kyobo, the assistant asked if I wanted a bag, in English. I was not surprised and did not get irate.

- I have a private I do for free providing it can be done in equal English and Korean. On Saturday, my student stopped me and started speaking in Korean because she felt too much English was being spoken.

All over Korea, Koreans are learning English. What for?

I have spent time also in Turkey and Egypt. I was repeatedly approached in English, far more than in Korea.. Tomato, I suggest you do not go to these countries.

[yangban]

[yangban]

[yangban]